Hypocrisy at its finest

[VABB]

I guess because I don't sit around and count numbers on the seniority list it does'nt bother me. It goes along with the big airplane, international thing that I really don't think about either.

Snake is that you?

No it's not Snake.

Not if, but when, harder times fall on AirTran, those seniority numbers are going to a bigger deal to you.

If, for some reason AirTran hits financial hardship due to a recession, increased competition, or some other combination of factors that always hit the airlines, look out.

If that causes AirTran to park some airplanes and subsequently displace and furlough crews, those 80 numbers could be the difference between you being a "highly paid" AirTran captain and being an FO for $79/hour. Worse yet, it could very well mean the difference between you hanging on to the bottom or ending up on the street. How would you feel if you took a paycut because of 80 numbers? How would a smaller paycheck because of some SCABS make you feel?

I know, I know. "Not AirTran, it would never happen here. We're like the new generation of UAL's, AMR's, NWA's, etc, etc. We're immune to bad things and we all make 100 grand a year."

If you guys would stop congratulating yourselves on being the next generation of major airlines and commit yourselves to striving to be like the old generation airlines, your fo's would be making 100 grand a year and your captains would be making 150 grand a year; WITHOUT WH*RING YOURSELVES OUT ON YOUR DAYS OFF to make that much.

Keep lowering the bar, the rest of the industry is counting on you.

 

[fletch717]

if if if

If worms had guns birds would'nt f**k with them. We can "what if" all day, I guess I'll deal with whatever happens when it happens. Until then I'l just keep on doing my thing.

For the last time I have never said AirTran was Immune to hard times or that we are the best out there. We are doing well and expanding in a very difficult enviroment. I hope we continue to do well because I love my job, I guess I don't relate to the sense of entitlement you feel that you deserve just because you work for xyz.

For the record I have 16 days off and 93 hours of pay. Thats pay not actual flying. I don't intend on working my days off.

Vabb if you feel that you deserve so much more, why don't you get out there and get it? That has always worked for me.

 

[FN FAL]

I know Ty, probably better now since he's been swinging in the crew room...

From what I hear, some people are never the same after their first probation.

 

[VABB]

As far as the pay thing goes, If you understand how we get paid. We make a very respectable wage (Me, 6th year capt will earn right at 150,000 plus 10 1/2% to my B fund which is not endanger of disappearing. And 14-17 days off per month)

Fletch,
sit back, because you are about to be humbled.

Source: airlinepilotcentral.com

6th year AirTran captain is making $124/hr with a 70 hour per month guarantee.

$124*70 = $8,680.00/month. $8,680.00*12 = $104,160.00 as 6th yr. guarantee.

You claim $150,000.00/yr in your 6th year. You need to fly $45,840.00 worth of extra flying to make your $150,000.00. Oh yeah, I forgot. You are also going to have 14-17 days off per month.

Just for the benefit of the doubt, lets say you earn an extra $1,000.00 per month for per diem, extra trip credit, etc. That would still leave you with $33,840.00 to fly just to get you to the $150,000.00 you claim AirTran is going to reward you with. Oh yeah, plus the 14-17 days off per year.

Well fletch, kiss your 14-17 days off per month good-bye. For you to earn $150,000.00 as a 6th year captain, you will probably have 14-17 days off the entire YEAR. Hmmm, what a bargain.

From the same website, here is what Southwest pays a 6th captain.

$170.00/hr with a 78 hour guarantee.

$170.00*78 = $13,260.00/month. $13,260*12 = $159,120.00 in a year.

Wow Fletch, did you see that?!?!? A 6th year SWA captain is going to make $159,120.00 without even leaving the house!! That's $9,120.00 more than you are going to make wh&ring yourself out. I'll bet the 6th year SWA captain will be really enjoying his 14-17 days off per month.

I know, you're going to tell us all how a SWA guy flies more legs in one day than you do. He also has more days off than you for the same amount of money.

Here's a couple more.

6th year 737 captain at American: $151.00/hr on a 64 hour guarantee. That equates to $115,968.00/yr, or $11,808.00 more than your guarantee.

6th year 737 captain at Continental: $137.00/hr on a 72 hour guarantee. That equates to $118,368.00/yr, or $14,208.00 more than your guarantee.

Fletch dude, you are getting jipped. You need to at least apply to SWA and try to get a job over there. That's the only way you are going to make $150,000+ as a 6th year captain AND have 14-17 days off a month.

Good luck staying awake on the job.

 

[VABB]

if if if


For the record I have 16 days off and 93 hours of pay. Thats pay not actual flying. I don't intend on working my days off.

Vabb if you feel that you deserve so much more, why don't you get out there and get it? That has always worked for me.

So basically, you are spreading 93 hours into 14 days, and it's not all actual flying. What is it then, sitting in the hotel or the airport all day??

You're flying your arse off dude. AirTran is one of the last places to pay their guys 93 hours for working 14 days out of the month.

 

[AlbieF15]

Fletch,

Remember...you don't work at a Legacy so you have no right to enjoy your job. Why don't you just wake up and smell the coffee. Just like me....I work with great people, fly neat planes to neat places, but heck...I'm just a freight dog, right? Maybe AA will re-open their app window in a few years and we can finally move on to a better operation. FWIW...I've helped a whole bunch of legacy guys get ready for interviews at jetBlue, Southwest, and FedEx, and I don't see any of them pining for "what might have been..."

AirTran will survive as long as the website is the easiest in the industry to book tickets on (it is in my opinion), it has the nicest business class and easiest upgrades (again...my opinion) and remembers to take care of its customers. My biggest complaint about them is they stopped service to VPS a while back and are too scaredy cat to come land the 717 on 6k runway at PFN!

FedEx has 3% non-union. That is certainly NOT the same thing as being a SCAB, but when I go to work I chose not to let what I cannot control bother me. I don't think Ty, Fletch, or any of the Airtran guys have a darn thing to do with who was on the property before they even got there.

And one more point--the LCC's didn't destroy the legacies. Fletch and Ty didn't wake up and along with other pilots at LCC decided to try to ruin your job--in fact they wanted the same thing. The legacies squandered years of goodwill by punishing their highest value customers with ridiculous walk up fares. The internet revolution of the 90s made fare info aviailable to everyone, and suddenly travel agents and ticket offices lost a lot of pricing power. The fact that companies like JetBlue and Airtran treated even the "backpack" customer with value is why they have inspired such a loyal following. The majors are trying to catch up, and IMHO doing much better now than even 3 years ago in customer service--but for some it may be too little, too late.

 

[skykid]

You guys are responding to an idiot who has no afiliation with any airline, and is probably not even a pilot. Put him on your ignore list and quit wasting your time.

 

[Yank McCobb]

He really must be an idiot if he actually believes all those BS numbers he came up with and can't figure out how to get 93 hours credit without actually flying it. Or maybe he is just pissed because he CAN'T figure it out.

Jackass.

Oh, and I DO work for SWA and know just how much I can make by never leaving my house.

 

[-9Capt]

You're flying your arse off dude. AirTran is one of the last places to pay their guys 93 hours for working 14 days out of the month.

It's called trip and duty rigs, maybe you've heard of them? They add a lot of soft pay every month.

I just happen to have my past crewtime reports in my desk. This is my actual/credit hours for the last few months.

Apr '05......71/85
May '05.....62/93 (1 week vacation)
June '05....79/88
July '05.....72/87 (4hrs for checkride)
Aug '05.....79/86 (current projection)

After the bids are initially awarded we have the ability to swap with opentime. I usually swap out trips on my awarded line for open trips that fly less and pay more without giving up days off (usually 16-18). It's pretty easy to do
.

 

[fletch717]

Vabb, Someone once said "you should never miss an opportunity to keep your mouth shut"

For july I flew 78.02 hours got paid 102.83hours 15 days off + 515.25 per diem

our contract has many pay overrides like a major, the average line for july was 85 hours of credit which is much more than a major. instead of flying 30 hours and getting 75 hours of pay. we fly more therefore our credit is much more.

If you knew more about our contract you would be able to understand how this works.

Here's an example 1 leg to dca block 1:44 dept 2020 arr 2204 RON
1 leg to atl block 1:51 dept 1405 arr 1546

block 3:05 pay 8:00

I have a bid sort program, I have it set up for 3day trips but I want max time when I work so I set my parameters for 6+ hours a day of credit . I usually get one 4day on my line which brings my credit up.

 

[fletch717]

Vabb, you may fly a big plane and make more than I do, But I don't really care. I guess our individual ideas of success are based on the starting point. I can only guess that I grew up with less than you, so my perception of success is the sacrafice I had to endure to reach my goals. I am profoundly greatful for all that I have achieved. Maybe that is the difference between you and I.

 

[VABB]

Vabb, Someone once said "you should never miss an opportunity to keep your mouth shut"

For july I flew 78.02 hours got paid 102.83hours 15 days off + 515.25 per diem

our contract has many pay overrides like a major, the average line for july was 85 hours of credit which is much more than a major. instead of flying 30 hours and getting 75 hours of pay. we fly more therefore our credit is much more.

If you knew more about our contract you would be able to understand how this works.

Here's an example 1 leg to dca block 1:44 dept 2020 arr 2204 RON
1 leg to atl block 1:51 dept 1405 arr 1546

block 3:05 pay 8:00

I have a bid sort program, I have it set up for 3day trips but I want max time when I work so I set my parameters for 6+ hours a day of credit . I usually get one 4day on my line which brings my credit up.

This is all very nice, really. But just for the record, I don't really care what you make or how you make it.

I personally would not go through this much trouble to prove to anybody how much I make. If I chose to tell them, and they chose to think otherwise so be it. I know how much I make and it really doesen't matter what anyone else thinks.

I have never typed how much I make on this board, let alone given a breakdown about how I did it. What each one makes is his/her own business.

I get tired of people saying "I made this much", or "I make this much and have this much time off". Good, who cares? Enjoy the money and the time off and quit trying to prove to everyone how much you make. (general statement to everyone, not pointed just at you)

I saw your claim of making $150,000.00 as a 6th year captain and having 14-17 days off per month. Great, I'm very proud of you. I go to a website, pull of some numbers and offer my opinion for nothing more than kicks and giggles.

Again, I wouldn't spend one of my days off giving myself a stroke trying to prove what I make to some clown on an internet message board who I don't even know.

 

[VABB]

Vabb, you may fly a big plane and make more than I do, But I don't really care. I guess our individual ideas of success are based on the starting point. I can only guess that I grew up with less than you, so my perception of success is the sacrafice I had to endure to reach my goals. I am profoundly greatful for all that I have achieved. Maybe that is the difference between you and I.

By bragging about your 14-17 days off and your $150,000.00/yr as a 6th year captain, your humbleness and humility shine through. That's part of the reason for me bringing up the numbers and my opinions.

Do you think that the difference between you and I is that you are greatful for all that you have achieved and I am not?

Maybe, maybe not. I'll say this much: unless I'm being sarcastic, I'm not as arrogant as you to make a statement such as that against someone I don't even know. But, maybe that is just one difference between me and you, arrogance.

Again, I keep my finances to myself and am quite humble about my achievemants. Just for the record, I have acheived a lot and I am greatful. Not saying that my achievements are any better or worse than yours, just that I am greatful for them and they are greater than I ever imagined them to be. Some have asked me to tell them who I work for. I could, but they will just deny it and say I'm lying. Fine, like I said before, I know how much I make and who I report for duty with, regardless of what some clowns on an anonymous message board think.

I honestly don't care what anyone thinks.

 

[fletch717]

Vabb, The reason for posting my info was to dispute the claim that we make poverty wages. Everyone knows what we all make, generally speaking.

The only reason I posted how it was done is because you said I was wrong.

As for your attempt at humility, you posted this on 7-26-05 on the thread titled AirTran : post #36 "Just for the record, my airplane is quite larger, as is my W-2 earnings. What I make as a fourth year FO is at least as much as your top Captain's pay." According to the latest posted salary information for all airlines, that's not really a true statement.

"I keep my finances to myself and am quite humble about my achievemants." Based on the above mentioned post, that's not really a true statement either. (Not to mention that maybe you should use the spell checker before posting, Mr. Humility.)

I have serious doubts, based on your posts, about your actual position in the aviation world. But when you go to your flying job again, please say hi to the tin man for me.

 

[-9Capt]

As for your attempt at humility, you posted this on 7-26-05 on the thread titled AirTran : post #36 "Just for the record, my airplane is quite larger, as is my W-2 earnings. What I make as a fourth year FO is at least as much as your top Captain's pay." .

I love how this thread has come full circle, Vabb now being the hypocrite.


Vaab, you sound like a little kid. Now that you're proven wrong you say "oh yeah, well I didn't really care in the first place".

 

[mdf]

I love how this thread has come full circle, Vabb now being the hypocrite.

The only thing I like about this thread is your avatar! You could bounce a quarter off that chick!

 

[matchthehatch]

VABB,

Might I suggest a visit to this http://www.ajnovickgroup.com/
web site?

 

[Geronimo4497]

Who's got the ruler?

This has turned into a measuring contest. "My plane is bigger than yours......"

YIKES

Why is it that people (some, not all) seem to get miserable the further along they get in their career? Why do I know guys that have left my outfit and wish they were back, making less money, but having more fun. I don't get it, but maybe I just realize that our time on this rock is VERY finite. Have some FUN, and stop being a tool (Yes, VABB, pointing at you)

-Pilatus Pusher

 

[VABB]

Vabb, The reason for posting my info was to dispute the claim that we make poverty wages. Everyone knows what we all make, generally speaking.

The only reason I posted how it was done is because you said I was wrong.

As for your attempt at humility, you posted this on 7-26-05 on the thread titled AirTran : post #36 "Just for the record, my airplane is quite larger, as is my W-2 earnings. What I make as a fourth year FO is at least as much as your top Captain's pay." According to the latest posted salary information for all airlines, that's not really a true statement.

"I keep my finances to myself and am quite humble about my achievemants." Based on the above mentioned post, that's not really a true statement either. (Not to mention that maybe you should use the spell checker before posting, Mr. Humility.)

I have serious doubts, based on your posts, about your actual position in the aviation world. But when you go to your flying job again, please say hi to the tin man for me.

Again, I don't really care what you believe/not believe.

Actually, I do keep my finances to my self, your statement is still false. If you noticed (which you obviously didn't), I didn't post any numbers.

Your last paragraph sums up a lot about your attitude and many on this board. Again, you have no idea who I am or where I fly, but you sure have your doubts about where my position in this industry is.

Even if I told you where I fly you would still come back with some child-like comment. "Oh no you don't, I can tell by the way act here that it isn't true." Say hi to the tin-man? Clmon dude, that sounds like something you would hear on the playground.

But getting back to my original thought. Read your first sentence again. If the whole world believes you are making poverty wages, is that going to be reflected in your paycheck? Really, why give yourself a heart attack trying to prove to everybody just how much you make, unless what people think about your wages really bothers you that much. If people don't believe how much I make, it really does not matter. What they want to think and what I really make are not the same. And I'm sure as heck not going to spend all of my free time trying to prove to someone on an anonymous message board exactly what I make and how I make it.

Just like your "tin man" comment. It does not matter where you think I fly or don't fly. I don't care. I still report for duty and fly my trips, regardless of what you think. Go ahead and have your doubts. If that's what makes you happy, I'm not going to stop you.

 

[VABB]

This has turned into a measuring contest. "My plane is bigger than yours......"

YIKES

Why is it that people (some, not all) seem to get miserable the further along they get in their career? Why do I know guys that have left my outfit and wish they were back, making less money, but having more fun. I don't get it, but maybe I just realize that our time on this rock is VERY finite. Have some FUN, and stop being a tool (Yes, VABB, pointing at you)

-Pilatus Pusher

Who says I'm unhappy? I happen to be very happy and content at my airline.

By the way, I am having fun. I have never seen a group of people (-9Capt, Fletch, etc) get so wrapped around the axle so easily over the dumbest things. For all you know, I could be in a crashpad somewhere with other pilots and we all have a lot of time on our hands.