How lemons can be turned into lemonade...

[82spukram]

Better question what does fair and equable mean? Did a RAH pilot every really expect to get A320's or B717's on property? Can they honestly make an argument with 2 E190 coming on board justifies relative seniority for 1100 fellow pilots’ currently flying aircraft that as recently as May was not even on the horizon for RAH? Or is their argument the one that AWA and USAIR are currently caught up in. Who knows I definitely do not because I thought that in late July JetBlue was going to announce that we were going merge with F9 and that obviously did not happen. (And for those who are going to grade my post I am sure it is full of mistakes that the nuns use to beat me for when I was in grade school so enjoy)

 

[Browntothebone]

Better question what does fair and equable mean? Did a RAH pilot every really expect to get A320's or B717's on property? Can they honestly make an argument with 2 E190 coming on board justifies relative seniority for 1100 fellow pilots’ currently flying aircraft that as recently as May was not even on the horizon for RAH? Or is their argument the one that AWA and USAIR are currently caught up in. Who knows I definitely do not because I thought that in late July JetBlue was going to announce that we were going merge with F9 and that obviously did not happen. (And for those who are going to grade my post I am sure it is full of mistakes that the nuns use to beat me for when I was in grade school so enjoy)

But one can make the argument that working for RAH, one does have the expectation of flying something bigger than an RJ.

 

[fob727]

I just can't see the NMB allowing the merging of lists of 2 majors with 1 regional. This would set a terrible president to allow regional pilots not having to be stapled to a mainline list.

BTB, you're a troll. The only time you post is where you can star some sh*t.

 

[OpenClimb]

Minimaniac--

I appreciate your attempt to acknowledge the concerns of the Frontier pilot group. But all the talk about working together as a united front is nothing more than a platitude. Good fealings and campfires don't mean much to my creditors.

So: Does a 5 year FO at Frontier belong ahead of or behind a E190 captain on the merged list?

Keep in mind that there are a bunch of 5 year FO's at Frontier who flew BE-1900's for Lakes or Mesa, then went to Mesaba/Air Wisconsin/Eagle for another 2-5 years and then finally got on with Frontier.

Personally, I'm an FO with 5 years' seniority at Frontier and another 5 years split between 2 of the above-referenced carriers. I could be in the top 10% of any of the above small-jet carriers by now if I had stayed. Instead, I moved up the career progression ladder and am now roughly in the top third of the FO list at Frontier.

Should I be pushed back to small-jet FO? Should I assume the position of small-jet captain? Or should the Frontier pilots be stapled to the bottom of a combined list due to low "career expectations" because Frontier is in bankruptcy?

These are the questions that give rise to hard fealings.

 

[jravi8tor]

It's not there fault that there company failed.

The word Citationlover was referring to as being misspelled is "there". You should have used THEIR instead of there. There refers to "look right over there".

Spelling might not help you fly an airplane, but it sure says alot about you as a person and your education and ability to put together a paragraph.


Furloughed MIDEX now RAH

 

[lookin4better]

Minimaniac--

I appreciate your attempt to acknowledge the concerns of the Frontier pilot group. But all the talk about working together as a united front is nothing more than a platitude. Good fealings and campfires don't mean much to my creditors.

So: Does a 5 year FO at Frontier belong ahead of or behind a E190 captain on the merged list?

Keep in mind that there are a bunch of 5 year FO's at Frontier who flew BE-1900's for Lakes or Mesa, then went to Mesaba/Air Wisconsin/Eagle for another 2-5 years and then finally got on with Frontier.

Personally, I'm an FO with 5 years' seniority at Frontier and another 5 years split between 2 of the above-referenced carriers. I could be in the top 10% of any of the above small-jet carriers by now if I had stayed. Instead, I moved up the career progression ladder and am now roughly in the top third of the FO list at Frontier.

Should I be pushed back to small-jet FO? Should I assume the position of small-jet captain? Or should the Frontier pilots be stapled to the bottom of a combined list due to low "career expectations" because Frontier is in bankruptcy?

These are the questions that give rise to hard fealings.

Great point! Its about " career expectations " ..... its easily argued that pilots at RAH did not expect to fly bigger planes at that company.... You should not be below any current FO's at RAH....for the exact reasons you laid out above.

 

[ultrarunner]

So, what are the career expectation of a MidEx pilot flying for an outfit with 9 airframes?

They have been assimilated!

 

[CitationLover]

So, what are the career expectation of a MidEx pilot flying for an outfit with 9 airframes?

They have been assimilated!

Crappy going on crappier. But in terms of earning power a lot more than any Republic pilot. If I never upgraded at Midwest I'd have earned more than 95% of their pilots.

 

[OpenClimb]

Great point! Its about " career expectations " ..... its easily argued that pilots at RAH did not expect to fly bigger planes at that company.... You should not be below any current FO's at RAH....for the exact reasons you laid out above.

Thank you for trying to agree with me, but I'll play devil's advocate--against my own interests.

Seniority relative to RAH FO's: OK. I accept your assertion. I shouldn't be below any FO's at RAH. I'm not sure the RAH FO's would agree with this, but I'll accept it for sake of continued discussion. The next question: Should I be below any RAH Captains? Does the answer change if we say that all Frontier FO's will have an opportunity to be Airbus Captains before any current RAH captains are allowed to be Airbus captains? And, further, we say that no Frontier pilot may be an RAH captain?

Personally, I'd be thrilled to stay an Airbus FO at our pre-concession payrates and terms until my seniority among Frontier pilots allowed me an opportunity to upgrade on an Airbus. This would mean that no RAH pilot would be able to upgrade on the Airbus before me. Seems logical enough to me, but I can also see where RAH pilots might take exception with this plan. After all, it's _their_ company that survived and thrived such that their company bailed my employer out of bankruptcy.

"Career Expectations?" Based on my expectations at what point? When I was first hired at a Part 121 carrier 10 years ago? When I left a pretty decent small-jet carrier and went to Frontier a little over 5 years ago? Or now? When my Company has been operating under bankruptcy protection for the past 14 months?

Right now, I'd have to admit that my expectations with regard to my airline career are at an all-time low!

 

[Avi8tor2000]

Minimaniac--

I appreciate your attempt to acknowledge the concerns of the Frontier pilot group. But all the talk about working together as a united front is nothing more than a platitude. Good fealings and campfires don't mean much to my creditors.

So: Does a 5 year FO at Frontier belong ahead of or behind a E190 captain on the merged list?

Keep in mind that there are a bunch of 5 year FO's at Frontier who flew BE-1900's for Lakes or Mesa, then went to Mesaba/Air Wisconsin/Eagle for another 2-5 years and then finally got on with Frontier.

Personally, I'm an FO with 5 years' seniority at Frontier and another 5 years split between 2 of the above-referenced carriers. I could be in the top 10% of any of the above small-jet carriers by now if I had stayed. Instead, I moved up the career progression ladder and am now roughly in the top third of the FO list at Frontier.

Should I be pushed back to small-jet FO? Should I assume the position of small-jet captain? Or should the Frontier pilots be stapled to the bottom of a combined list due to low "career expectations" because Frontier is in bankruptcy?

These are the questions that give rise to hard fealings.

But this is America, and while we all have the right to the pursuit of happiness there is no guarantee of it. If you work for a company that goes out of business or bankrupt, how does that give you a right to a higher position than others at a different company, regardless of what company that is? When Bear Sterns collapsed, did their workers get merged into JP Morgan when they claimed their assets? I guarantee most of their employees paid their dues as well. I too put in my time at Lakes and I too was hired by Frontier. Instead of taking it when their future was uncertain, I decided job security was more important to me than flying bigger airplanes. Should I be pushed down the list by ultimately making the right decision?

Obviously there are many different scenarios for many different pilots. Personally I would like to see a fence around the entire F9 mainline operation for quite some time. This would preserve your seniority regardless of where any intergration placed you on a joined list. THERE WILL BE NO STAPLE. There are a lot of people using that word around here which is disgusting to see.