Hurray for the 1108, The RIFed are back !

[skanza]

?

On a separate note; If it is possible, I encourage any pilots that are offered their jobs back to accept the job, get your back pay and quit with no notice.

And what would that prove? Real professional advise there dude. Seems like that's sinking to "management's level of screwing people" right?

Again, typical.

 

[Freedom]

Another attempt to deflect the facts....

So, will no one here coment on the 128 non-pilots that lost thier jobs? If so, why not? I'm sure its because they think that these people were of lesser importance in the operation than pilots. My math shows 128 to be more than 70, but all 198 are still people without jobs now. But I guess they are less important because they just schedule our trips, set us up in hotels, maintain our machines, etc...? I know I'm too good to do these things because "I'm a pilot, worship me...."
Typical.

Who was it that Fired all these employees? The Flight Options Scheeringa Management or The Union Leadership?

Answer me this....

Your propoganda is becoming weaker every day.

Freedom Is Not Free

 

[Pervis]

Skanza, nothing is stopping all those non-pilot types from organizing and gaining the protections of a union. How many locals do you know of that handle more than one group? 1108 deals with the pilots. Why don't you work towards getting the other employee groups some representation? Oh I forgot-Ford and Harrison doesn't allow double dipping.

 

[EX_CV580FR8Dawg]

not to hijack this thread, but noticed in the cargo section that Gemini is filing for chpt 7. Doesn't HIG own Gemini? Should there be any cause for worry? Just a thought. I certainly hope not!

 

[skanza]

Who was it that Fired all these employees? The Flight Options Scheeringa Management or The Union Leadership?

Answer me this....

Your propoganda is becoming weaker every day.

Freedom Is Not Free

Obviously it was not the Union Leadership. But my point is that this RIF was done to afford the company the ability to survive the reduction in hrs flown and increase in redemptions and the general poor health of the economy (believe what you want there). You can't blame the Scheeringa Team for *firing* these people or credit the union leadership for not firing them. Niether situations apply here.
No propoganda here, just observations.

 

[skanza]

Skanza, nothing is stopping all those non-pilot types from organizing and gaining the protections of a union. How many locals do you know of that handle more than one group? 1108 deals with the pilots. Why don't you work towards getting the other employee groups some representation? Oh I forgot-Ford and Harrison doesn't allow double dipping.

That's assuming that a Union would absolutely prevent people from losing thier jobs. If a company is not able to keep the current number of employees due to a decrease in revenue, then a Union mandate of keeping them employed only shortens the amount of time until there is no company for anyone to work for. That's not "protection" to me, that's assisted suicide.

 

[dime line]

WOW that is all I have to say, WOW.

 

[skanza]

WOW that is all I have to say, WOW.

Please explain, jb

 

[dime line]

Just read your 2 posts, you might understand, well maybe not

 

[waka]

And what would that prove? Real professional advise there dude. Seems like that's sinking to "management's level of screwing people" right?

Again, typical.

No skanza, it wouldn't be sinking to management's level. If a pilot followed my suggestion, no one in management would have trouble paying their mortgage payment or keeping food on the table. Besides, the company would be financially better off paying back-pay than they would with the payouts on a lawsuit.

That said; Absolutely. This is war! However, I don't expect you to understand anything that has to do with standing up for oneself.

My professional advice to you is to learn the difference between a noun and a verb before you start talking about professionalism.

 

[waka]

So, will no one here coment on the 128 non-pilots that lost thier jobs? If so, why not? I'm sure its because they think that these people were of lesser importance in the operation than pilots. My math shows 128 to be more than 70, but all 198 are still people without jobs now. But I guess they are less important because they just schedule our trips, set us up in hotels, maintain our machines, etc...? I know I'm too good to do these things because "I'm a pilot, worship me...."
Typical.

Personally, I think you're a flame baiting troll but, I'll entertain your comments anyway.

You're quite presumptuous. First, there have been comments on the firing of non pilots too after black Friday. Do a thread search and see for yourself. Second. The out of seniority firing of the 70 had everything to do with management's intimidation tactics against the pilots that are, guess what? U-N-I-O-N-I-Z-E-D! The firing of OCC folks and mechanics that are not unionized is not in the hands of the unionized (there's that word again) pilot group. It has nothing to do with a sense of superiority. Not to mention, I haven't seen anyone post in the fractional forum that was a fired non pilot employee. Perhaps you should seek out those forums.

 

[skyismyoffice]

not to hijack this thread, but noticed in the cargo section that Gemini is filing for chpt 7. Doesn't HIG own Gemini? Should there be any cause for worry? Just a thought. I certainly hope not!

I wouldn't think so.

 

[EX_CV580FR8Dawg]

I wouldn't think so.

The last couple of weeks have been a pleasant surprise and hopefully it will keep trending upward!

 

[B19 Flyer]

Personally, I think you're a flame baiting troll but, I'll entertain your comments anyway.

You're quite presumptuous. First, there have been comments on the firing of non pilots too after black Friday. Do a thread search and see for yourself. Second. The out of seniority firing of the 70 had everything to do with management's intimidation tactics against the pilots that are, guess what? U-N-I-O-N-I-Z-E-D! The firing of OCC folks and mechanics that are not unionized is not in the hands of the unionized (there's that word again) pilot group. It has nothing to do with a sense of superiority. Not to mention, I haven't seen anyone post in the fractional forum that was a fired non pilot employee. Perhaps you should seek out those forums.

The firing had everything to do with the union and the high cost involved to stagnate the company because it is unable to grow and prosper during the negotiations.

 

[B19 Flyer]

No skanza, it wouldn't be sinking to management's level. If a pilot followed my suggestion, no one in management would have trouble paying their mortgage payment or keeping food on the table. Besides, the company would be financially better off paying back-pay than they would with the payouts on a lawsuit.

That said; Absolutely. This is war! However, I don't expect you to understand anything that has to do with standing up for oneself.

My professional advice to you is to learn the difference between a noun and a verb before you start talking about professionalism.

Joining a union isn't standing up for yourself. It is becoming part of a mob.

Standing up for yourself would have been finding a job that matched what you wanted, not forcing those around you to provide what you can't find elsewhere.

 

[skanza]

^^^You beat me to it B19...^^^

 

[dime line]

Whatever your twisted minds tell you, there are 70 pilots, fired due to the actions of management, and re-hired due to the actions of a UNION (mob as da19 puts it). No matter how you spin it. Those are the facts

 

[ProFracPilot]

Standing up for yourself would have been finding a job that matched what you wanted, not forcing those around you to provide what you can't find elsewhere.

Interesting. I had a job that, for many, many years exactly matched what I wanted in a flying career. I worked with great crews, serviced wonderful owners, and generally did whatever it took to get the job done. That environment was right here at Flight Options.

Then neo-management arrived with their neo-ideas. In their zeal to shrink us to profitability, they decide we could afford to lose owners. By their actions, it became obvious that customer service and job satisfaction among the employees (especially in the pilot ranks) was no longer important. Here's a synopsis of the neo-management attitude as it related to the flight department: "Fly the airplanes when and how we say to; Dont' question ridiculous, costly reposition legs; Eat the same food day in and day out, whenever (or if) we can get it to you; Don't question repeated 'Could not Ground Duplicate' or 'No Faulf Found' maintenance signoffs or multiple MEL's; Failure to comply with our mandates will result in 'productivity meetings' and possibly termination". It has been classic management by intimidation, then club the pilots into submission. Simultaneously, they were pi$$ing away good owner after good owner because neo-management deemed customer service was no longer important to our survival (ask former owners about dealing with Owners Services). "Metrics" of some kind were what became most important. "Make the numbers work". Great plan they had, that neo-management. They succeeded in destroying established business, trust among the employees, and the job that "matched what I wanted" (to use your words).

I've survived neo-management's efforts to destroy the company. We're seeing new (old) management return with a true forward looking vision to again grow Flight Options. Immediately, we're again becoming a customer service-centric organization. Not so coincidently, improving employee (specifically pilot) relations is paramount to our new management team. Thus far improvements have been made without a contract. Perhaps the 70 who were RIF'd were used by management as negotiating fodder. We'll soon know more details. The fact remains, they've all been called back because our union leadership demonstrated how wrong it was to RIF pilots in the manner they did.

Welcome back, 70. There are a few more to follow.

Management by Trust, as Mr. Ricci likes to say. I say Trust, but Verify. A CBA will set a standard and framework that this (or future) management will have to work within. Don't lose sight of this fact: The CBA being currently negotiated was brought on because neo-management breeched the trust of the pilots. As the trust is again built between the parties, the CBA will be the instrument used to hold both parties accountable.

So because of an organizing effort you would have bailed from here long ago, B19. That's fine. Many have. Many have remained (such as myself) not because we couldn't make it elsewhere but because we believed deep down that the ideals that made this a great place to work in the past would eventually return - or the doors would close. The union isn't responsible for providing a vision to the future that we've been lacking for several years. But it will take a cooperative team effort between managment and all the employees for this vision to be realized. The new (old) management understands and, I believe, embraces this fact. The pilots will partner with managment to help achieve those goals, and will do so with a CBA that both parties can live with.

 

[dime line]

You and I can understand what you wrote, but da19 and scumza will not comprehend what your saying here, not one word of it.

 

[skanza]

ProFrac, I have to say that was well said and not too pro-union in an over-bearing way. I think you're right about the vision of the new (old) management but I would add that they will probably try to achieve this in a way that there would be no need for a union.