How lemons can be turned into lemonade...

[Kalifornia]

As I understand it, the old 717 configuration accommodated 88 passengers. The first 2 E190's will be configured for 94 seats. Both airplanes have the potential to seat more, and the 717 can seat more than the E190 with max density seating. The A318 is pretty much on par with the 717 in terms of max capacity, and the E195 (which has not been ordered) could be right up there with the other two airframes. In all, it is a wash, with a slight advantage going to the 717 and A318.

I know you're trying to play nice on here...but, what a moronic thought. Your bird brain wages are partly why this career is in it's epidemic sickly shape as may fly 100 seat aircraft, but virtually you fly a 35 seat passenger airplanes Mr. Shiny Jet Syndrome rep. It's like if Delta merged with Skybus when they were still around and they demanded the same seniority as NWA because they also flew A320s. Republic is the modern day Skybus fluff.

 

[Minimaniac]

Ok, and how exactly did I express a moronic thought in stating the approximate seat capacities of three aircraft types?

 

[Cornelius]

Last I heard the A318s don't fit into the F9 route structure as well as the 319 and 320. Isn't this why F9 is and has been trading in 318s for 320s??

 

[Popeye0537]

johnsonrod,

I would rather be unemployed, then work for another commuter again.

BURN THE PLACE DOWN!, Before we totally RUIN our industry. Besides, without Frontier and Midwest operating, the other BIG airlines can raise ticket prices and get the INDUSTRY right sized.

CYA

Really? The industry began it's downfall before you were out of grade school. "Deregulation"
Raise prices....with SWA in the mix that will never happen so why aren't you pissed off at them also?

 

[Cardinal]

The blurring has already begun. YX/F9 codeshare.

http://www.thedeal.com/corporatedealmaker/2009/06/memo_midwest_and_frontier_to_c.php

According to an internal memo to Midwest employees obtained Thursday, Frontier and Midwest will soon launch a codeshare designed to offer customers of each airline more destinations. The deal would allow Midwest to offer connections from Denver to destinations such as Aspen, Colo., Colorado Springs, Colo., and Boise, Idaho, while Frontier could offer one-stop service to markets like Cleveland, Nashville and Philadelphia through Midwest's Milwaukee hub.

To: All Midwest and Skyway Employees
Date: June 25, 2009

We're happy to share the news that Midwest Airlines will soon launch a codeshare program with Frontier Airlines.

This is good news for travelers and for our airline. Customers of both airlines will benefit from a wider choice of travel destinations, and additional flight options and connection possibilities, as well as the ability to book their entire flight on a single ticket. In addition to expanding our network, Midwest adds yet another marketing partner with the new codeshare -- making it a win-win situation.

Under the codeshare, Midwest's YX code will be placed on Frontier flights in select markets, allowing our customers to connect in Denver to Frontier destinations including Aspen and Colorado Springs, Colo.; Boise, Idaho; Billings and Bozeman, Mont.; Rapid City, S.D; and other destinations in the Rocky Mountain region.

Similarly, Frontier's F9 code will be placed on Midwest flights in select markets, providing Frontier customers the ability to connect in Milwaukee to the Ohio Valley and East Coast -- including Cleveland, Dayton, Ft. Myers, Indianapolis, Nashville, New York La Guardia, Orlando, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Tampa and Washington, D.C.

Travelers can purchase tickets and fly on the codeshare routes beginning August 30. Additional codeshare cities will be added following the initial launch.

In addition to the codeshare, this new marketing relationship between Midwest and Frontier will include a reciprocal frequent flyer agreement, allowing members of the Midwest Miles and Frontier Early Returns programs to earn and redeem miles on either airline. We plan to roll that out in the third quarter of this year.

 

[ultrarunner]

I don't know that a case can be made for any of the MidEx pilots joining the RAH group. MidEx was furloughing as a result of their own 717's and MD-80's being returned and replaced by Republic planes being flow by RAH pilots on an RAH certificate. The YX certificate is going to cease to exist when the last of the 717's are returned, is that essentially correct?

RAH is buying the brand/gates/slots and maybe some buildings, right? They are not acquiring any airframes. So we're not talking about an airline merger here.

I don't know...I just don't see how 400+ MidEx pilots have much of a fight against 2000+ Teamster pilots that are going to want to hold on to what they have....


In any event, if I were a RAH Teamster pilot, I wouldn't think of doing any talking till my own furloughed were returned.

If I were a MidEx pilot still on property, I'd guess I'd be pretty bummed I didn't demand better scope language to mitigate the chances of my job getting OUTSOURCED!

Ultra--

 

[starchkr]

"Under the codeshare, Midwest's YX code will be placed on Frontier flights in select markets, allowing our customers to connect in Denver to Frontier destinations including Aspen and Colorado Springs, Colo.; Boise, Idaho; Billings and Bozeman, Mont.; Rapid City, S.D; and other destinations in the Rocky Mountain region.

Similarly, Frontier's F9 code will be placed on Midwest flights in select markets, providing Frontier customers the ability to connect in Milwaukee to the Ohio Valley and East Coast -- including Cleveland, Dayton, Ft. Myers, Indianapolis, Nashville, New York La Guardia, Orlando, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Tampa and Washington, D.C."

I get the first part...however i do not get the second. Why would i want to make a one stop flight through MKE when i can fly direct from DEN to DAY, IND, BNA, LGA MCO, PHL, TPA and DCA? Am i missing something here?

For all the seat capacity people...the 318 seats 120 in its current configuration, i believe it can hold a max of 132(?), if i remember the max total capacity from Airbus(i could be off a few seats on that one). Also, as someone already stated, we are tradin the 318's in for 320's...we don't like them and the 320 fits better into our plans...well, i guess we'll have to see how they fit into our "future" plans now.

 

[Cornelius]

Starchkr, i was thinking the same thing, why codeshare with midex when we already fly to most of those destinations?

 

[Lebowski]

I know you're trying to play nice on here...but, what a moronic thought. Your bird brain wages are partly why this career is in it's epidemic sickly shape as may fly 100 seat aircraft, but virtually you fly a 35 seat passenger airplanes Mr. Shiny Jet Syndrome rep. It's like if Delta merged with Skybus when they were still around and they demanded the same seniority as NWA because they also flew A320s. Chataqua is the next Skybus fluffs.

Aside from the insults in this post, I agree with the sentiment. RAH wages are horrible, particularly the FO rates on the 190/195. There simply is no comparison with F9, where each pilot has earned the right to an Airbus slot and better pay. It's as if one day Mesa could afford to buy UAL due to some wierdness in the stock market, and then every pilot at Mesa thought they were owed a Captain seat flying a 777. Give me a break.

If I were an RAH pilot, I'd be thanking my lucky stars that all of a sudden I have a future job flying an Airbus--without having to go interview for it, and pay my dues like everyone at Frontier did (Midwest, too).

Even if RAH pilots are stapled to the bottom of the F9 and Midwest lists, that's a HUGE gain for every pilot at RAH. Trying to go for a merged list is nothing more than being greedy and trying to get a windfall.

 

[AnimalTale]

Starchkr, i was thinking the same thing, why codeshare with midex when we already fly to most of those destinations?

Think about it guys.

Now with the code share they dont need relief on scope.

The codeshare with Midwest (owned by Republic) will provide Frontier (owned by Republic, also) with essential SLAVE LABOR E190 feed.

Do you see how clever they (BB and team) are?

CYA

 

[rchcfi]

Think about it guys.

Now with the code share they dont need relief on scope.

The codeshare with Midwest (owned by Republic) will provide Frontier (owned by Republic, also) with essential SLAVE LABOR E190 feed.

Do you see how clever they (BB and team) are?

CYA

WOW! Just WOW! Even I didn't think of that.

On a side note, I had to clean the toilet today. And as I was flushing it I couldn't help but correlate the swirling water with my (our) career. And the sad thing is I'm serious!

 

[RobCat]

Aside from the insults in this post, I agree with the sentiment. RAH wages are horrible, particularly the FO rates on the 190/195. There simply is no comparison with F9, where each pilot has earned the right to an Airbus slot and better pay. It's as if one day Mesa could afford to buy UAL due to some wierdness in the stock market, and then every pilot at Mesa thought they were owed a Captain seat flying a 777. Give me a break.

If I were an RAH pilot, I'd be thanking my lucky stars that all of a sudden I have a future job flying an Airbus--without having to go interview for it, and pay my dues like everyone at Frontier did (Midwest, too).

Even if RAH pilots are stapled to the bottom of the F9 and Midwest lists, that's a HUGE gain for every pilot at RAH. Trying to go for a merged list is nothing more than being greedy and trying to get a windfall.

So you are saying that Midwest and Frontier should not be lucky that some holding company that flys regionals for slave labor decided to use there capital (that was made by the sweat off the backs of that work group) to keep them from going T.U. shouldn't or dont deserve this opportunity as well. Seriously!

 

[AnimalTale]

So you are saying that Midwest and Frontier should not be lucky that some holding company that flys regionals for slave labor decided to use there capital (that was made by the sweat off the backs of that work group) to keep them from going T.U. shouldn't or dont deserve this opportunity as well. Seriously!

I would rather go T.U. and preserve what we had (even though it is eroding), then be SAVED from a SLAVE LABOR outfit.

It is time to stop the sinking.

CYA

 

[RobCat]

I would rather go T.U. and preserve what we had (even though it is eroding), then be SAVED from a SLAVE LABOR outfit.

It is time to stop the sinking.

CYA

Sorry but what you had was a bankrupt company. Whos fault it was is of little concern, F9 was still bankrupt and eroding.

That is an easy one. I guess we will have your resignation soon. As for the rest of OUR (CHQ, MW, F9) group we will work on something fair for all. It may get alittle ugly and sticky but we will work it out with or without you. As far as you yourself you have to decide if your onboard or not. Oh and BTW welcome to the family.

 

[Lebowski]

Sorry but what you had was a bankrupt company. Whos fault it was is of little concern, F9 was still bankrupt and eroding.

That is an easy one. I guess we will have your resignation soon. As for the rest of OUR (CHQ, MW, F9) group we will work on something fair for all. It may get alittle ugly and sticky but we will work it out with or without you. As far as you yourself you have to decide if your onboard or not. Oh and BTW welcome to the family.

If you really wanted to "work on something fair for all" and do something proper for the profession and your own dignity, you'd gladly place yourself below all the pilots on the F9 and Midwest seniority lists. They weren't flying EMB 190s around for 30-something an hour.

 

[Cornelius]

Are there any examples of a code share out their where one airline had a cheap laborgroup and got all the extra flying when the more expensive airline stagnated or shrank.

I know LUV is upset about their new code shares, but that is international? Kinda similar though.

Great Lakes has a code share with Frontier, and that deosn't seem to affect growth of Lynx or F9 much. Granted they are a small outfit.

 

[RobCat]

If you really wanted to "work on something fair for all" and do something proper for the profession and your own dignity, you'd gladly place yourself below all the pilots on the F9 and Midwest seniority lists. They weren't flying EMB 190s around for 30-something an hour.

Why would I do that? My hard work may have purchased you. Now lets just end this before some feelings get hurt. As far as my dignity it is still intact.

 

[sshrae]

Why would I do that? My hard work may have purchased you. Now lets just end this before some feelings get hurt. As far as my dignity it is still intact.

Everybody understands you would not want to be on the bottom of this list, but your hard work? Please, your CEO is a criminal. He is ruining all your hard work as he is making your entire operation look terrible. My advice is as soon as the majors start hiring again get the hell out of that company. Just my 2 cents.

 

[RobCat]

Everybody understands you would not want to be on the bottom of this list, but your hard work? Please, your CEO is a criminal. He is ruining all your hard work as he is making your entire operation look terrible. My advice is as soon as the majors start hiring again get the hell out of that company. Just my 2 cents.

Yes my and 4200+ other employees that work for the RAH family. Oh and dont forget the F9 guys, your consessions and reorganization helped to make this possible on your end as well. But realize YOU didnt come to this and could not of done this alone. Yes for me the game plan was and still may be to move on when that opp. comes, but while I am here I intend to make this place better, and if possible the best company in the industry. Its not a bad thing, its just a personality trait that I have.

Lets stop crying about the card we were just delt. We still have a good hand. Lets work together to make a better hand and win the game. Key word is together!!

one person alone having 2 cents in his pocket cant and will not do a dang thing. If the group of people put the 2cents onto a common pot together now we have something to work with.

 

[sshrae]

Yes my and 4200+ other employees that work for the RAH family. Oh and dont forget the F9 guys, your consessions and reorganization helped to make this possible on your end as well. But realize YOU didnt come to this and could not of done this alone. Yes for me the game plan was and still may be to move on when that opp. comes, but while I am here I intend to make this place better, and if possible the best company in the industry. Its not a bad thing, its just a personality trait that I have.

Lets stop crying about the card we were just delt. We still have a good hand. Lets work together to make a better hand and win the game. Key word is together!!

one person alone having 2 cents in his pocket cant and will not do a dang thing. If the group of people put the 2cents onto a common pot together now we have something to work with.

Slow down there chief, take a deep breath, I have not worked for f9 for over a year, I am out of the airline business and very happy at NJA. However, I do have an interest because I spent 2 years there and its sad to see it come to this. I understand you want the best for your company, this is not a personal attack. I'm just saying the leader of your "family" is a criminal, a scumbag who could give a crap about you or anybody who works for f9 or midwest. He will replace the entire pilot group if he has to. Everybody I have talked to at f9 says they would rather see the place fail than to work for RAH. Does that tell you something. We are watching the demise of an airline that was at one time a great place to work. There is not going to be a common goal between RAH and frontier, morale is way too low over there. So have fun flying your 190 at panhandle rates under a certificate that was at one time an industry leader in pay and qol for airbus crews. Do you see what I am getting at?