How lemons can be turned into lemonade...

[Andy Neill]

This would set a terrible president

I'll not have you talking about the commander in chief that way.

 

[Andy Neill]

Deleted

 

[Andy Neill]

As a disinterested third party let me toss out a plan for discussion. In forming this, I used the following considerations:
---Frontier/Midwest pilots are entitled to some consideration because they probably have already gained considerable experience at the regional level or had sufficient experience to bypass the regionals when they arrived at Frontier/Midwest.
---RAH pilots deserve more consideration because they had a relatively more secure position at Republic before the acquisitions than did the acquired pilots.
*********
With those set as the basis, here is my plan:

Integrate using relative seniority with the following exception
No Frontier/Midwest pilot captain will be placed lower than the most junior RAH captain. [Note that this is different in effect than saying no lower than the most senior RAH FO who may be senior enough to be a Captain at Republic.] Fence off domiciles and aircraft transistions for a period equal to the time the most junior Frontier/Midwest captain had at upgrade. Furloughs (if any) will take place within each of the three pilot groups until the end of the fence period.

 

[landlover]

---Frontier FOs are entitled to some consideration considering the time many of them have paid in regional jobs or that they had sufficient qualifications ot bypass the regionals.

I'm no judge and have no dog in this fight. But i really can't see how this would have any bearing. if that holds true, why not give guys with college degrees a high seniority number? Or who ever has the most hours or most type ratings gets to be number 1.

 

[Andy Neill]

That's why I put it oput there...for comment. So if you throw that out, you would advocate straight relative seniority?

 

[OpenClimb]

How 'bout seniority based on hire date at your first Part 121 carrier? Sort of a national seniority list concept applied retroactively.

I'm obviously biased, but straight relative seniority would cost me 8 years of upward mobility and would, conversely, be a big bonus to an RAH FO who's 35% from the top of the RAH FO list.

I had a little over 4000 hours and a type rating when I was hired at Frontier and have just shy of 9000 hours now. How does this compare to a 35% (from the top) FO at RAH?

Again, from my biased perspective, I'd like to see a fence to protect those currently on the property or furloughed. I can't bump EMB guys and EMB guys can't bump me. Any new hires from integration date forward go on the bottom of the master list and work their way up through the ranks.

'Course I'm well aware that the folks making these decisions have ignored my suggestions in the past and haven't asked my opinion in the current instance. In the end, we'll all take what is shoved down our throats and our only recourse will be a change of career.

I realize it's FI tradition to be argumentative and inflamatory, but please take my posts in the spirit intended. I don't claim to have the answers. I'm just hoping an exchange of perspectives will help us all cope with the screwing we're about to receive! [Now who's being polyanic?]

 

[Andy Neill]

I'd like to see a fence to protect those currently on the property or furloughed. I can't bump EMB guys and EMB guys can't bump me. Any new hires from integration date forward go on the bottom of the master list and work their way up through the ranks.

Are you suggesting the fence be in place permanently?

 

[OpenClimb]

Are you suggesting the fence be in place permanently?

Hmm. I see your point. A permanent fence would be tantamount to "stapling" the RAH list to the Frontier list. Not cool.

So, in a twisted way, a fence is just putting off the inevitable hard feelings of a true integration.

Even acknowledging your point, I have to be honest and say that I don't think it's right that an RAH FO with 18-36 months in the business should attain my relative seniority as a result of integrating the seniority lists.

I realize this is a crappy thing to say, but dang. There's been a lot of water under the bridge since I was 35% from the top of the FO list at my first Part 121 job. I'd hate to think that all that 'paying of dues' was wasted.

Can someone from RAH share with us the approximate hire date of an RAH FO who's attained the level of 35% from the top of the FO list? Has s/he been there 18 months? 36 months? Even in the larger, more stable of the 2 small-jet operators I worked for I was at this level in less than 2 years.

I'm open to suggestions and to having my mind changed on the subject. Andy, do you have any suggestions or are you just playing Socrates in this debate?

 

[Flying the Line]

Fence up until the most junior (on furlough) F9 guy upgrades to Airbus Captain, then a free for all.

 

[landlover]

i could see it going to ratio's, with a 1 year seat lock when the list gets combined. for example if you are 35% from the top at rah or midwest you are now 35% from the top at the new mega-regi-ational airline, but hold you seat for a year. after the year is up, start bidding with the masses.