IBT 1108 Attempts to take NJASAP funds

[Grizz]

Deleted.

 

[gunfyter]

Any chance it was a mistake and they thought the money belonged to FLOPS pilots?

I mean they were depositing into 1108 accounts not their own personal accounts right?

 

[CA1900]

Any chance it was a mistake and they thought the money belonged to FLOPS pilots?

No chance at all, no.

 

[netjetwife]

And I'll be first in line holding the piano wire. That said, if this is a misrepresentation of facts, and someone is being a tool used to spread FUD for whatever reason, then they'll get the wire. Either way, it's criminal.:angryfire

Unfortunately, it is true... Flt Ops pilots need and deserve leaders with integrity and strength so I agree that a recall is in order. It is imperative that you have leaders you can trust and obviously that is not currently the case with the two mentioned. In looking for a silver lining, I think that replacing those involved can send a message to the company that your group doesn't condone unethical and/or illegal behavior, nor will you be distracted from your pursuit of a fair contract. Options pilots are the 1108 Union Local--not Bill Moore and not the MEC. That gives you the right to insist on leadership that reflects your professionalism and works to meet your goals in a responsible manner.

As a general observation, in our society there is a wide range of behavior from ethical to criminal so it should surprise none of us that we see the same thing among the thousands of people involved in the fractional industry and the IBT representatives that interact with them. That said, I do believe that if the ethical, fair-minded majority bands together and insists that the right thing is done they will usually prevail in the end. The FltOps pilot group has my sympathy as you deal with this mess.
Best Wishes!
NJW

 

[vref25]

As a person who was there, it is true.

The rocket scientist

 

[ProFracPilot]

We're awaiting a response from our leadership.

While we wait with baded breath, is the accusation being made that certain individuals committed fraud and embezzeld from the local for personal gain? Or do the folks who conducted this "investigation" believe the IBT instructed local leadership to conduct business in such a way that it placed them in a precarious position?

Given the spotlight that has existed during the trasition of NJA pilots from 1108 to NJASAP, I'm having a hard time believing that safeguards were not in place to prevent any type of financial shenannigans during the transition.

 

[vref25]

The safeguards are Bank rules requiring someone on the cards authorizing someone else. But when you come into the bank proclaiming you are the 1108 president on Tuesday, with illegal trusteeship paperwork from Jimmy "the crook" Hoffa provided by Bill Moore, things can get squirrely.. One bank froze the account, the other made the change then realized the error and changed it back. As for the motive, that's for them to decide what story they will tell. But its a simple fact, the IBT, the ex 1108 employee, and 2 Options pilots knew what they were doing. You cannot just happen to fall into a bank trying to change the account and lock the people that were authorized on the account by accident.

So FO pilots have two Brutus's and one crooked book keeper that only has loyalties to Bill Moore and IBT international in DC, so be careful and demand accountability.


The rocket scientist.

 

[netjetwife]

RS, thanks for all your hard work while my family was driving home from CMH. The kids and I enjoyed meeting some of the NJ folks and part of the NJASAP office staff. I'm sorry we didn't get to meet you, too.
NJW

 

[steelersrule74]

good intentions do not excuse illegal behavior. any defense that starts with "i'm protecting my membership" is not sufficient. Just because someone from washington says a local is in trusteeship doesn't make it so. going to a bank to create new accounts and purposely leave the president and secretary treasurer of the local off the accounts should give anyone pause to think. taking a check of NJA dues money made out to local 1108 and depositing it into an account different from the intended designation is illegal. I'm sure there will be much justification attempted, but federal law was broken.

Now the repercussions. because of said illegal act that was instigated by the IBT, local 1108 will most likely be put into trusteeship for real. What does that mean? it means the money (7 figures worth) that was left to FLOPS will now be controlled by washington. the money FLOPS pilots were going to use to finish their contract will not be in their control. They have handed the books to an outside party.

tragic is not big enough a word...............Protecting the members?, i think not.

 

[skyismyoffice]

Can we change the title of this thread??

Two FLOPS mec members went around columbus and set up several bank accounts with forged IBT 1108 documents. They then IBT deposits the check from IBT1108 to NJASAP into these accounts. This check was the agreed apon dues that IBT1108 owed to NJASAP. The FLOPS pilots then with drew the money in the form of cashiers checks, NJASAP money! Also they and the IBT coluded with the 1108 accountant to pay all FLOPS union bills but none of the bills for the NJA pilots since April.

Thanks to all the hard working NJA union volunteers who stopped this illegal activity. Maybe the FLOPS pilots and the IBT will be a perfect match.


Those two FLOPS pilots are now the new President of 1108 and the new Sec. Treasurer.

I sure hope this isn't true but it seems that many reputable posters are corroberating the story. If it is true it was done without the knowledge or support of the FLOPs pilots! Don't accuse the FLOPs pilots of being criminals we have nothing but appreciation and respect for all that the Net Jets pilots have done.

 

[jetwash]

Are there any official statements from NJASAP or anyone in the IBT 1108 regarding this matter?

The only information many or us are getting are bits and pieces which we are trying to put together from this thread.

More information would be appreciated.

 

[ProFracPilot]

tragic is not big enough a word

Would "setup" be big enough a word?

If we're accusing two local leaders of fraud, the evidence against them better be rock-solid.

 

[netjetwife]

We're awaiting a response from our leadership. A tap dance from a guilty person takes longer to choreograph than a straight answer from an innocent person.

While we wait with baded breath, is the accusation being made that certain individuals committed fraud and embezzeld from the local for personal gain? Just as a reminder, there are other motives besides money. Hiding a personal agenda and seeking favors from one in charge can also lead people astray. Or do the folks who conducted this "investigation" believe the IBT instructed local leadership to conduct business in such a way that it placed them in a precarious position? The agreement between the IBT, NJASAP leaders and the Options leadership made it clear how the money was to be divided and the bills from both pilotgroups were certainly expected to be paid by the terminated 1108 book keeper.

Given the spotlight that has existed during the trasition of NJA pilots from 1108 to NJASAP, I'm having a hard time believing that safeguards were not in place to prevent any type of financial shenannigans during the transition.

My family was in CMH for a tour of NJA and the Union office just before this came to light. We walked by a security guard inside the Union office lobby and saw the NJASAP Finance Director lock away his books (which kept track of the money donated by the NJA pilots for the separation costs) while we were there. NJASAP had taken precautions that I thought (at the time) were perhaps overly cautious, but alas, they were betrayed from persons they had every reasonable expectation of being able to trust.

 

[o2bflyn]

The information comes from people I trust, who saw it happen first-hand. It isn't a rumor, I assure you.

Thanks. I was just curious. You never know sometimes.

 

[CA1900]

If it is true it was done without the knowledge or support of the FLOPs pilots! Don't accuse the FLOPs pilots of being criminals...

No worries on that -- most of us already realize that, and our leadership has reminded everyone of it. What these individuals did was with the aid of Hoffa's right-hand-man and an accomplice, and nobody else.

If we're accusing two local leaders of fraud, the evidence against them better be rock-solid.

Absolutely it should -- and it is. There's no way this was done by accident; it was an underhanded ploy. Demand answers from your leadership immediately. If they're not talking to you on the day they assumed leadership of your entire local, that should be sending up a big red flag.

And steelersrule74 is right: the actions taken by your MEC, even if they were intended to help your group, will cause far more harm than that money could ever have offset. Now you guys have to divide your attention between fixing your leadership (and regaining control of your local) and the contract negotiations. It's an unwelcome distraction.

 

[netjetwife]

I second Sky's motion--Can we change the title of this thread?? As the Steelers fan and CA1900 aptly noted, both pilotgroups have been wronged.

 

[captain dad]

Yes what the FLOPS guys did is true. I have heard from people that know as well.

What I can't understand is :
1. What were their motives? Embezzlement?

2. Did they think no one would notice? How dumb do you have to be?

IBT also had a hand in this not just a couple misguided FLOPS guys.

 

[netjetwife]

The motives were probably similar to those of others who resort to unethical and/or illegal behavior to get what they want. It usually boils down to an arrogant person on a power trip stupidly fulfilling a selfish goal at the expense of innocent people. CD, don't forget the ex-1108 book-keeper who was an active and willing participant. No doubt she planned to get something (promotion etc) from the IBT in exchange for doing her part. Hopefully, she gets more than she bargained for....

 

[Pervis]

Kind of unusual for the IBT to be so transparent/stupid. Even when we were under 284, there was only the Fab 5-probably 4-who were involved with "questionable" practices, in addition to a knob known as Powell. IBT simply fired Powell when things went south. But then again, we didn't leave the IBT then. They sure looked like they cared back then though when we were really pissed.

Options folks, you will not be considered a part of these fools, except for those mentioned. I/we support you 1000%. Looks like you have your Fab 2. Makes you wonder if these tools have been paid by your management too. That's why it took us 5 years to "get er done".

I have a feeling there may be a much bigger issue for IBT here. Want to bet the US Atty Gen gets involved in this one? If they're willing to do this for $677,000, representing 2800 members, what about the other million plus members of the IBT?

 

[yosemite]

I am saddened...

I was one of the first ones big Bill called about organizing the Options pilots. I worked with him and the rest of the Options leadership for a long time and was glad to see the gentleman in question step up and take the leadership reins when Bill decided not to play any more. Last Tuesday, during a quick dash at lunch through the offices, I happened to run across him and my Options MEC counterpart. I have, for the longest time held them both in high regard and was pleased to work with them. As I left, I shook both their hands and expressed our desire to continue the relationship in the future. When I heard the news Tuesday night, I was initially shocked and thought they had been duped by the IBT national representative... it was not so.

There is no doubt that the gentleman in question was complicant with the plan from the beginning and understood fully what was going on. It was even confirmed to me today by the banker, who knew who I was from the local documents, as we discussed setting up the bank account for the NJ employee's motorcycle goup.

The harm done is inexcuseable. We gave them our trust and faith and he/they broke it. The money to complete negotiations is there and was always going to be there... $1.2 MILLION dollars of NJ pilots money that we were giving to the Options pilots when we left the local behind. Some will say part of that is Options money, but as the NJ MEC treasurer I was privy to the books and I can tell all of you Options pilots that you are not paying enough dues money to cover your expenses right now. The NJ pilots money was covering you, and helping to pay for your negotiations. Due to the probable pending trusteeship, I would guess you will have less than a third of that available to you now to complete negotiations.

It is a sad day.... it is a sad day. I am saddened because a man I liked and trusted had the nerve to smile at me and shake my hand while he knew he was stabbing all of us in the back. I am saddened because this will undoubtedly effect ALL of our Options bretheren. I am saddened because the only result I can see coming from this is a souring of the relationship between NJ pilots and our Options bretheren as long as the persons in question continue to hold office. The only advice I can offer at this point is to study your by-laws.

Regards,