How was the ATL job fair?

[pilotyip]

Bobby, should have been there in your prime when you were looking for that flying job, this weekend your timing would have been perfect. You would have walked out of there with a pilot's job.

 

[boxjockey]

None of you are taking into account that the FAA predicts a 100% growth in commercial air traffic over the next 15 years. Combine that with the massive number of approaching retirements, even if moved back five years, is still going to lead to a huge number of flying jobs.

box

 

[pilotyip]

Another believer!

 

[bobbysamd]

Kit Darby "job" "fairs"

Bobby, should have been there in your prime when you were looking for that flying job, this weekend your timing would have been perfect. You would have walked out of there with a pilot's job.

I know all about Kit Darby job fairs. As old George Bush used to say, "Been there, done that." I did go to a Kit job fair in 1993, when I was in my "prime," and, except for meeting Irv Jasinski, walked out with nothing but a lighter wallet. The lectures were all the same job-hunting stuff that I had read in Kit literature for six years.

I have a lot of respect for your opinion, but a newspaper article?? That's stretching it.....

The newspaper sources are far more reliable than Kit's hocus-pocus anytime. Further,

[T]he FAA predicts a 100% growth in commercial air traffic over the next 15 years. Combine that with the massive number of approaching retirements, even if moved back five years, is still going to lead to a huge number of flying jobs.

With all due respect, Kit has been disseminating the same palaver for eighteen years. That has been his basis all these years for his "forty thousand pilots needed" baloney.

You learn the truth about Kit's pilot shortage nonsense the moment you start sending resumes. If there was really a shortage and such a need for pilots, and recruiters having such trouble filling classes as Yip alleged, companies would be beating your doors down to interview you and send you to class. The truth is they don't. Phones hardly ever ring, if they ring at all. And, responses to your efforts are a miniscule few compared to the trees felled for the paper you sent out. That, my friends, is the truth about Kit's "pilot shortage."

 

[Dude]

Why pay for it?

I don't understand why everyone is jumping on these job fairs. Yeah, you might meet some folks but I am not going to pay $215 just to meet someone. As pilots, we are a disappointing group...........not only will we pay to work for you, we will pay you to be interviewed. Kit Darby is a baffoon.

 

[pilotyip]

Bobby 93 was a bad year for flyings jobs, kinda like 03. But 05 is the start of the great upturn. You should have been there, it would have been your turn. There is definte pilot shortage in the regionals

 

[Crossky]

Any comments positive/negative on the ATL job fair on 4-16? Any specific comments or news given on the AirTran tour on Saturday morning.

Just wanting to know how bad I should feel for missing the event due to work. I was afraid to call in sick being that half my airline might be there trying to get a job w/ AirTran.

Thanks.

My first one, it was a good event, just at least $50 too much and if Kit toned it down by half it would be about right. Needed more regional wannabe pilots, the regional booths were empty at the job fair. Pinnacle is hard up, and the turboprop regionals and cargo outfits seemed that way too. That's where this next 'boom' is going to come from. 50% of CAL and a good portion of the other majors retiring over the next decade will help some too. It's just going to take a few years to get that in effect.

AirTran's training facility tour was for job fair attendees (and their spouses) ONLY. I saw multiple 'weasels' there crashing the tour without AIR Inc. name tags, and a couple I talked to (military incidentally) volunteered to me that there were just there to go on the tour and hobnob with the AT folks, and they hadn't gone to the seminar/job fair. Not gonna pass judgement on that behaviour here and now but I was surprised to see it, what if AT took offense to it or your brass found out?

The tour itself was the bonanza of the whole job fair IMO. Maybe 15-20 AT pilots were volunteering their time to help out and hang out, and many important other folks were there. There was even a gold star attendance list to be signed, and an AT pilot testified to that effect. They gave a pep talk in their ground school classroom with refreshments and snacks. They are very confidnent of their future and put forth the company culture in a big way. Good times.

 

[b757driver]

Have to agree with Bobby and disagree with Yip.
I used to belong to FAPA before it became Air Inc and I drank gallons of the Kool Aid being dispensed. I became informed about the impending pilot shortage and how to write cover letters and behave in interviews (like I did not have a clue previously!). You know what? I NEVER got a single interview from any of those job fairs - not even the thanks, but no thanks! In the end even the "counselors" gave up on me because they, frankly, had nothing NEW to offer me. I already had an ATP, jet time, international experience etc. In other words, I was not a gullible pilot wannabe - I was a professional pilot looking for a new job and had the credentials. The ONLY thing lacking was the opportunity! I did not renew my subscription as I had literally spent thousands buying into the hype with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to show for it. Any interviews/jobs I did get were not as a result of attending any job fair or buying the "how to become an airline pilot" book. It was based on hard, old-fashioned work and persistence. No recommendations or sponsors. Heck, I did not KNOW anyone in the industry back then, so why should that automatically discount me from consideration. After all, we are all "equal opportunity" employers. Some more than others. The best statement I've heard recently is that a certain airline that now requires "sponsors" to get an interview for you are being told to only put forward buddies that are not "high risk" candidates. Talk about rich!! High risk, pleeze! The whole F*&^% industry is high risk!! I have outlived the vast majority of my former employers. They were the ones who were "high risk". Once again, only in America can a once conservative process become so diluted with diatribe and discrimination.
I've been in this business far too long to believe in statements like this. Frankly, the whole industry is becoming an old boys' network, hiring buddies with complete disregard to merit. You know the ones I'm referring to. Recall the word nepotism in the early 90s?
If you believe in any pilot shortage, then good luck to you. As a rival once said, "there is no pilot shortage, there never was one and there never will be one". Based on personal experience the past 2 decades, I'm more inclined to go with the later than the former.
I'm sure Uncle Kit was happy to have you there and ensure HE has a nice retirement package - even if you don't!

 

[bobbysamd]

"My Turn"

Apologies to the Newsweek column.

Bobby 93 was a bad year for flyings jobs, kinda like 03. But 05 is the start of the great upturn. You should have been there, it would have been your turn. There is definte pilot shortage in the regionals

Don't patronize me about "my turn," Yip. I know all about "my turn." I was there, Yip, in the latter part of 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993 and part of the time during 1994, when I was in school. I had not given up entirely until 1995. Seven years of trying, Yip. During all those years, I swallowed all of Kit's palaver about how to get hired and read Career Pilot magazine religiously. I inhaled Kit's pilot shortage exhaust fumes until I realized from my telephone's silence that there was no pilot shortage.

During 1991 especially, hiring continued. I know, because instructors from my school who were less qualified than me but were younger were getting hired by the same regionals that ignored me. Besides, what would lead you to believe that my chances would have improved two years later? My quals had not changed. The clock had not turned back. Whatever perceived deficiencies there were with me in 1993 would have still been there in 1995. In other words, as Popeye said, "I yam what I yam," or, a leopard cannot change his spots.

I know that Xjets are hiring and perhaps Pinnacle (of Gulfstream P-F-T grads), but Mesa is pooling its MAPD grads.

 

[Carl_Spackler]

but I am not going to pay $215 just to meet someone.

That is your decision. People do get interviews because they show up at these events. I think it shows a little more ambition that a resume faxed or emailed every few months.

 

[b757driver]

I think it shows a little more ambition that a resume faxed or emailed every few months.

While I don't doubt that some people might get an interview as a result of an expensive handshake, it has little to do with ambition. Hiring nowadays has VERY little to do with ambition and more with who you know and know well. That IS fact, not spin.
The fact that you went to a job fair, especially an aviation job fair, is no guarantee and the stats prove that the vast majority get all pumped up but go away empty handed. It IS an effective tool for the employer but certainly not for the candidate. Been there, done that......

 

[ThisistheDream]

PILOT SHORTAGE??? there will never will be a pilot shortage in the sense that we pilots want to think. I think the term pilot shortage for some pilots makes them think that someday FEdEX, SWA or NWA will just call them for a job since there is such a shortage of pilots. I think the term shortage should be replaced with HIRING where in realistic terms for each person hired there are 100's or 1000's that are qualifed to get that same job. Why is there a MILE long line at those Airinc. conventions?? that does not look like a pilot shortage it just shows you that there is HIRING going on for a positions where 1000's to 10,000's pilots are qualified and try to get the same one. And how much do these Airinc confernces cost? 200 Dollars? are you kidding they should be FREE if you have a pilots licences. This is just a way for Airinc and the airlines to make some extra cash and its more like a lot of cash.

 

[bobbysamd]

Showing up v. mailing it in

People do get interviews because they show up at these events. I think it shows a little more ambition that a resume faxed or emailed every few months.

My experience, above, notwithstanding, while living in Prescott, Arizona I tried to get on with StatesWest Airlines in Phoenix. Not only did I mail in resumes and updates, everytime I was in town, which was about every six weeks or so, I hand-delivered my resume with cover letter. I did this for something like two years. No response.

Moreover, Kit preached in his materials that because it is impossible for most people to apply in person that well-drafted cover letters and resumes were a necessity because the bulk of one's efforts would be done (in those days) by mail.

 

[redflyer65]

I'm with Bobby on this one. But its also a personal choice if you want to spend that kind of cash. I'll never forget 5 years ago when I called Kit about a problem I had with my driving record before putting out apps. He should have been a used car salesmen, saying things like " we have the materials and knowledge to help you with this issue, if you just sign up for full program". Yea, I signed up like a fool, and the only thing I had was a lighter wallet, and a real nice magazine every month that said the majors should be calling my house shortly because of the huge shortage.

The most amazing thing is how Kit continued the same BS after the furloughs of 9/11. One things for sure, I think he's said it for so long, he actually believes it!

 

[stb]

If you read carefully it will make sense...

The show was another confirming data point on the road to the 2007-hiring boom. 400 plus attended, a number of airlines were begging for pilots to apply for empty classes in the next two weeks. But they did not fill their classes at the show. Now the premier job places like FedEx, UPS, CAL, etc all had long lines. The smaller carriers Pinnicle, AE, Commute Air, Cogan had no lines. Plenty of jobs out there, I guess just not very good. One of the presenters said for a smaller company said if you meet the mins and did not die during the phone interview you were hired. QUOTE]

Think that says it all about hiring for the future.

What I dont understand about these job fairs is Jetblue has their apps reviewed by a computer before selection, UPS and FED Ex must have internal LOR's, nobody knows what CAL will do for their process. There is no on the spot "Can you come in for an interview next week/month"
Sounds like a bait and switch deal. AIR Inc lures pilots in with names like UPS, FedEx etc. but the only airlines hiring at the job fair are the undesirables.

 

[redflyer65]

BINGO!! We have a winner!

 

[b757driver]

Bingo, you just hit the nail on the head. Job Fairs are good for the airlines that attend, Uncle Kit and his cohorts.
For the airlines, they can get a feel for what is out there and get a pool of ready-made applicants. For Kit, it's purely a business to swell HIS coffers, not yours.
Nobody is doing this to help pilot applicants; it's not social services, it's purely business and not a particularly ethical one. Quite simply, they do not deliver what they preach. Sure there is an off-chance you might get an interview and even get hired, but I would rather make a wager in Las Vegas than pay $200 just to attend plus hotel and then an additional $50-75 application fee for a maybe. The odds of a return on my investment is far greater. Some people must have money to burn or are naieve or both.
Take a look who are actually hiring from these "job Fairs". The big boys are just jerking you around. Think about it. Why would they haveto go to a fair when they have literally thousands of hopefuls on their books and the only way in is a "personal" recommendation. You ain't got that? Well, tough luck buddy - next!

 

[bobbysamd]

Actually being hired at a job fair

Those who believe they will actually be hired at a Kit job fair are also inhaling his exhaust fumes. Think about it. Absent sim rides and written exams, one still has to be interviewed, by H.R. and, of course, by the pilot board. Unless I am dreadfully wrong and please correct me if I am, no pilot board is sitting for interviews at a job fair, nor does H.R. have the time to review hand-presented materials and actually conduct an interview. H.R. still must review resumes and applications. Then, it must conduct background checks. In other words, don't hold your breath about actually being hired at a Kit job fair. If you're lucky, you might shake hands with someone, even Kit!

 

[millhouse21]

Those who believe they will actually be hired at a Kit job fair are also inhaling his exhaust fumes. Think about it. Absent sim rides and written exams, one still has to be interviewed, by H.R. and, of course, by the pilot board. Unless I am dreadfully wrong and please correct me if I am, no pilot board is sitting for interviews at a job fair, nor does H.R. have the time to review hand-presented materials and actually conduct an interview. H.R. still must review resumes and applications. Then, it must conduct background checks. In other words, don't hold your breath about actually being hired at a Kit job fair. If you're lucky, you might shake hands with someone, even Kit!

You're right that probably nobody actually gets hired at the job fair. However, it wasn't that long ago that I was desperately looking for a job and the really hard part was getting them to even look at your stuff. If you ask me, that is the real value of a job fair; the ability to look a guy in the eye and introduce yourself. Of course, it's diluted by the 800 other guys he talks to that day but that's what it's about.

 

[pilotyip]

Bobby come on you were not there, I was. Pinnicle had their HR people and line pilots doing interviews for three days in ATL. A number of pilots walked away from ATL with a job. No sim evals, no LOR's. Back in 2000, I hired off the floor at ATL to fill classes in a next couple weeks, EJA was doing the same thing. You can a walk away from an Air Inc job fair with a job. I do not understand why anyone trying to get a job would forego an opportunity to enhance thier options. They easily pay for sim prep, interview prep, so why not face to face time with a recruiter?