How USAPA's futile stand exacerbates the AA bankruptcy

[charlie2]

Perhaps later. It depends on what happens with ALPA & the TWA DFR lawsuit / damages / appeal. While ALPA has some appeal as a National "union", ALPA's main focus in the past 20 years is more about how much dues money can they get vs. representing a body of pilots to get the very best contract (IMHO). Further, IF we merger with AA...there is no way USAPA or ALPA survive as the CBA in the merged pilot group.

The fact remains that we (all US Airways pilots) can gain control over our independent union if we work together. Doing so will be the QUICKEST way to a new contract. This rudderless ship has run aground, and the captain is still barking orders (like the ship is still moving somewhere).

LURKERS: Are you willing to acquiesce that the Nicolau arbitrated seniority list is the ONLY list that LCC / USAPA can legally use?
We really do prefer to wait for the courts decision on this one. I really don't think the word "legal" applies here either.

Are you ready for a new contract that is at least better than the current AWA contract with perhaps DAL +1 wages? Are you ready for a change to a more positively controlled union vs. the stinking soap opera that ours has become?
Our ALPA experience was also a soap opera. APA has been one as well for the past few years. SWAPA is really doing well with their merger aren't they! My buddy at United is so proud of his union he is glowing with pride...he just can't stop saying nice things about ALPA. ALPA did big things for AWA the proof is the current CBA they are working under.

GO TO: WWW.REFORMUSAPA.COM

1. Make sure that you are a Member in Good Standing.
2. Complete the three petitions on the website above, and mail them in.
3. Pay attention to upcoming elections.
4. VOTE, VOTE, VOTE!
5. Participate and volunteer on a committee if you have the time.

I agree with 1,3,4,5 but I think only westies will do the DOH petition...with a few exceptions of course.

We can do this together, OR you can sit and watch the "ship" be destroyed on the coral reef. Your choice.

USAPA is our pilots and if we merge we will have a differant name for our new union but guess what it will still be our pilots so I don't think it will be "destroyed".

 

[cactusboy53]

USAPA is our pilots and if we merge we will have a differant name for our new union but guess what it will still be our pilots so I don't think it will be "destroyed".

Thanks for being frank and honest. Have you completed the two other petitions? If not, now is the time to get it done.

CB

 

[Bringupthebird]

Hint: We knew this. Duke it out? Don't get what your trying to say, if national did this then we would be working under the kirby crap that the west loves so much, with the nic list and many of us were afraid that was going to happen. We were watching national remove our reps who were voted in by the membership so why would they have stopped there? We really thought we had to get rid of the alpa national problem. Ask APA, SWAPA , Teamsters, ALPA guys if they think their union is perfect. Ours isn't either.

No, you'd be negotiating at least your second contract and be far ahead of where you are now wrt seat/equipment. You were wrong, you didn't have an ALPA problem, you had a foolish emotional pilot problem (that grew out of an apathetic pilot problem that allowed a few to wield disproportionate influence and promote their agenda).

APA - retained a pension.

SWAPA - protected both their pilots jobs AND paychecks.

Teamsters - UPS pay rates - 'nuff said.

ALPA - still around and fighting the fight and maybe winning a few rounds.

USAPA - failed to produce anything and took in over $16M over it's lifespan to do it. Not only far from perfect - an unmitigated disaster!

As a side note, please learn how to enclose quotes. Your red print is too tedious to reply to.

 

[charlie2]

No, you'd be negotiating at least your second contract and be far ahead of where you are now wrt seat/equipment. You were wrong, you didn't have an ALPA problem, you had a foolish emotional pilot problem (that grew out of an apathetic pilot problem that allowed a few to wield disproportionate influence and promote their agenda).

APA - retained a pension.

SWAPA - protected both their pilots jobs AND paychecks.

Teamsters - UPS pay rates - 'nuff said.

ALPA - still around and fighting the fight and maybe winning a few rounds.

USAPA - failed to produce anything and took in over $16M over it's lifespan to do it. Not only far from perfect - an unmitigated disaster!

As a side note, please learn how to enclose quotes. Your red print is too tedious to reply to.

Then don't reply.

 

[charlie2]

Thanks for being frank and honest. Have you completed the two other petitions? If not, now is the time to get it done.

CB

I'm looking at them and probably will. I think any airline union could use improvements and USAPA definitley could.

 

[Flybywire44]

Perhaps later. It depends on what happens with ALPA & the TWA DFR lawsuit / damages / appeal. While ALPA has some appeal as a National "union", ALPA's main focus in the past 20 years is more about how much dues money can they get vs. representing a body of pilots to get the very best contract (IMHO). Further, IF we merger with AA...there is no way USAPA or ALPA survive as the CBA in the merged pilot group.

The fact remains that we (all US Airways pilots) can gain control over our independent union if we work together. Doing so will be the QUICKEST way to a new contract. This rudderless ship has run aground, and the captain is still barking orders (like the ship is still moving somewhere).

LURKERS: Are you willing to acquiesce that the Nicolau arbitrated seniority list is the ONLY list that LCC / USAPA can legally use? Are you ready for a new contract that is at least better than the current AWA contract with perhaps DAL +1 wages? Are you ready for a change to a more positively controlled union vs. the stinking soap opera that ours has become?

GO TO: WWW.REFORMUSAPA.COM

1. Make sure that you are a Member in Good Standing.
2. Complete the three petitions on the website above, and mail them in.
3. Pay attention to upcoming elections.
4. VOTE, VOTE, VOTE!
5. Participate and volunteer on a committee if you have the time.

I'll wait for APA to takeover.
We can do this together, OR you can sit and watch the "ship" be destroyed on the coral reef. Your choice.

My friend, APA will take over well before USAPA fails. The arbitrates list will stand in the Merger and all will be well because AMR retirements and East retirements will take care of the East pilots who remain. :smash:

 

[Taco Rocket]

My friend, APA will take over well before USAPA fails. The arbitrates list will stand in the Merger and all will be well because AMR retirements and East retirements will take care of the East pilots who remain. :smash:

Assuming another merger and assuming APA is the bargaining agent, why would they be bound to accept an arbitration from two unions ago? If it's not implemented at the point of an hypothetical APA merger would union #3 be required to take it? (unchartered waters)

Can anyone provide a factual (non emotional) answer? I know that's hard on this board.

 

[cactusboy53]

Assuming another merger and assuming APA is the bargaining agent, why would they be bound to accept an arbitration from two unions ago? If it's not implemented at the point of an hypothetical APA merger would union #3 be required to take it? (unchartered waters)

Can anyone provide a factual (non emotional) answer? I know that's hard on this board.

Because the courts will ultimately make it law (although it's a pity that you have to be instructed to do so). No arbitrated list has ever been vacated, set aside, etc. EVER. Mike and Randy have even said so in a publication years ago.

Yes it is unchartered waters, but the ATTEMPT by USAPA to put ANYTHING other than an unrestricted Nicolau list is AGAIN grounds for another DFR. USAPA is already under the gun for ONE INJUNCTION. Just how difficult do you think it will be to get the courts to do another one (based on USAPA's history of constantly trying to dick the West pilot group at ANY and ALL costs)?

Give it a shot Taco. I'll bet you a six pack of soda USAPA will be shot down legally (again). I continue to be amazed the the complete lack of integrity by your collective group.

 

[Dan Roman]

Assuming another merger and assuming APA is the bargaining agent, why would they be bound to accept an arbitration from two unions ago? If it's not implemented at the point of an hypothetical APA merger would union #3 be required to take it? (unchartered waters)

Can anyone provide a factual (non emotional) answer? I know that's hard on this board.

Well nobody "knows" what will happen, but I think it is a safe bet that no bankruptcy court or Board of Director would ever a approve a deal that would not include the seniority issue solved before putting the two airlines together. Otherwise the new airline would be just agreeing to years of litigation and trying to operate with a major handicap that would prevent the new airline from reaching it's full potential.

Similar to why USAir currently could never get a BOD of a healthy airline to merge with them because it would not be in the stockholders best interest of a healthy airline to take on the litigation and irrational behavior that USAPA has exhibited.

USAPA is a problem that no airline would want to be infected by.

 

[Taco Rocket]

USAPA is a problem that no airline would want to be infected by.

So true. Which is why I don't understand why management isn't working on its own solution. Or maybe they are?

There's the obvious whipsaw factor, but that will only go so far. I agree that this mess has and will probably prevent another merger with US, if USAPA stays in its current form.

So when will management figure something out? Obviously everyone expects management to seek the big payday, and this mess is standing in their way.