How to Earn Respect as an Airline Pilot

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez.....I had respect for you and your opinions up until now, now you are just like any other conservative azzhole that will sink to bashing one group to prove a point to another. It's 2008 and it's still ok to bash gay people or assume that male flight attendants are gay and just tripping over themselves to non-rev to SFO. I wonder what you secretly think about women or black pilots but never say outloud?

Have you read my post on the OBAP thread?

Since you called me out.... my intent is to concern pilots into looking like pilots instead of FAs... its that simple.... if they are shallow enough not to think about the real reasons to wear the uniform then maybe they are shallow enough to be homophobes...


Capiche?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Not sure that I agree with this. Respect from management in what way?

When it is time for your trip to be over and management says you will another trip and your wife expects you home.... do you want to call your wife and say I am on the way home or I have to work.

There is a difference between being a professional and being some tool box managements biotch...

Real Pilots defend the profession...

If the public believes you have value then that translates into effectivesness...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I think you misunderstand me. ALPA's CoE is excellant. I agree with them. But ALPA CoE adherence at ALPA, and by ALPA pilots (especially who post on this site) is minimal. It's good stuff, but nobody takes it seriously.

Simply put.... professionalism is a choice of free will. If you were to legislate it... the COE would not be ethical... it would be law. The FARs perhaps...??

It is similiar to democracy itself... if voting were mandated then it wouldn't be a free election...

Freedom, ethics and professionalism require responisbility and choice... Unfortunately... one of the choices is choosing not to choose...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Based on the vitriol I've seen on this board by ALPA pilots like yourself, I think my post is accurate. What a difference there would be if ALPA pilots adhered to their own CoE! Unfortunately, they "talk the talk," but don't "walk the walk."

Politics amongts pilots and the Code of Ethics when flying the line are different...

For what your interpretation of the COE should be when conducting the politics of the profession and what mine are could be very different...

For example... what canon do you think PCL has violated by posting his vitriol?

Perhaps you would like me to search the site to find some of your posts and do a comparative with the ALPA CoE as it pertains to conduct of affairs with members of the profession?

Yes... I would... if you please...

Point is this. If you, as an ALPA member, really believed the ALPA CoE and followed them, I think your posts on this site would be quite different. Unfortunately, I think most ALPA pilots view them as propoganda.

But please....prove me wrong.

T8

Actually you have posed the question so I'll put the burden of proof on you....

 

[instructordude]

Is this a serious post?

Yes it is.

 

[ableone]

This is one of the better threads. Obviously there is interest in the topic.

There is a reason that people who live and work in the real world pay close attention to what they wear.

Look at how your first and business class road warriors dress. They look sharp and you can easily picture them in a board room. They also carry attache cases that do not have "SURF NAKED" stickers affixed.

Contrast this to the average pilot. Short-sleeve shirt, tie and a flightbag covered with, dumb ass, aviation and band stickers. If you are out of high school you shouldn't have stickers on your gear. It makes us all look like idiots.

Unless you are the manager of your local Dairy Queen you should never wear a short sleeve shirt with a tie. Pick up a copy of "Dress for Success." If you don't believe it try to find a suit who takes off his jacket to reveal short sleeves.

Ask yourself if you would be comfortable attending a meeting wearing your daily uniform. If you think you might be the most under-dressed in the room, there might be a problem with your uniform.

When we need to start flying approaches with the DV windows open, maybe the leather jacket, helmet, goggles and scarf will be appropriate.

Ask your fifteen year old what you look like in your bomber jacket. It looked good on a 23 year old, 8th Air force pilot. It makes the average line pilot look like he is on his way to a Fonzie convention.

If you think people don't notice that you look like crap, think again.

BTW Lanyards of any kind are very lame. Weather you are an ALPA, USAPA, AOPA, or DELL supporter, leave the freaking lanyard where it belongs - your mailbox.

 

[AV80R]

Fortunately those guys wear their hats...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cW5xqL6z70E

 

[airborn]

I think that the original post was right. I fly boxes around and very rarely see passengers (unless I'm jumpseating or D/Hing...but...that being said, my shirt is ironed every night before I fly and my shoes have a nice shine to them...We do wear leather jackets, but when mine is on, it is zipped up about halfway not just flapping in the breeze.

The bottom line is that I do this because I have pride in myself and in my appearance.

It's not about what the travelling public thinks or ALPA's COE, it's about your own pride and professionalism.

Great post. I'll add "discipline" to the list.

I have never been more impressed than to jumpseat through a cargo hub (ASTAR/DHL) in the middle of the night and see crisp,white & pressed shirts at 3 a.m.

If you are not disciplined enough to take care of the shoes, pants and shirts, how do you think that carries over to discipline in the cockpit?

The M.O. to our profession is discipline. It is a long road to "make" it in our business. Many monotonous takeoffs and landings, position reports, preflights, etc. It can breed apathy & sloppiness.

What counteracts this?

Yup, discipline, which in effect is a quality of professionalism.



Thanks for reading.

 

[PurpleInMEM]

Freedom, ethics and professionalism require responisbility and choice... Unfortunately... one of the choices is choosing not to choose...

Thank God for that 'unfortunality' Rez...

Of course I'm assuming you subscribe to the mantra "Conform or be cast out..."

Room for everyone I suspect, plus it's just a job.

 

[trainer8]

Politics amongts pilots and the Code of Ethics when flying the line are different...

For what your interpretation of the COE should be when conducting the politics of the profession and what mine are could be very different...

For example... what canon do you think PCL has violated by posting his vitriol?



Yes... I would... if you please...



Actually you have posed the question so I'll put the burden of proof on you....

Easily done...

The overwelming display of a condescending attitude toward individuals whom disagree with you...which purveys the many posts, is an indication of your/PCL's professionalism...or perhaps, the lack of it.

As for a personal "canon" I'll stick with "do unto others as you would have them do to you." If you stick with that "canon," you won't go wrong.

On this site, we often cut off our fellow aviatior's nose...then ask him to smell a rose. It doesn't work.

T8

 

[PCL_128]

It's not condescension, it's a dose of reality. You just don't like to hear the truth because it doesn't fit with your preconceived notions.

 

[Saabslime]

5. Don't sit at the gate and yawn in public. If you
are tired stay in the crew room and rest until
your flight.

I'm a human being not a f-ng robot. If I need to yawn I'm damn sure not going to worry about if I'm doing it in front of passengers or not. Personally I think all this garbage about looking/being professional and putting yourself up on a plateau in front of the traveling public stems mostly from a lack of self esteem.

 

[Quack]

Professionalism, what's that? It's all but lost in an industry of furloughs, pay cuts, and cheaper is better. If companies want their pilots to be the most professional on the block, then why don't they start hiring pofessional pilots. We hire people at the regional level that may have just received their drivers licencse a couple years ago, have no college degree, and their concept of professionalism is simply showing up. As the old saying goes, "You get what you pay for".

 

[notajetpilot]

I just want to add that wearing a backpack is not ok. What can you need so bad that you can't fit it into your overnight bag.

 

[Aubie]

notajetpilot -

Put an English grammar text in your bag. Questions are supposed to end with a "?" symbol.

Man, I wore my hat into the interview to show how professional I was...why didn't I get hired?

 

[trainer8]

It's not condescension, it's a dose of reality. You just don't like to hear the truth because it doesn't fit with your preconceived notions.

PCL, let's keep in context. Are you not the one on these boards who many times convincingly pumps up ALPA, but yet you seem unwilling to adhere to it's own CoE when dealing with confrontation those who disagree with you?

Yes, truth is confrontational. Truth demands confrontation.

"Do unto others as you would have them do to you." There is some REAL truth.

The context of these posts about ALPA vs. USAPA has gone beyond "I disagree with you, here is why..." It has degenerated in to name calling and out and out juvenile posts. You're a current/former ALPA officer, right? If so, you not only represent the profession as a flight officer, you represent ALPA, as does PHX and others who regularly post here. I disagree with your post(s). All I expect is for you to respond professionally. I would think as a strong supporter of ALPA, you would excercise the ideals of the ALPA CoE. That's all. We disagree...and walk away to come back another day...maybe even find common ground.

Example: "AWA gets a windfall from Nic." (The statement is rhetorical for the context of this post, I'm not looking for a thread hijack.)

It can be simple to respond to the above statement. Back it up with factual data and refute or agree. Keep it accurate, stay away from personal denigration. If a person can't, they should say so, and STOP. If they sense that their opposition has a character flaw, they should articulate it professionally. Instead of "you're a ________, I would suggest that they should just state that they understand the perspective, but respectfully, it would be inappropriate to comment further without a bad comment.

If a person really senses that they have the moral high ground, they have nothing to fear. If they really believe that the AAA pilots are wrong, for example, that will play out. If they (AAA) are wrong, if everything they (AWA) state is true, then Nic will stand. That is what I expect from a professioanal ALPA aviator, not name calling and condescending comments.

Years ago I worked for a carrier who, during contract negotiations, the management team made some bad choices that negatively affected the pilot group pay. I worked with a fellow Captain who vowed he was gonna "rip off the company" by some unprofessional tactics to recoup his pay loss. I commented to him, "Are you not doing the same thing you despise your own employer for? Are you not lowering yourself to their level?" I told him the carrier would not survive if it conducted itself that way, anyway.

Different scenario, but similar to the USAPA/ALPA/AWA/USAIRWAYS situation. I think it will play out, but the pilots will either work together, or work separately, the latter, I believe to have grave consequenses.

T8

 

[trainer8]

Professionalism, what's that? It's all but lost in an industry of furloughs, pay cuts, and cheaper is better. If companies want their pilots to be the most professional on the block, then why don't they start hiring pofessional pilots. We hire people at the regional level that may have just received their drivers licencse a couple years ago, have no college degree, and their concept of professionalism is simply showing up. As the old saying goes, "You get what you pay for".

Then you have the opportunity to demonstrate to them what a professional pilot is. How's it going?

T8

 

[PCL_128]

PCL, let's keep in context. Are you not the one on these boards who many times convincingly pumps up ALPA, but yet you seem unwilling to adhere to it's own CoE when dealing with confrontation those who disagree with you?

I do adhere to the CoE. Your entire premise is false.

 

[trainer8]

I do adhere to the CoE. Your entire premise is false.

I do adhere to the CoE. Your entire premise is false.

An Air Line Pilot will accept the responsibilities as well as the rewards of command and will at all times so conduct himself both on duty and off as to instill and merit the confidence and respect of his crew, his fellow employees, and his associates within the profession.


An Air Line Pilot will conduct his affairs with other members of the profession and with ALPA in such a manner as to bring credit to the profession and ALPA as well as to himself.

• He will not falsely or maliciously injure the professional reputation, prospects, or job security of another pilot, yet if he knows of professional incompetence or conduct detrimental to the profession or to ALPA, he will not shrink from revealing this to the proper authorities within ALPA, so that the weak member may be brought up to the standards demanded, or ALPA and the profession alike may be rid of one unworthy to share its rewards.​

So, in your posts with N1N2 where you make condecending comments about him not attending BOD meetings because he is "to busy watching American Idol" (http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=110555&page=5), which part of the above CoE are you adhering to? Is it the bullet point? Is this how you bring others up to the "standards demanded?"

T8

 

[FirstMate]

For all the hat Nazi's: nothing looks more stupid than an over-sized hat that swallows your head and makes your ears flop down...if you're going to wear that damn thing get one that fits.

Like someone else mentioned before - the short sleeve shirts with a tie is another major faux pas. Kinda like the attire of a guy working in a position of authority similar to that of manager at a local grocery store or Wal-Mart.