How USAPA's futile stand exacerbates the AA bankruptcy

[MCDU]

I wonder how AWA pilots would have voted if the arbitraitor gave DOH and no conditions and restrictions. Would the West have blocked the vote under ALPA merger policy or would they just have given in. The arbitration is not as binding as you think. If it was, it would have been enforced.

The West had the power never to implement the Arbitration just like the East does. I wonder why the East is fine with seperate ops. The Windfall Nic is showing more and more. Just look how many pilots a bottom West pilot would have under him even though they took over 23% of east jobs.

Just ask any of your former classmates at TWA. I wonder why you do not want to go back. MKW is just next to ORD. I guess like like the MKW PHX commute.

M

 

[macdu]

So any guesses on when the 60 day notices to furlough are coming? And how many? (from AA)

 

[Metrojet]

The Easties are complete wheenies. They have "sullied" themselves because they agreed to something, didn't like the outcome, and then turned into complete turds. A handshake from them or a signature means NOTHING. They deserve their low pay.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Hey General -

pretty big talker behind your keyboard - you have no clue about anything over here. Stick to your international layovers and don't worry about us!

Metrojet

 

[ableone]

I wonder how AWA pilots would have voted if the arbitraitor gave DOH and no conditions and restrictions. Would the West have blocked the vote under ALPA merger policy or would they just have given in. The arbitration is not as binding as you think. If it was, it would have been enforced.

The West had the power never to implement the Arbitration just like the East does. I wonder why the East is fine with seperate ops. The Windfall Nic is showing more and more. Just look how many pilots a bottom West pilot would have under him even though they took over 23% of east jobs.

adam you are a tool. Just ask any of your former classmates at TWA. I wonder why you do not want to go back. MKW is just next to ORD. I guess like like the MKW PHX commute.

M

Ahh, the Gulfstream pretender returns.

West pilots knew that DOH was a possible outcome of the arbitration because by definition anything can happen in an arbitration. I don't know anyone who had not braced for DOH as a possible outcome.

The east pilots on the other hand seemed to KNOW that DOH was the only possible outcome. History has proven them collectively stupid and this is just another piece of evidence.

A windfall is a furloughed pilot becoming senior to a lineholding captain.

The Nicolau is was and will be fair.

 

[ableone]

Hey General -

pretty big talker behind your keyboard - you have no clue about anything over here. Stick to your international layovers and don't worry about us!

Metrojet

Actually the General is spot on.

You've got a lot of keyboard machismo yourself.

It's telling that your primary defenders are flightInfo laughingstock like MCDU.

 

[Guppiedriver]

Ahh, the Gulfstream pretender returns.

West pilots knew that DOH was a possible outcome of the arbitration because by definition anything can happen in an arbitration. I don't know anyone who had not braced for DOH as a possible outcome.

The east pilots on the other hand seemed to KNOW that DOH was the only possible outcome. History has proven them collectively stupid and this is just another piece of evidence.

A windfall is a furloughed pilot becoming senior to a lineholding captain.

The Nicolau is was and will be fair.

Actually the General is spot on.

You've got a lot of keyboard machismo yourself.

It's telling that your primary defenders are flightInfo laughingstock like MCDU.

Well said!

 

[vetrider]

I wonder how AWA pilots would have voted if the arbitraitor gave DOH and no conditions and restrictions. Would the West have blocked the vote under ALPA merger policy or would they just have given in. The arbitration is not as binding as you think. If it was, it would have been enforced.

The West had the power never to implement the Arbitration just like the East does. I wonder why the East is fine with seperate ops. The Windfall Nic is showing more and more. Just look how many pilots a bottom West pilot would have under him even though they took over 23% of east jobs.

adam you are a tool. Just ask any of your former classmates at TWA. I wonder why you do not want to go back. MKW is just next to ORD. I guess like like the MKW PHX commute.

M

Ableone is right. I know I braced for DOH, and frankly was rather worried it, or some thing close to it, was going to come to pass. It's true, we could have voted no on an agreement, but it would have been shortly obvious how futile that would have been in the long term.

What the west definitely could not have pulled off is the skullduggery the east has. Prater and alpo would have told us to pound sand. And our own 2% terror machine and scumbag lawyer would have been out of the question.

You're not talking apples to apples here.

 

[PCL_128]

They deserve their low pay.

Maybe so, but as waveflyer has aptly pointed out, they aren't the only ones who suffer as a result. The APA pilots are going to have to face a bankruptcy judge who is going to hear arguments from AMR's attorneys claiming that the USAirways wages are "market rates." Meanwhile, you and we will be in Section 6 next year, and United is already in negotiations. Alaska starts in another year. The Airways rates are an anchor on all of us. They may deserve what they're getting, but it's the rest of us who will suffer right along with them.

 

[MCDU]

Maybe so, but as waveflyer has aptly pointed out, they aren't the only ones who suffer as a result. The APA pilots are going to have to face a bankruptcy judge who is going to hear arguments from AMR's attorneys claiming that the USAirways wages are "market rates." Meanwhile, you and we will be in Section 6 next year, and United is already in negotiations. Alaska starts in another year. The Airways rates are an anchor on all of us. They may deserve what they're getting, but it's the rest of us who will suffer right along with them.

Kind of like America West and Valujet (i mean Airtran) was when USAIR, United and Delta went into Ch 11. Thanks PFT_128 for being part of the problem. Your Airline started this and it all started when you went to Gulfstream. You are the problem. Thanks for the suffering your kind has created for all the real pilots that got hired at real airlines. PFT and mergers are the only way a tool like you can get hired. You are an ALPA hypocrite and you are now complaining about something you were part of starting.

M

 

[pilotyip]

Kind of like America West and Valujet (i mean Airtran) was when USAIR, United and Delta went into Ch 11. Thanks PFT_128 for being part of the problem. Your Airline started this and it all started when you went to Gulfstream. You are the problem. Thanks for the suffering your kind has created for all the real pilots that got hired at real airlines. PFT and mergers are the only way a tool like you can get hired. You are an ALPA hypocrite and you are now complaining about something you were part of starting.

M

Welcome to the club PCL, here I thought I was the source of the problem.

 

[Bringupthebird]

I wonder how AWA pilots would have voted if the arbitraitor gave DOH and no conditions and restrictions. Would the West have blocked the vote under ALPA merger policy or would they just have given in. The arbitration is not as binding as you think. If it was, it would have been enforced.

The West had the power never to implement the Arbitration just like the East does.

Sorry, that's a common misconception. There never was independent ratification with the ability for one side to veto the wishes of the other. Read the TA.

The seniority list arbitration is separate from contract ratification, but it's implementation is dependent on ratification.

Unless you've been too busy to read the news, Judge Silver will define the enforce-ability of the Nic.

USAPA pushed for single-carrier status so that they could attempt an unfettered land-grab, but alas they didn't think things through completely. In demolishing the wall of separation, they left themselves open to a DFR when they chose to support one side at the expense of the other. Now millions of extorted dollars later, they are being told in no uncertain terms that they must abide by the arbitration which will include presenting and defending the Nicolau list.

Once the integration and the Joint CBA is ratified, they can go back to their slimy, corrupt business as usual that the east seems so willing to accept.

 

[vetrider]

Would you believe there were west pilots running around proclaiming that the east was going to show us how to get a good contract? Lol. They can't do much of anything. They can't even hose a minority group without stepping on their cranks every step of the way.

 

[C Festerpuss]

It is not widely knowed or acknowledged that us southern folks has totally different ideas about the Second War for Independence, what yuall calls the Civil War. We knows it got sumpin to do with this incident and there is more information yuall needs to know.

[FONT=&quot]Battle of Fort Sumter[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Battle of Fort Sumter (April 12–13, 1861) was the bombardment and surrender of Fort Sumter, near Charleston, South Carolina, that started the American Civil War. Following declarations of secession by seven Southern states, South Carolina demanded that the U.S. Army abandon its facilities in Charleston Harbor. On December 26, 1860, U.S. Major Robert Anderson surreptitiously moved his small command from the indefensible Fort Moultrie on Sullivan's Island to Fort Sumter, a substantial fortress controlling the entrance of Charleston Harbor. An attempt by U.S. President James Buchanan to reinforce and resupply Anderson, using the unarmed merchant ship Star of the West, failed when it was fired upon by shore batteries on January 9, 1861. South Carolina authorities then seized all Federal property in the Charleston area, except for Fort Sumter.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]During the early months of 1861, the situation around Fort Sumter increasingly began to resemble a siege. In March, Brig. Gen. P.G.T. Beauregard, the first general officer of the newly formed Confederate States of America, was placed in command of Confederate forces in Charleston. Beauregard energetically directed the strengthening of batteries around Charleston harbor aimed at Fort Sumter. Conditions in the fort grew dire as the Federals rushed to complete the installation of additional guns. Anderson was short of men, food, and supplies.[/FONT]


What this here article don’t say is that there was a little “gob********************e” Yankee Sergeant named Cleary out on that fort. He done got up on the ramparts of Fort Sumter and dropped his drawers and mooned the peace loving and gentle people of Charleston South Carolina. Well sir they was mortified and consternated and then just so danged mad that the Honorable Southern General PGT Beauregard had no choice but to defend the honor of the good people of Charleston so done gone and ordered his artillery batteries to open fire.

So there it is… Mike Cleary’s kin done started the Second War for independence, (that’s the civil war for you Yankees..)

 

[charlie2]

Sorry, that's a common misconception. There never was independent ratification with the ability for one side to veto the wishes of the other. Read the TA. Ya, I think you are right about this.

The seniority list arbitration is separate from contract ratification, but it's implementation is dependent on ratification. Exactly! As Prater tried to tell the west many years ago it is non-ratifiable so how is this nic a good thing for the west?

Unless you've been too busy to read the news, Judge Silver will define the enforce-ability of the Nic. She will tell me I have to vote yes on a contract proposal? Wow this is a real change in the RLA I didn't think she was that powerful!!! I'm still going to vote no though.


USAPA pushed for single-carrier status so that they could attempt an unfettered land-grab, but alas they didn't think things through completely. In demolishing the wall of separation, they left themselves open to a DFR I agree with this, we should have stayed alpa, as much as I dislike that group, and never ratified a contract to avoid this dfr stuff when they chose to support one side at the expense of the other. Now millions of extorted dollars later, they are being told in no uncertain terms that they must abide by the arbitration when did this happen? which will include presenting and defending the Nicolau list

Once the integration and the Joint CBA is ratified This might happen in four to five years when enough of us eastinfections are dead or retired, good luck though, they can go back to their slimy, corrupt business as usual that the east seems so willing to accept.

In about five years you west guys and gals will get your nic so calm down already.

 

[charlie2]

It is not widely knowed or acknowledged that us southern folks has totally different ideas about the Second War for Independence, what yuall calls the Civil War. We knows it got sumpin to do with this incident and there is more information yuall needs to know.

[FONT=&quot]Battle of Fort Sumter[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Battle of Fort Sumter (April 12–13, 1861) was the bombardment and surrender of Fort Sumter, near Charleston, South Carolina, that started the American Civil War. Following declarations of secession by seven Southern states, South Carolina demanded that the U.S. Army abandon its facilities in Charleston Harbor. On December 26, 1860, U.S. Major Robert Anderson surreptitiously moved his small command from the indefensible Fort Moultrie on Sullivan's Island to Fort Sumter, a substantial fortress controlling the entrance of Charleston Harbor. An attempt by U.S. President James Buchanan to reinforce and resupply Anderson, using the unarmed merchant ship Star of the West, failed when it was fired upon by shore batteries on January 9, 1861. South Carolina authorities then seized all Federal property in the Charleston area, except for Fort Sumter.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]During the early months of 1861, the situation around Fort Sumter increasingly began to resemble a siege. In March, Brig. Gen. P.G.T. Beauregard, the first general officer of the newly formed Confederate States of America, was placed in command of Confederate forces in Charleston. Beauregard energetically directed the strengthening of batteries around Charleston harbor aimed at Fort Sumter. Conditions in the fort grew dire as the Federals rushed to complete the installation of additional guns. Anderson was short of men, food, and supplies.[/FONT]


What this here article don’t say is that there was a little “gob********************e” Yankee Sergeant named Cleary out on that fort. He done got up on the ramparts of Fort Sumter and dropped his drawers and mooned the peace loving and gentle people of Charleston South Carolina. Well sir they was mortified and consternated and then just so danged mad that the Honorable Southern General PGT Beauregard had no choice but to defend the honor of the good people of Charleston so done gone and ordered his artillery batteries to open fire.

So there it is… Mike Cleary’s kin done started the Second War for independence, (that’s the civil war for you Yankees..)

I knew Cleary was Johnny Reb hater!

 

[imacdog]

I love it how a couple of westicles make a post about how bad the east is and the usual suspects- fubiJERK and the Geneitsl jump on the band wagon. Loosers!
AWA pilots were and still are the doormat to this industry. Drug dealers, strike breakers, you name it these clowns have done it. They are lucky to have survived to this point. Their precious PHX base is worthless and they were banging on deaths door in 2005 when Lakefitld put the deal together. That's a fact!

Learn to spell.

 

[charlie2]

Learn to spell.

Seriously? That's the best you got?

 

[captfred]

I know I will blasted here for lowering the bar, whatever that bar is. Yea darn those people buying tickets always looking for a lower price, funny over on the other place a pilot is trying buy a ticket for his girlfriend to go to SNF. He is asking for advice on how to get the lowest cost ticket.

De-reg has made the industry we have today and most of the people posting here today would not be pilots without de-reg.

Life was good for a few pilots under regulation. There are probably 4-5 times as many pilot’s jobs now as there was in 1977. Back in reg time it was about 90% military that went to the majors. De-reg opened up a lot of airline job to non-military pilots. To return to regulation would raise ticket prices, reduce the number of passengers, and therefore reduce the number of pilots needed. Still is still a great way to make a living with wage in the upper brakets of all wage earners in the world

I agree YIP.

 

[PCL_128]

Welcome to the club PCL, here I thought I was the source of the problem.

As often as I disagree with you, you are right about one thing: pilots don't like to hear the truth. They'd rather live in a fantasy world where they can just make demands and get what they want in a vacuum.

 

[waveflyer]

What kind of BS defensive projection is that?

Your pilot group turning down raises that Parker had on the table is much different than an upstart or smaller carrier's pilot group not having the economic leverage to get better. Raising the bar is VERY tough- you can't just turn your back on raises over an emotional integration.

Kind of like America West and Valujet (i mean Airtran) was when USAIR, United and Delta went into Ch 11. Thanks PFT_128 for being part of the problem. Your Airline started this and it all started when you went to Gulfstream. You are the problem. Thanks for the suffering your kind has created for all the real pilots that got hired at real airlines. PFT and mergers are the only way a tool like you can get hired. You are an ALPA hypocrite and you are now complaining about something you were part of starting.

M