Minimaniac
Benevolent Dictator
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2005
- Posts
- 455
Obviously, every party in the upcoming integration can justify why they should have an advantage in developing the final seniority list. Here are the factors to consider:
1. RAH is going to own both Midwest and Frontier. An arbitrator will always give credit to the pilot group of the purchasing airline, as it indicates financial strength.
2. Frontier is in bankruptcy. An arbitrator will acknowledge that actual and current bankruptcy means "career expectations" may not really exist any longer.
3. Frontier has been doing well in bankruptcy, with 6 quarters of profit. This will show an arbitrator that Frontier may actually be more viable than the bankruptcy tag suggests, and that the majority of those pilots do have renewed "career expectations".
3. Frontier cannot exit bankruptcy without republic (at least in this scenario, otherwise we wouldn't be talking integration!). This gives RAH pilots another advantage.
4. Frontier pilots have seniority going back to 1994, I believe. Previous airline time is unfortunately irrelevant. Many RAH pilots have previous 121 time, as well. And I don't mean just a year or two at another regional. RAH pilots have seniority going back to the 70's.
5. Midwest is a declining airline. With all of the aircraft being slated for removal, Midwest pilots do not have "career expectations" anymore in the eyes of an arbitrator.
6. Midwest has already been dependent upon cash from RAH for some time, suggesting to an arbitrator that Midwest pilot absolutely would not be employed if it weren't for Republic.
7. Midwest pilots have some of the most established seniority of the three (or four, with Lynx) company lists. That will be a plus for Midwest pilots.
8. There is no stapling. No one group will receive that kind of windfall.
As background, the last seniority list integration we had at RAH went as follows. RAH bought the Shuttle America company, which at the time only flew SAAB 340's. RAH did not plan to keep that aircraft type. AT the time, it was suggested that United Airlines was not going to renew its contract with Shuttle America. United was Shuttle America's only source of revenue. The end result of arbitration was that Shuttle America SAAB captains were lumped into one group, and placed at about halfway in the RAH seniority list. These pilots essentially went to the FO seat, kept their SAAB captain pay to some degree (they can tell you better), and they had the first opportunity to upgrade. The Shuttle America SAAB FO's were then slotted on a 1:7 basis throughout the remainder of the RAH list, giving them about a 100 pilot buffer from the bottom of the RAH list (furlough protection, in essence). Of course, everyone had some negative opinion about this. But, "old" Shuttle pilots got to keep longevity for pay purposes, were able to upgrade onto the aircraft of their choosing, and kept the pay they brought over. Not bad for a group of 85 pilots being merger into a 1300 pilot company. Since the SAABs were not kept, there was no potential for fences.
Here is how I see the upcoming mergers playing out:
1. Frontier- I assume the Frontier brand will remain intact, with all of the Airbus equipment being kept. In that case, I forsee a ratio integration that would preserve relative seniority, and fences that would keep Frontier pilots on their Airbus equipment for at least three years, if not more. No F9 pilot would find themselves furloughed if they are currently active on their own seniority list. Frontier FO's would be allowed to upgrade to a RAH airframe, but an RAH pilot would be allowed to bid for that vacant F9 seat, despite the fence. Once the fence expires, there will be no bump and flush, but rather RAH pilots can bid for any F9 vacany as it comes open. No F9 pilot will be displaced out of DEN and the Airbus, unless the aircraft are sold for some reason.
2. Lynx- Lynx is a young company, and has a good chance of being granted direct DOH. I don't see how Lynx pilots could ask for more than that, and since the majority of RAH pilots would be senior to the Lynx pilots, I think RAH pilots would vote in DOH without having to go to arbitration. Perhaps a fence could be negotiated, but I honestly see some RAH furloughees who are senior to the Lynx pilots being recalled into a Lynx seat and a junior Lynx FO having to go on furlough. That would be the drawback of DOH.
3. Midwest- Much like the Shuttle America example I gave above... Midwest aircraft are all going away, and there will be no 717's at RAH. That will mean no realistic hope for a fence. I feel that the Midwest pilots will end up losing the most in the integration because of the health of their company today. OF course no one is getting stapled. But, I do see a situation arising like Shuttle America, where the vast majority of Midwest pilots end up scattered through the bottom half of the new seniority list. I think Midwest captains will find themselves in position to take the first available upgrades, but in the right seat initially. Something will be done in terms of pay to recognize your longevity, but since your aircraft will be gone, and only aircraft less tha 99 seats will be available to you immediately (since F9 will be fenced off), Midwest pilots will be taking a nasty pay cut. For what it is worth, RAH will likely be getting more 190's to replace the 717's, and those new 190's will likely have more than 94 seats. If Midwest pilots can get a high enough spot on the RAH list, you will be well positioned to get onto the 190 with some higher pay than currently exists at RAH.
I am offering these ideas not as inflammatory comments, but as an somewhat educated insight into how things may go considering all integrations past that have relevance. I hope the process is quick so that the new additions to RAH can help us negotiate our new CBA and vote for their interests. Time will tell.
1. RAH is going to own both Midwest and Frontier. An arbitrator will always give credit to the pilot group of the purchasing airline, as it indicates financial strength.
2. Frontier is in bankruptcy. An arbitrator will acknowledge that actual and current bankruptcy means "career expectations" may not really exist any longer.
3. Frontier has been doing well in bankruptcy, with 6 quarters of profit. This will show an arbitrator that Frontier may actually be more viable than the bankruptcy tag suggests, and that the majority of those pilots do have renewed "career expectations".
3. Frontier cannot exit bankruptcy without republic (at least in this scenario, otherwise we wouldn't be talking integration!). This gives RAH pilots another advantage.
4. Frontier pilots have seniority going back to 1994, I believe. Previous airline time is unfortunately irrelevant. Many RAH pilots have previous 121 time, as well. And I don't mean just a year or two at another regional. RAH pilots have seniority going back to the 70's.
5. Midwest is a declining airline. With all of the aircraft being slated for removal, Midwest pilots do not have "career expectations" anymore in the eyes of an arbitrator.
6. Midwest has already been dependent upon cash from RAH for some time, suggesting to an arbitrator that Midwest pilot absolutely would not be employed if it weren't for Republic.
7. Midwest pilots have some of the most established seniority of the three (or four, with Lynx) company lists. That will be a plus for Midwest pilots.
8. There is no stapling. No one group will receive that kind of windfall.
As background, the last seniority list integration we had at RAH went as follows. RAH bought the Shuttle America company, which at the time only flew SAAB 340's. RAH did not plan to keep that aircraft type. AT the time, it was suggested that United Airlines was not going to renew its contract with Shuttle America. United was Shuttle America's only source of revenue. The end result of arbitration was that Shuttle America SAAB captains were lumped into one group, and placed at about halfway in the RAH seniority list. These pilots essentially went to the FO seat, kept their SAAB captain pay to some degree (they can tell you better), and they had the first opportunity to upgrade. The Shuttle America SAAB FO's were then slotted on a 1:7 basis throughout the remainder of the RAH list, giving them about a 100 pilot buffer from the bottom of the RAH list (furlough protection, in essence). Of course, everyone had some negative opinion about this. But, "old" Shuttle pilots got to keep longevity for pay purposes, were able to upgrade onto the aircraft of their choosing, and kept the pay they brought over. Not bad for a group of 85 pilots being merger into a 1300 pilot company. Since the SAABs were not kept, there was no potential for fences.
Here is how I see the upcoming mergers playing out:
1. Frontier- I assume the Frontier brand will remain intact, with all of the Airbus equipment being kept. In that case, I forsee a ratio integration that would preserve relative seniority, and fences that would keep Frontier pilots on their Airbus equipment for at least three years, if not more. No F9 pilot would find themselves furloughed if they are currently active on their own seniority list. Frontier FO's would be allowed to upgrade to a RAH airframe, but an RAH pilot would be allowed to bid for that vacant F9 seat, despite the fence. Once the fence expires, there will be no bump and flush, but rather RAH pilots can bid for any F9 vacany as it comes open. No F9 pilot will be displaced out of DEN and the Airbus, unless the aircraft are sold for some reason.
2. Lynx- Lynx is a young company, and has a good chance of being granted direct DOH. I don't see how Lynx pilots could ask for more than that, and since the majority of RAH pilots would be senior to the Lynx pilots, I think RAH pilots would vote in DOH without having to go to arbitration. Perhaps a fence could be negotiated, but I honestly see some RAH furloughees who are senior to the Lynx pilots being recalled into a Lynx seat and a junior Lynx FO having to go on furlough. That would be the drawback of DOH.
3. Midwest- Much like the Shuttle America example I gave above... Midwest aircraft are all going away, and there will be no 717's at RAH. That will mean no realistic hope for a fence. I feel that the Midwest pilots will end up losing the most in the integration because of the health of their company today. OF course no one is getting stapled. But, I do see a situation arising like Shuttle America, where the vast majority of Midwest pilots end up scattered through the bottom half of the new seniority list. I think Midwest captains will find themselves in position to take the first available upgrades, but in the right seat initially. Something will be done in terms of pay to recognize your longevity, but since your aircraft will be gone, and only aircraft less tha 99 seats will be available to you immediately (since F9 will be fenced off), Midwest pilots will be taking a nasty pay cut. For what it is worth, RAH will likely be getting more 190's to replace the 717's, and those new 190's will likely have more than 94 seats. If Midwest pilots can get a high enough spot on the RAH list, you will be well positioned to get onto the 190 with some higher pay than currently exists at RAH.
I am offering these ideas not as inflammatory comments, but as an somewhat educated insight into how things may go considering all integrations past that have relevance. I hope the process is quick so that the new additions to RAH can help us negotiate our new CBA and vote for their interests. Time will tell.
