IBT 1108 Attempts to take NJASAP funds

[jetwash]

Are there any official statements from NJASAP or anyone in the IBT 1108 regarding this matter?

The only information many or us are getting are bits and pieces which we are trying to put together from this thread.

More information would be appreciated.

 

[ProFracPilot]

tragic is not big enough a word

Would "setup" be big enough a word?

If we're accusing two local leaders of fraud, the evidence against them better be rock-solid.

 

[netjetwife]

We're awaiting a response from our leadership. A tap dance from a guilty person takes longer to choreograph than a straight answer from an innocent person.

While we wait with baded breath, is the accusation being made that certain individuals committed fraud and embezzeld from the local for personal gain? Just as a reminder, there are other motives besides money. Hiding a personal agenda and seeking favors from one in charge can also lead people astray. Or do the folks who conducted this "investigation" believe the IBT instructed local leadership to conduct business in such a way that it placed them in a precarious position? The agreement between the IBT, NJASAP leaders and the Options leadership made it clear how the money was to be divided and the bills from both pilotgroups were certainly expected to be paid by the terminated 1108 book keeper.

Given the spotlight that has existed during the trasition of NJA pilots from 1108 to NJASAP, I'm having a hard time believing that safeguards were not in place to prevent any type of financial shenannigans during the transition.

My family was in CMH for a tour of NJA and the Union office just before this came to light. We walked by a security guard inside the Union office lobby and saw the NJASAP Finance Director lock away his books (which kept track of the money donated by the NJA pilots for the separation costs) while we were there. NJASAP had taken precautions that I thought (at the time) were perhaps overly cautious, but alas, they were betrayed from persons they had every reasonable expectation of being able to trust.

 

[o2bflyn]

The information comes from people I trust, who saw it happen first-hand. It isn't a rumor, I assure you.

Thanks. I was just curious. You never know sometimes.

 

[CA1900]

If it is true it was done without the knowledge or support of the FLOPs pilots! Don't accuse the FLOPs pilots of being criminals...

No worries on that -- most of us already realize that, and our leadership has reminded everyone of it. What these individuals did was with the aid of Hoffa's right-hand-man and an accomplice, and nobody else.

If we're accusing two local leaders of fraud, the evidence against them better be rock-solid.

Absolutely it should -- and it is. There's no way this was done by accident; it was an underhanded ploy. Demand answers from your leadership immediately. If they're not talking to you on the day they assumed leadership of your entire local, that should be sending up a big red flag.

And steelersrule74 is right: the actions taken by your MEC, even if they were intended to help your group, will cause far more harm than that money could ever have offset. Now you guys have to divide your attention between fixing your leadership (and regaining control of your local) and the contract negotiations. It's an unwelcome distraction.

 

[netjetwife]

I second Sky's motion--Can we change the title of this thread?? As the Steelers fan and CA1900 aptly noted, both pilotgroups have been wronged.

 

[captain dad]

Yes what the FLOPS guys did is true. I have heard from people that know as well.

What I can't understand is :
1. What were their motives? Embezzlement?

2. Did they think no one would notice? How dumb do you have to be?

IBT also had a hand in this not just a couple misguided FLOPS guys.

 

[netjetwife]

The motives were probably similar to those of others who resort to unethical and/or illegal behavior to get what they want. It usually boils down to an arrogant person on a power trip stupidly fulfilling a selfish goal at the expense of innocent people. CD, don't forget the ex-1108 book-keeper who was an active and willing participant. No doubt she planned to get something (promotion etc) from the IBT in exchange for doing her part. Hopefully, she gets more than she bargained for....

 

[Pervis]

Kind of unusual for the IBT to be so transparent/stupid. Even when we were under 284, there was only the Fab 5-probably 4-who were involved with "questionable" practices, in addition to a knob known as Powell. IBT simply fired Powell when things went south. But then again, we didn't leave the IBT then. They sure looked like they cared back then though when we were really pissed.

Options folks, you will not be considered a part of these fools, except for those mentioned. I/we support you 1000%. Looks like you have your Fab 2. Makes you wonder if these tools have been paid by your management too. That's why it took us 5 years to "get er done".

I have a feeling there may be a much bigger issue for IBT here. Want to bet the US Atty Gen gets involved in this one? If they're willing to do this for $677,000, representing 2800 members, what about the other million plus members of the IBT?

 

[yosemite]

I am saddened...

I was one of the first ones big Bill called about organizing the Options pilots. I worked with him and the rest of the Options leadership for a long time and was glad to see the gentleman in question step up and take the leadership reins when Bill decided not to play any more. Last Tuesday, during a quick dash at lunch through the offices, I happened to run across him and my Options MEC counterpart. I have, for the longest time held them both in high regard and was pleased to work with them. As I left, I shook both their hands and expressed our desire to continue the relationship in the future. When I heard the news Tuesday night, I was initially shocked and thought they had been duped by the IBT national representative... it was not so.

There is no doubt that the gentleman in question was complicant with the plan from the beginning and understood fully what was going on. It was even confirmed to me today by the banker, who knew who I was from the local documents, as we discussed setting up the bank account for the NJ employee's motorcycle goup.

The harm done is inexcuseable. We gave them our trust and faith and he/they broke it. The money to complete negotiations is there and was always going to be there... $1.2 MILLION dollars of NJ pilots money that we were giving to the Options pilots when we left the local behind. Some will say part of that is Options money, but as the NJ MEC treasurer I was privy to the books and I can tell all of you Options pilots that you are not paying enough dues money to cover your expenses right now. The NJ pilots money was covering you, and helping to pay for your negotiations. Due to the probable pending trusteeship, I would guess you will have less than a third of that available to you now to complete negotiations.

It is a sad day.... it is a sad day. I am saddened because a man I liked and trusted had the nerve to smile at me and shake my hand while he knew he was stabbing all of us in the back. I am saddened because this will undoubtedly effect ALL of our Options bretheren. I am saddened because the only result I can see coming from this is a souring of the relationship between NJ pilots and our Options bretheren as long as the persons in question continue to hold office. The only advice I can offer at this point is to study your by-laws.

Regards,

 

[FRLWD]

Two FLOPS mec members went around columbus and set up several bank accounts with forged IBT 1108 documents. They then IBT deposits the check from IBT1108 to NJASAP into these accounts. This check was the agreed apon dues that IBT1108 owed to NJASAP. The FLOPS pilots then with drew the money in the form of cashiers checks, NJASAP money! Also they and the IBT coluded with the 1108 accountant to pay all FLOPS union bills but none of the bills for the NJA pilots since April.

Thanks to all the hard working NJA union volunteers who stopped this illegal activity. Maybe the FLOPS pilots and the IBT will be a perfect match.


Those two FLOPS pilots are now the new President of 1108 and the new Sec. Treasurer.

There are always two sides to every story. There is way more to this story than what you are presenting here.

By the way, your spelling and grammar is atrocious.

 

[Some guy]

There is way more to this story than what you are presenting here.

I don't typically speak for everyone, but we are all ears.

SG

 

[vref25]

I was there and looked them in the eye... Even gave them some free advice when the truth came out on Tuesday late afternoon. They did not take it. Choices were made, and rather bad ones.

 

[netjetwife]

I agree that there is more, but unfortunately, it makes the two FltOps pilots in leadership look worse--not better. I had previously exchanged PMs with one of them and was told that he was proud of the way the Options pilots were handling the split. Too bad the same can't be said of him... FRLWD, I have followed the debacle closely, hoping those two pilots hadn't betrayed the trust both groups had in them. Suffice it to say, that if they cared anything about your group, they'd step down with an apology for the embarrassment and harm their unethical conduct has caused.

 

[glasspilot]

By the way, your spelling and grammar is atrocious.

Yeah, sorry guys. I'm not at NetJets or FLOPS and am having a hard time figuring out what happened.

Could someone in the know, and there seems to be plenty of you, please post what facts are known using real words structured in such a way that makes sense?

Thanks,

interested bystander.

 

[William Holiday]

Is it at all possible, that we all have the facts wrong.
That this was the agreed way in which this transaction was to happen. That these funds were alocated at a earlier time???

That due some unknow constraints, on the funds, this was the only legal way to handle the said transaction.

Anyone??????

 

[nomore]

I know their names

So you guys are calling two of my friends thieves? I love a kangaroo court. I'd name names here but the moderators always delete them, but we know who you are talking about. And to bring this up at this time is detrimental to our negotiations. Do you think that these guys would not return any money due after proper accounting procedures are employed? I'm disappointed too. Disappointed that this was aired at this time. It seems a little funny to me that accusations where thrown so quickly. You know the best defense is a good offense. In fact I have it on good authority that the funds have been returned. I support my MEC and for this thread to take on such a life in such a big hurry will in no way take away from that support. NJASAP I wish you all the best and thank you for all you've done in the past for us, but now we go our own way, and frankly we'll be just fine without you.

 

[CA1900]

So you guys are calling two of my friends thieves?

We're not calling anyone anything. We're stating the facts of what happened this week. We thought they were our friends, too -- right up to the point where they stabbed us in the back.

Do you think that these guys would not return any money due after proper accounting procedures are employed?

What are "proper accounting procedures" for forging documents and emptying bank accounts under false pretenses?

I'm disappointed too. Disappointed that this was aired at this time. It seems a little funny to me that accusations where thrown so quickly. You know the best defense is a good offense.

Who would NJA guys be "on the offense" toward? The end result we desired was to have our own union. In the process, we wanted to leave FlightOptions' pilots a functional local, complete with over a million bucks of our money, to finish your contract up. Instead, we got a betrayal of the worst order.

In fact I have it on good authority that the funds have been returned.

Thanks to stop-payment orders, sure they were.

NJASAP I wish you all the best and thank you for all you've done in the past for us, but now we go our own way, and frankly we'll be just fine without you.

Fine. Please return the $1.2 Million gift, and have at it. We're not asking for kudos, but we expect the agreement we made with 1108 to be honored. Stealing the cash out of our wallet on our way out the door is not a good start.

 

[Semore Butts]

Please don't start down this path.

Nomore said;

"frankly we'll be just fine without you".

I hope so....

Lets not get an attitude though.

We don't deserve that from you.

1900;

Take it easy, give these guys a break, they have alot to take in right now.

Regarding this thread;

FLOPS Pilots didn't steal anything from us,

Allegedly, the act was commited by a few individuals.

What has occurred will come out in time.

Good luck to all of us.

 

[netjetwife]

Is it at all possible, that we all have the facts wrong. Sorry, no.
That this was the agreed way in which this transaction was to happen. There's no mistake or confusion. It was a clear violation of the agreement and of honest book-keeping. That these funds were alocated at a earlier time??? They were allocated earlier in an agreement between 1108, NJASAP, and the IBT. The funds in question were set aside for the NJ pilotgroup and to the people they owed for operating expenses. That's why it was easy to get a stop-payment order and cooperation from the bank.

That due some unknow constraints, on the funds, this was the only legal way to handle the said transaction. Anyone??????

Because of my husband's leadership role, I had a good understanding of how the transition was to occur. This was not it. My husband works closely with Vref25 whose report is 100% accurate.

 

[400pilot]

What are "proper accounting procedures" for forging documents and emptying bank accounts under false pretenses?

What was forged?

 

[nomore]

Ok

Seemore you're right you don't deserve an attitude from the likes of me. And I didn't mean it that way. I think it's good we have to stand alone now. Too many Option pilots in the past sat back and waited for you guys to do all the work for us, and now we either make it or we don't and can't blame anyone but ourselves for the outcome. That's what I meant.

I just have to say I don't like my friends and trusted leaders accused of being thieves on this anonymous public board. I know both the gentlemen referred to and both have diligently and with great personal sacrifice, looked out for the best interests of the Flight Options pilots. I think the NJ pilots did the right thing for themselves by departing the IBT, but it's not the right thing for us. Was the separation agreement violated? That's not for me to say since I don't have all that info but calling for my friends and trusted leadership to be recalled on this public board is not the way our pilot family should go about fixing this issue. This thread should never have been started and by doing so it not only attempts to undermine the credibility of our elected leaders it calls into question the motivation of the starter of this thread. I think both pilot groups have many roads to walk down together still and this would have been better handled in a quieter way.
I know Flight Options management reads this board and I just want to tell them Capt S. and Capt M. and all our elected leadership and negotiating team have my full and unwavering support. I just hope this rift gets fixed quickly and in a mutually satisfying way and we can get back to the business we are supposed to be doing. Working hard for good jobs with good pay for fractional pilots.

 

[netjetwife]

... And to bring this up at this time is detrimental to our negotiations. I agree that it's the last thing the Options pilots needed, but please place blame accordingly. The actions of a few caused this situation--not reports of their wrongdoing. ....It seems a little funny to me that accusations where thrown so quickly. Information was shared in a timely manner after the situation was rectified. Responsible leaders do that. You know the best defense is a good offense. NJASAP is the directly wronged party and the Options pilotgroup indirectly. In fact I have it on good authority that the funds have been returned. Recovered, yes. Thanks to the diligence of NJASAP leaders and cooperation from those who ordered a stop-payment, the under-handed scheme was foiled. I support my MEC and for this thread to take on such a life in such a big hurry will in no way take away from that support. It's my hope that the other leaders are deserving of your loyalty and that your group will gain strength from holding its leadership accountable just as the NJA pilots did when they were let down by their Fab 5. NJASAP I wish you all the best and thank you for all you've done in the past for us, but now we go our own way, and frankly we'll be just fine without you.

I echo Semore's post with this added comment, could someone hand the 52 NJA pilots who voted for the IBT a box of napkins. They have egg dripping off of their faces and a lot of crow to eat.

 

[Freedom]

I'm leaving the Party (IBT 1108), and I'm taking my Toys with me....

First of all, I will be the first to admit that the Flight Options Pilots would NEVER be where they are today in the Negotiating Process, if it wasn't for the assistance of our NetJets Brothers and Sisters. So for that, let me express my deepest thanks.

However, any monies placed into the IBT 1108 accounts, no matter who that money may have come from, LEGALLY belongs to the Members of the IBT 1108. If you leave the IBT 1108, you don't get to bring your Toys (Money) with you, to pay the bills of your new organization, unless the Members of the IBT 1108 say you can.

The Minute, check that, the Second the NetJets Pilots elected to leave the IBT1108, the New President and New Treasurer of the IBT 1108, both Flight Options Pilots, had an absolute obligation to the remaining members of the IBT 1108 to take control over ALL IBT 1108 funds.

But just like in a Divorce, even if you still like eachother, the Party remaining after the other one leaves, had better listen to his or her Attorney, or that innocent Party who remains, might one day wake to discover, that the Funds they thought would be remaining in the Households Accounts, the accounts that keep not just the Leadership Protected via legal council, but all of the Leaderships' Dependents Fed (The Flight Options Pilots), might no longer be there.

I'm truly sorry if there have been feelings hurt by the RESPONSIBLE actions of MY President and MY Treasurer as a remaining member of the IBT 1108, but just because Daddy left the house to hang out with his "Trade in for a New Model Wife," does not mean those remaining, should just blindly leave the Bank Accounts open for the Husband who is leaving to use as he sees fit.

The Wife being left behind's Attorney was indeed the International Brotherhood of Teamsters National Presidents' Office. They provided SOUND legal council, without the clouding of emotion, to make sure those still in the IBT 1108, control IBT 1108 funds, regardless of who earned those funds.

There is nothing to say that agreed upon amounts from IBT 1108 accounts could not still be used to help the NetJets Pilots make their transition to their New Representational structure. But it will be with the IBT 1108 Members controlling those funds, not Former Members who now belong to a different organization, and have left the IBT 1108 behind.

Freedom is Not Free

 

[gunfyter]

The Minute, check that, the Second the NetJets Pilots elected to leave the IBT1108, the New President and New Treasurer of the IBT 1108, both Flight Options Pilots, had an absolute obligation to the remaining members of the IBT 1108 to take control over ALL IBT 1108 funds.

Uhhh... The Netjets pilots had not left IBT1108 until today. The majority of 1108 on the 7th and the 8th of july still were Netjets pilots.... The obligation of 1108 to represent the NJA pilots was still in force on 7 and 8 July....

How were these leaders of 1108 acting on behalf of the majority of 1108 members on July, 7 and 8?

 

[yosemite]

...
The Minute, check that, the Second the NetJets Pilots elected to leave the IBT1108, the New President and New Treasurer of the IBT 1108, both Flight Options Pilots, had an absolute obligation to the remaining members of the IBT 1108 to take control over ALL IBT 1108 funds.

The fact they did not do so immediately, shows they were placing a certain amount of Trust in their former Brothers and Sisters.
...
Freedom is Not Free

Hey Freedom,

Per the transition agreement between IBT Local 1108, the IBT International, and NJASAP the transition was to occur at 0000 hours EDT on July 11, 2008.

Your boy went into the bank on Monday with the IBT International representative, started up checking accounts while falsely represening himself as the the President of Local 1108, presented falsified trusteeship papers, and deposited a check that had been STOLEN from the local.

Not quite "did not do so immediately" in any informed persons book. More like 3.5 days in advance.

It was theft, plain and simple. That is how the Gahanna police and the banker see it.

Do the smart thing... stop defending him and start reading your bylaws.

 

[jetwash]

Per the transition agreement between IBT Local 1108, the IBT International, and NJASAP the transition was to occur at 0000 hours EDT on July 11, 2008.

Is there anyway of having someone post the agreement so we can all read it.

 

[Freedom]

Actually, that's a pretty funny statement:

Hey Freedom,

Per the transition agreement between IBT Local 1108, the IBT International, and NJASAP the transition was to occur at 0000 hours EDT on July 11, 2008.

Your boy went into the bank on Monday with the IBT International representative, started up checking accounts while falsely represening himself as the the President of Local 1108, presented falsified trusteeship papers, and deposited a check that had been STOLEN from the local.

Not quite "did not do so immediately" in any informed persons book. More like 3.5 days in advance.

It was theft, plain and simple. That is how the Gahanna police and the banker see it.

Do the smart thing... stop defending him and start reading your bylaws.

Since the "Theft" you are accusing My President and My Treasurer of is a criminal act, I expect that My President, who I just spoke to happily greeting his wife at the door, would expect to be Arrested shortly? Funny. He sure didn't sound too worried about such a thing to me.

Tell you what. When you find out My President has been Charged with an Actual Crime (which is far from being convicted), then you can spout off at the mouth about "My Boy" without me coming to his defense.

Do you really believe for half a second that the Teamsters National President's Office would send down their Representative from DC to organize this activity without first having run every step by their Attorneys?

I understand why you are upset. You are upset because you believe most of the money in the Accounts are there due to the earnings of NetJets Pilots, that you should have had more control over those funds before you left the organization.

Problem is, the minute those Funds entered the IBT 1108, they were no longer the Funds of the NetJets Pilots, they were the Funds of the IBT 1108.

Your Pilot Group chose to leave the IBT 1108. No one forced you to. And now you are unhappy because you did not get to take all your Toys (or as many as you would have liked) with you?

Grow Up.

Freedom is Not Free

 

[steelersrule74]

The Minute, check that, the Second the NetJets Pilots elected to leave the IBT1108, the New President and New Treasurer of the IBT 1108, both Flight Options Pilots, had an absolute obligation to the remaining members of the IBT 1108 to take control over ALL IBT 1108 funds.

Respectfully, that is not entirely accurate. I would argue that members of the Local 1108 executive board had a legal and moral obligation to abide by the separation agreement. There is no obligation to any member that justifies illegal activity. And make no mistake, there was a legal duly-elected executive board involving both pilot groups until midnight on thursday. Prior to that moment, no member of the board had any right nor obligation to work in secrecy, without transparency and in direct conflict with a negotiated agreement.

Now, the netjets pilots have left the teamsters because it became apparent they were only interested in our money and nothing else. Their personal representative whispered in the ears of 2 of your own. He used FUD to convince them breaking the law was in their best interests. Oh the stories he must have spun about those evil netjets pilots. Regrettably, they bought into it.

As I indicated before, this is a very dangerous choice for the FLOPS pilots. If the reason NJA left the teamsters is because they only care about the money - the last thing 1108 should do is give BM or washington control. I sincerely hope for the pilots of FLOPS that you are not in trusteeship. The netjets pilots left 1108 and FLOPS with a fully functioning local, a legally elected executive board and 1.2 million in the bank. All we needed to leave was a loan that will be paid back over 12 months to keep ourselves in business. The decisions made this week are so foolish that it is beyond words. As i said before, tragic........

 

[Fozzy]

Do you really believe for half a second that the Teamsters National President's Office would send down their Representative from DC to organize this activity without first having run every step by their Attorneys?

No I imagine that the attorneys worked overtime on this one. They are crooks. Hey look, they are about to steal the 1.2 left at 1108 for you guys to get er done. My guess is you will see less than half of that.

Who you associate with defines you. I think you may want to find new friends. Because unlike Law and Order, investigations take more than an hour.

We got our money owed us, we are on our own. This little play will cost IBT more money than they will ever know. Oh well.