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Hurray for the 1108, The RIFed are back !

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So, will no one here coment on the 128 non-pilots that lost thier jobs? If so, why not? I'm sure its because they think that these people were of lesser importance in the operation than pilots. My math shows 128 to be more than 70, but all 198 are still people without jobs now. But I guess they are less important because they just schedule our trips, set us up in hotels, maintain our machines, etc...? I know I'm too good to do these things because "I'm a pilot, worship me...."
Typical.

Personally, I think you're a flame baiting troll but, I'll entertain your comments anyway.

You're quite presumptuous. First, there have been comments on the firing of non pilots too after black Friday. Do a thread search and see for yourself. Second. The out of seniority firing of the 70 had everything to do with management's intimidation tactics against the pilots that are, guess what? U-N-I-O-N-I-Z-E-D! The firing of OCC folks and mechanics that are not unionized is not in the hands of the unionized (there's that word again) pilot group. It has nothing to do with a sense of superiority. Not to mention, I haven't seen anyone post in the fractional forum that was a fired non pilot employee. Perhaps you should seek out those forums.
 
Personally, I think you're a flame baiting troll but, I'll entertain your comments anyway.

You're quite presumptuous. First, there have been comments on the firing of non pilots too after black Friday. Do a thread search and see for yourself. Second. The out of seniority firing of the 70 had everything to do with management's intimidation tactics against the pilots that are, guess what? U-N-I-O-N-I-Z-E-D! The firing of OCC folks and mechanics that are not unionized is not in the hands of the unionized (there's that word again) pilot group. It has nothing to do with a sense of superiority. Not to mention, I haven't seen anyone post in the fractional forum that was a fired non pilot employee. Perhaps you should seek out those forums.

The firing had everything to do with the union and the high cost involved to stagnate the company because it is unable to grow and prosper during the negotiations.
 
No skanza, it wouldn't be sinking to management's level. If a pilot followed my suggestion, no one in management would have trouble paying their mortgage payment or keeping food on the table. Besides, the company would be financially better off paying back-pay than they would with the payouts on a lawsuit.

That said; Absolutely. This is war! However, I don't expect you to understand anything that has to do with standing up for oneself.

My professional advice to you is to learn the difference between a noun and a verb before you start talking about professionalism.

Joining a union isn't standing up for yourself. It is becoming part of a mob.

Standing up for yourself would have been finding a job that matched what you wanted, not forcing those around you to provide what you can't find elsewhere.
 
Whatever your twisted minds tell you, there are 70 pilots, fired due to the actions of management, and re-hired due to the actions of a UNION (mob as da19 puts it). No matter how you spin it. Those are the facts
 
Standing up for yourself would have been finding a job that matched what you wanted, not forcing those around you to provide what you can't find elsewhere.

Interesting. I had a job that, for many, many years exactly matched what I wanted in a flying career. I worked with great crews, serviced wonderful owners, and generally did whatever it took to get the job done. That environment was right here at Flight Options.

Then neo-management arrived with their neo-ideas. In their zeal to shrink us to profitability, they decide we could afford to lose owners. By their actions, it became obvious that customer service and job satisfaction among the employees (especially in the pilot ranks) was no longer important. Here's a synopsis of the neo-management attitude as it related to the flight department: "Fly the airplanes when and how we say to; Dont' question ridiculous, costly reposition legs; Eat the same food day in and day out, whenever (or if) we can get it to you; Don't question repeated 'Could not Ground Duplicate' or 'No Faulf Found' maintenance signoffs or multiple MEL's; Failure to comply with our mandates will result in 'productivity meetings' and possibly termination". It has been classic management by intimidation, then club the pilots into submission. Simultaneously, they were pi$$ing away good owner after good owner because neo-management deemed customer service was no longer important to our survival (ask former owners about dealing with Owners Services). "Metrics" of some kind were what became most important. "Make the numbers work". Great plan they had, that neo-management. They succeeded in destroying established business, trust among the employees, and the job that "matched what I wanted" (to use your words).

I've survived neo-management's efforts to destroy the company. We're seeing new (old) management return with a true forward looking vision to again grow Flight Options. Immediately, we're again becoming a customer service-centric organization. Not so coincidently, improving employee (specifically pilot) relations is paramount to our new management team. Thus far improvements have been made without a contract. Perhaps the 70 who were RIF'd were used by management as negotiating fodder. We'll soon know more details. The fact remains, they've all been called back because our union leadership demonstrated how wrong it was to RIF pilots in the manner they did.

Welcome back, 70. There are a few more to follow.

Management by Trust, as Mr. Ricci likes to say. I say Trust, but Verify. A CBA will set a standard and framework that this (or future) management will have to work within. Don't lose sight of this fact: The CBA being currently negotiated was brought on because neo-management breeched the trust of the pilots. As the trust is again built between the parties, the CBA will be the instrument used to hold both parties accountable.

So because of an organizing effort you would have bailed from here long ago, B19. That's fine. Many have. Many have remained (such as myself) not because we couldn't make it elsewhere but because we believed deep down that the ideals that made this a great place to work in the past would eventually return - or the doors would close. The union isn't responsible for providing a vision to the future that we've been lacking for several years. But it will take a cooperative team effort between managment and all the employees for this vision to be realized. The new (old) management understands and, I believe, embraces this fact. The pilots will partner with managment to help achieve those goals, and will do so with a CBA that both parties can live with.
 
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You and I can understand what you wrote, but da19 and scumza will not comprehend what your saying here, not one word of it.
 
ProFrac, I have to say that was well said and not too pro-union in an over-bearing way. I think you're right about the vision of the new (old) management but I would add that they will probably try to achieve this in a way that there would be no need for a union.
 
Whatever your twisted minds tell you, there are 70 pilots, fired due to the actions of management, and re-hired due to the actions of a UNION (mob as da19 puts it). No matter how you spin it. Those are the facts

No spin here. I do acknowledge that the management did "fire" these and 128 other people. But you can't completely remove the union from the equation as efforts from people like you to disrupt the operation for the union's sake most surely added to customer dissatisfaction.
Maybe that will all change now and everybody (pilots amnd oweners alike) will be happy.
 
Profracpilot, that was an excellent post. Very accurate, and insightful.

I have stayed in the shadows for the last few months for several reasons. Partly to let our leadership do their work without any more saber rattling on this web site. And also, to be honest, I just didn't care anymore what happened to Flight Options after seeing 70 of our pilots fired. Fired for doing their jobs, and at times, doing the job that others were too afraid of doing, which in turn made them a target. That could have just as easily been me. I was ready to just throw in the towel and let this place die because I just didn't care anymore. But with the new change of management and their willingness to re-float this sinking ship, I am inspired. I am inspired to go the extra mile for the passengers like we use to.

The attitude of our new management is refreshing and invigorating. I am hopeful to be apart of an unprecedented turnaround that will bring this company back to the status it once had. I will do my very best to make that happen, and I know that this new management will give us the tools to get there.

One thing that Skanza said compelled me to break my silence and put my 1 cent in (still can't afford 2). Our new management may be worthy of our trust and devotion, but if we don't learn from history, history can and usually does repeat itself. Due to the abuse we went thru the last few years, if they truly want this company to move forward, it has to be with a CBA. Rest assured they have one. likewise, we will no longer work without one.

I said my piece, and now I can go back in the shadows.
 
The firing had everything to do with the union and the high cost involved to stagnate the company because it is unable to grow and prosper during the negotiations.

high cost? puhleeze! any company expenses involved were the company uselessly squandering money at F&H. the company stopped the company from growing. the union is simply representing the pilots standing up for their rights.

of course, you wouldn't know about standing up for anything.
 
Joining a union isn't standing up for yourself. It is becoming part of a mob.

Standing up for yourself would have been finding a job that matched what you wanted, not forcing those around you to provide what you can't find elsewhere.

again, you have demonstrated that you know nothing about standing up for yourself.

nobody is forcing anything with a union. the union was voted in with a majority vote and an even larger percentage support the union. this is the United States of America and we have rights. I'm sorry that you were too much of a coward to exercise your rights in the past. now you're just an ass kissing sell-out.


like I said, you have yet to answer with anything legitimate.
 
Yes, really. I call 'em as I see 'em.

Are you "seeing" that they always seem to post within minutes of each other? ...likely to pat "themselves" on the back (have them both on ignore but see a zillion "ignored" posts with its many screen names)
 
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Profracpilot, that was an excellent post. Very accurate, and insightful. ...I said my piece, and now I can go back in the shadows.

I agree. I enjoyed both posts--yours, FC, and Pro's. Don't go too far away; it looks like things will continue to be interesting in the months ahead. I'm happy for you that your morale is increasing. Respectful treatment can work wonders! :) Now if they give you guys the professional compensation and fair work rules you deserve (by merit) things will surely turn around.
Regards, NJW
 
ProFrac, I have to say that was well said and not too pro-union in an over-bearing way. I think you're right about the vision of the new (old) management but I would add that they will probably try to achieve this in a way that there would be no need for a union.

The actions of management CREATED the NEED for a UNION. Now that one is on property, the Union is who management will need to negotiate with and hopefully resolve this managment induced situation.

I am glad to hear that the 70 will be getting their rightful jobs back. Damn good thing you had 1108 watching your back.

BEWARE: As previously stated, trust but verify. NetJets had Boisture negotiating against the pilots (with the wizard behind the curtain) then the wizard came out from behind the curtain to take credit for the turnaround and appear to be the white knight.

Has Ricci pulled the same bait and switch by leaving, having the management/Union tensions build, then come in as the FLOPS white knight?

Just beware and don't settle for less than you are worth just because of promises and new (old) faces at the table.
 
again, you have demonstrated that you know nothing about standing up for yourself.

Nobody speaks for me but me. I stand on my own and have the courage to take responsibility for my own career.

That little sticker on your flight case that says, "My union speaks for me" tells the world that you have to hide behind the skirts of a union because you are not capable of speaking for yourself.

nobody is forcing anything with a union. the union was voted in with a majority vote and an even larger percentage support the union. this is the United States of America and we have rights. I'm sorry that you were too much of a coward to exercise your rights in the past. now you're just an ass kissing sell-out.

It was not a majority vote. It was 66% of the pilots. A true majority vote would have included all of the stakeholders. That would include all the employees of the company. In that vote... the union loses. With that stated, it means that the group from within is forcing it's will on the rest of the company that doesn't want you there. If they really wanted you there, you would have had a CBA a long time ago.


like I said, you have yet to answer with anything legitimate.

You still haven't asked a legitimate question.


@@@@@@@
 
The actions of management CREATED the NEED for a UNION.

Free country. If you don't like how you are going to be treated, GO FIND ANOTHER JOB.

Now that one is on property, the Union is who management will need to negotiate with and hopefully resolve this managment induced situation.


I am glad to hear that the 70 will be getting their rightful jobs back. Damn good thing you had 1108 watching your back.

Yep, 1108 was watching their backs. 1108 knew the firings would happen as part of the negotiations process, they knew they would be offered the jobs back and they knew they would look like heros when it was all said and done.

The only back 1108 was watching was the location their foot landed on to push those pilots out the door so they could look grand in the end.


BEWARE: As previously stated, trust but verify. NetJets had Boisture negotiating against the pilots (with the wizard behind the curtain) then the wizard came out from behind the curtain to take credit for the turnaround and appear to be the white knight.

Has Ricci pulled the same bait and switch by leaving, having the management/Union tensions build, then come in as the FLOPS white knight?

Just beware and don't settle for less than you are worth just because of promises and new (old) faces at the table.


@@@@@@@@@@
 
No spin here. I do acknowledge that the management did "fire" these and 128 other people. But you can't completely remove the union from the equation as efforts from people like you to disrupt the operation for the union's sake most surely added to customer dissatisfaction.
Maybe that will all change now and everybody (pilots amnd oweners alike) will be happy.

Many posters on this thread talk about courage.

Not one of them talk about the other 128.

They haven't the courage.
 
I agree. I enjoyed both posts--yours, FC, and Pro's. Don't go too far away; it looks like things will continue to be interesting in the months ahead. I'm happy for you that your morale is increasing. Respectful treatment can work wonders! :) Now if they give you guys the professional compensation and fair work rules you deserve (by merit) things will surely turn around.
Regards, NJW


NJW, how about those 128? We all know you have NO respect for them because in your opinion as previously stated, they didn't invest properly in their careers.

Perhaps they should begin volunteering at NJ?

Maybe then they could feed their families and your husband could begin flying again like he was hired to do.

Not once have you mentioned them.

Selfish, union monger that you are....
 
Here's a fact for you.....

At the merger we had near 1000 pilots and approx. 600 support personnel...

At the end of the MS reign we had 500 pilots and about 900 + support personnel...

Maybe its just me but we had and still have way too many people working in the office. What happened with the people in CGF was inevitable....with or without the union.
 
@Nobody speaks for me but me. I stand on my own and have the courage to take responsibility for my own career.

That's why you're a lame low level manager. Your loss of your medical was a good thing for the pilot profession.

That little sticker on your flight case that says, "My union speaks for me" tells the world that you have to hide behind the skirts of a union because you are not capable of speaking for yourself.

The alternative would be what you did. To not stand for yourself and to kiss ass to your current position. I'm not surprised that you don't recognize when a group of people that realize that their sum is greater than the parts. Fact; The union has accomplished for the pilots what individuals cannot do.



It was not a majority vote. It was 66% of the pilots. A true majority vote would have included all of the stakeholders. That would include all the employees of the company. In that vote... the union loses. With that stated, it means that the group from within is forcing it's will on the rest of the company that doesn't want you there. If they really wanted you there, you would have had a CBA a long time ago.

How stupid can you be? That is the most ignorant thing you have ever said. The majority of the pilots voted for a pilot's union, moron. The pilots want a contract that would only work for the pilots. If the other groups had the solidarity to vote in a union, them more power to them. Then the unions could support each other. Until then, it is the IBT and 1108. Besides, name one airline that has a union that represents all of the rank and file positions.




You still haven't asked a legitimate question.

That is just the equivalent of a kid yelling and plugging his ears. You have been asked a multitude of legitimate and very simple questions. You just spin them into nonsense because you're a coward.....just like your friend that committed suicide.

Like I said, you have yet to answer with anything legitimate.
 
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ignore this

Are you "seeing" that they always seem to post within minutes of each other? ...likely to pat "themselves" on the back (have them both on ignore but see a zillion "ignored" posts with its many screen names)

Oh crap! You figured us (me) out! Geeze, I thought I had them fooled! I guess I was dumb to post so soon between switching usernames.
Come on, get real, fool. Oh that's right, the ignore function only lets you here one side of an arguement. Gee, that's thorough information gathering.
 
Oh crap! You figured us (me) out! Geeze, I thought I had them fooled! I guess I was dumb to post so soon between switching usernames.

Sorry. Your sarcasm doesn't sweep the facts under the rug.

Come on, get real, fool. Oh that's right, the ignore function only lets you here one side of an arguement. Gee, that's thorough information gathering.

Well, no. Because an argument would imply that there are valid points on both sides. You/B19 are trolls so, no one is missing anything (other than a laugh) if they have you on their ignore list.
 
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