How is the Corp. world?

[Steepturn]

I'm currently at a regional and thinking about going to the corporate side and wanted some honest opinions on QOL, pay, etc...
I want to make an informed decision and was hoping for some feedback.

Thanks,
Steepturn

 

[Lead Sled]

I'm currently at a regional and thinking about going to the corporate side and wanted some honest opinions on QOL, pay, etc...
I want to make an informed decision and was hoping for some feedback.

If you find the right job you'll wake up every morning pinching yourself to see if it's really true. If you don't find the right job you'll wake up every morning dreading the thought that you have to go to work - just like it is now with a regional. Steepturn, come to the darkside. You can do it.

'Sled

 

[Gulfstream 200]

No different than the airline world.

There are jobs that pay 16K/yr and there are jobs that pay 300K/yr.

QOL varies just as much.

There is hiring going on in the corp world but the decent jobs are most likely NOT filled by regional pilots. Just like the airlines, corp jobs are being vacated by Viet era guys nearing retirement.

Not to deter you or burst your bubble but regional pilot resume may wind up at the bottom of the stack (at best) for a good job....but the other side of it the entry level job (charter/on demand) etc may have a spot for you...

Like always, there is no lack of qualified pilots. Its not like they are trying ot fill a class of 20 pilots making less than 20K/yr.

Good Luck!

If you have specifics about areas or companies just ask. You will get help. Keep in mind its the web...I have seen wildly innaccurate info passed around on my own and other companies!

one thing for sure, with a decent corp gig you wont want to go back to airlines...especially after the last 4-5 yrs.

 

[Dangerkitty]

No different than the airline world.

There are jobs that pay 16K/yr and there are jobs that pay 300K/yr.

QOL varies just as much.

There is hiring going on in the corp world but the decent jobs are most likely NOT filled by regional pilots. Just like the airlines, corp jobs are being vacated by Viet era guys nearing retirement.

Not to deter you or burst your bubble but regional pilot resume may wind up at the bottom of the stack (at best) for a good job....but the other side of it the entry level job (charter/on demand) etc may have a spot for you...

Like always, there is no lack of qualified pilots. Its not like they are trying ot fill a class of 20 pilots making less than 20K/yr.

Good Luck!

If you have specifics about areas or companies just ask. You will get help. Keep in mind its the web...I have seen wildly innaccurate info passed around on my own and other companies!

one thing for sure, with a decent corp gig you wont want to go back to airlines...especially after the last 4-5 yrs.

Gulfstream 200 speaks the truth. After I was furloughed from AA I was treated like a leper in the Corporate World until I was able to get a Lear 60 job that typed me on the 60. Once I got that Corporate Jet type and a few months of Corporate flying I was offered a few jobs and had to turn several down.

I am now at the job of my dreams and WILL NOT be going back to American.
However I have been very very very lucky and was in the right place at the right time.

 

[semperfido]

most all the corp guys i have been associated with over the last 20 yrs have been fairly well satisfied with their jobs. evidenced by zero turn- over at the places i have worked. that is not to say there are plenty of not-so-good places as well. there is a huge disparity between either end of the spectrum. timing is everything.

 

[Steepturn]

Any good corp. jobs in IL. I had an idea most corp. places didn't like Airline guys, but I didn't think that they really wouldn't hire someone because of it. Just to let you guys know, I'm not one of those SJS guys either. I fly a turboprop and work my tail off. I really appreciate all of the feedback so far. Any advice on how to break into the corp. side would be great. Once again thanks for the quality posts.

Steepturn

 

[jasonwb]

"Any advice on how to break into the corp. side would be great"

Network,Network,Network.......................

Good Luck!

jb

 

[sydeseet]

Any good corp. jobs in IL. I had an idea most corp. places didn't like Airline guys, but I didn't think that they really wouldn't hire someone because of it. Just to let you guys know, I'm not one of those SJS guys either. I fly a turboprop and work my tail off. I really appreciate all of the feedback so far. Any advice on how to break into the corp. side would be great. Once again thanks for the quality posts.

Steepturn

It isn't that airline pilots are black-listed from the corporate world it's that most department managers have interviewed a few to many of the "I'm to experienced to fly right seat in a lear and fetch ice & coffee" crowd to even give them the time of day anymore. It DOES NOT MATTER what you have been flying or where you've been flying it. What matters is that you can demonstrate a concern for customer service even if it requires fetching a roll of toilet paper for the CEO's bratty little kid. True story. Many airline folks hear about some of the things I've done for passengers and roll their eyes with great disdain. Not exactly the attitude that a successful business person is willing to put up with.

I was recently, VERY RECENTLY in fact, offered the last position I ever intend to pursue. It happened so fast that my head is still spinning but when the spinning stops I'm going to find myself in the middle of a very sweet dream that I doubt will ever end. I was hired over the top of a stack of airline resumes with far more jet PIC time because I have a solid history of general aviation experience and I came across as someone willing to fetch a cup of coffee for the CEO without losing the smile that I greeted him with.

If customer service the Ritz Carlton way is okay with you and you're willing to work the trenches in an on-call King Air or Lear for a little while then you should do just fine. Those are the typical entry level corporate jobs, even for folks with several years of airline experience. After that; network like crazy and you may just get lucky.

SS

 

[say again]

If you find the right job you'll wake up every morning pinching yourself to see if it's really true. If you don't find the right job you'll wake up every morning dreading the thought that you have to go to work - just like it is now with a regional. Steepturn, come to the darkside. You can do it.

'Sled

I'm an airline guy (furloughed) who turned corp. I have to say that I definately had a better time at the airlines . The people, travelling, my shedule (surprisingly good) were great. That being said, I'm making a helluva lot more money where I am now. If I had the chance to go back to the airlines now, I would have to say no. Do I want to get back into the airlines?? Yes. Job security and pay are the leading factors. Unless I find the "perfect" corp gig, I do see myself heading back in that direction. I will not go back to the regionals though, I'm thinking Southwest, JetBlue, etc and we all know it's quite difficult these days. Until any of these scenarios happen, I'm staying put where I am.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Really good advice from everyone here, but they are right....most good corporate departments tend to stay away from airline guys. With no corporate experience it'll be difficult in the extreme. You're already ahead of the game, because you have the total time, multi, turbine, and all that jazz that make you insurable. What you need now is type experience. Most departments are hard to convince to fork over $20K or so for initial training when they can hire Joe Blow who they only have to send to recurrent. Best thing to do is find an entry level charter job, preferably one where you can upgrade fast, get some corporate experience under your belt, a type rating or two, some PIC time, and you're good to go. Rebuild a resume highlighting any corporate experience you have, and fire them out. Calls will come.

I've done the regionals and the airlines also, and I'm paying my dues in 135 hell right now. But IMHO, the crappiest 135 job is head and shoulders better than the regionals. Even at my crappy charter job, I still get to spend a weekend at an all-inclusive resort in the Bahamas every once in a while....or a couple of days in Vega$, or some beach locale somewhere, or just a decent overnight to some town where I can get away from a while.....all on someone else's dime. I work less, make more money, and am actually treated OK by management, and this is at the bottom of the barrel!

Of course, it's your life and your career, just because I like it doesn't mean everyone does. Give it a shot. If you hate it, no biggie, go back to the airlines. Best of luck to ya!

 

[Lead Sled]

If I had the chance to go back to the airlines now, I would have to say no. Do I want to get back into the airlines?? Yes. Job security and pay are the leading factors. Unless I find the "perfect" corp gig, I do see myself heading back in that direction. I will not go back to the regionals though, I'm thinking Southwest, JetBlue, etc and we all know it's quite difficult these days. Until any of these scenarios happen, I'm staying put where I am.

That is precisely why corporate flight department managers are so frequently loath to hire furloughed airline guys. It costs a bunch of money to get someone up to speed and keep them current. It's a poor investment if the guy is a "flight risk" (pardon the pun) and is even contemplating a return to 121. We recently lost a pilot to 121, and it left a bad taste in our bosses mouth. If we were ever to hire another furloughed or ex-121 type I'd ask them to resign their seniority number.

'Sled

 

[AA717driver]

I am now at the job of my dreams and WILL NOT be going back to American.

What's the matter? 20 days a month on reserve for the next 5 years not appeal to you? I have a friend who will put a bounty on my head if I even think of going back...

As I've said before, corporate is a HUGE adjustment for those who have never done it. A lot of airline guys simply don't like the job. Sure, if I could go back to TWA in the summer of '01 I'd do it in a heartbeat. But I can't. It doesn't exist anymore--and I'm not just talking about TWA. The airline business has changed forever.

I'm sure the senior guys at AirTran, JB and SWA are having a good time--but, unlike corporate, there are no lateral moves in the airline biz.

Besides, after a couple of years of not commuting, I'm pretty set in my ways. Or maybe it's just the free vacations courtesy of Marriott Rewards... TC

 

[semperfido]

I have known many furloughed airline pilots that went corporate during my career. the majority never went back- just a couple that went back only to be kicked to the curb a couple years later. crawled back with tail between legs to be rehired, which they were. just depends. timing is everything.

 

[SLFLYHI]

Ok, I'll be the long voice of descent in this discussion. I flew for a regional, was furloughed right after 9/11, got a corporate job flying a Citation. The pay was fantastic - far more than I'd ever make at the airline. The hotels we stayed at: top notch, and we kept the points. I didn't have any problems with the service aspect of the business (loading luggage, serving catering, etc), I actually thought some of it was fun.

The problem with corporate/charter/fractionals is very simply schedule. The schedule was so bad that I could never plan to do anything with anyone. All the money I was making sure bought a lot of beers at hotels in strange cities, but didn't help me all that much on the home front.

In the end, I returned to my regional when recalled and it was the right decision for me. I'm happy with the schedule and can manipulate it enough that I've gotten a fun side-job that pays well. Also, IMHO the flying is a lot better at the regional I fly at - and safer too. Sure, the pay still stinks, and well, the hotels mostly suck, but the lesson I learned is that schedule rules and many corporate gigs have none.

Best of luck in whatever you decide.

 

[semperfido]

just goes to show-- diff strokes fo diff folks.

 

[CapnVegetto]

just goes to show-- diff strokes fo diff folks.

Amen bro. Take me for example: I just don't mind being on call. Never have. I have scheduled days off, vacation time, etc, so the rest of the time, when I'm on call, I just don't care. I plan stuff on my days off, and the rest of the time, I just play golf or whatever.

I am also a huge fan of sleeping in my own bed almost every night.

 

[English]

I am also a huge fan of sleeping in my own bed almost every night.

YES!!!!

 

[Lead Sled]

The problem with corporate/charter/fractionals is very simply schedule. The schedule was so bad that I could never plan to do anything with anyone. All the money I was making sure bought a lot of beers at hotels in strange cities, but didn't help me all that much on the home front.

Please don't mixup corporate flying with charter/fractional flying. It ain't the same beast. Charter/Fractional flying sucks. It's at the bottom rung of the flying ladder.

'Sled

 

[Lead Sled]

YES!!!!

English...
You're a huge fan of sleeping in CapnVetto's bed every night???

Just wondering, I don't think that came across the way you meant it.

'Sled

 

[English]

Uh....wait a minute....


I love sleeping in MY bed every night.


Almost had a furr ball.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Dammit.....I didn't catch that Lead. I DID only get a 67 on the 'good with women' test on the Non-Aviation Related Chat forum. I guess I suck.

 

[English]

I guess I suck.

Now if I were Lead I would latch on to this statement...

 

[CapnVegetto]

Now if I were Lead I would latch on to this statement...

EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Stearmandriver]

Dammit.....I didn't catch that Lead. I DID only get a 67 on the 'good with women' test on the Non-Aviation Related Chat forum. I guess I suck.

Only 2 short of a perfect score!!!

 

[Dangerkitty]

What's the matter? 20 days a month on reserve for the next 5 years not appeal to you? I have a friend who will put a bounty on my head if I even think of going back...

As I've said before, corporate is a HUGE adjustment for those who have never done it. A lot of airline guys simply don't like the job. Sure, if I could go back to TWA in the summer of '01 I'd do it in a heartbeat. But I can't. It doesn't exist anymore--and I'm not just talking about TWA. The airline business has changed forever.

I'm sure the senior guys at AirTran, JB and SWA are having a good time--but, unlike corporate, there are no lateral moves in the airline biz.

Besides, after a couple of years of not commuting, I'm pretty set in my ways. Or maybe it's just the free vacations courtesy of Marriott Rewards... TC

You know when I was at American I couldn't imagine flying for anyone else or going back to any other lifestyle. Now that I have better pay, holidays off, almost every weekend off (with the exception of a few), much better schedule, no union/company pissing matches, retirement pension that I know will be there in 30 years, great hotels to sleep in and great restaurants to eat in, no TSA, no FA's (sorry FA's but you began to get on my nerves), Hilton Points, Marriot Points, Sheraton Points, Avtrip Points, and of course NO COMMUTING!!!!

I hope that if I did try to go back to AA someone would admit me for a psychological evaluation.

Sorry Gerard but AA blows and I dont ever wanna work there again.

 

[cezzna]

QOL does vary greatly. I'm corporate and on call most of the time. That being said in five years I've been called to get to the airport for a same day flight about 3 or 4 times. I think most quality corp jobs are like this. You may be on call during business hours but RARELY get called in. I spend about 75 nights a year away from home. I eat what I want, when I want as much as I want. Unless I eat at Ruth Chris or Mortons steakhouse, it won't be questioned. I have tons of hotel points, never have to buy a night again.I Stay where I want outside of the Ritz Carleton. If the Ritz is all I can find, I'll stay there no questions asked. After a few years you trust the company and they trust you not to try and screw them over. Pay is good, benies are good,retirement is secure.

We've interviewed regional guys before and most weren't very sharp about regs and basic knowledge. I think part of the airline menality is there are so many rules and people looking out for you that you can't screw up and become lax in self sufficiency. In the corp world it's all on you to make sure everything goes off without a hitch. The flying is usually the easy part. Catering,weather,fuel decisions,airport decisions, transportation for the pax.,maintenance on the road, pulling the plane in and out of the hangar, etc. Most airline guys don't know how to think outside of the cockpit.

If you want a job, you have to show you REALLY want it. if you find a place you want to work for show up often and update them often. If your just a resume dropper once a year you'll be soon forgotten. That's how I got my first corp gig, persistence. Don't take no for an answer but don't be annoying either. A big part of any interview is " Can I stand to be with this guy in Teterboro for 5 days".

Good luck

 

[SLFLYHI]

We've interviewed regional guys before and most weren't very sharp about regs and basic knowledge. I think part of the airline menality is there are so many rules and people looking out for you that you can't screw up and become lax in self sufficiency. In the corp world it's all on you to make sure everything goes off without a hitch. The flying is usually the easy part. Catering,weather,fuel decisions,airport decisions, transportation for the pax.,maintenance on the road, pulling the plane in and out of the hangar, etc. Most airline guys don't know how to think outside of the cockpit.


Good luck

Great post. Everything you said is 100% accurate. When I was flying the Citation, I did all the flight planning, airport, fuel - there was a lot more "work" involved than there is flying for the airlines. That being said, I find it better to have a dispatcher, customer service agents, caterers, etc. doing most of the grunt work because it let's me focus entirely on flying the aircraft and dealing with our biggest challenge - the weather. Also, we have ACARS, so the ability to consult with a licensed, trained person, while in flight, is IMHO a great safety benefit that we didn't have flying the Citation.

I will lament that I was far more knowledgable about all the other items when I was in the Citation, however, not having to worry about those things has made me a better pilot - but not necessarily a better aviator.

 

[Bandit60]

Great post. Everything you said is 100% accurate. When I was flying the Citation, I did all the flight planning, airport, fuel - there was a lot more "work" involved than there is flying for the airlines. That being said, I find it better to have a dispatcher, customer service agents, caterers, etc. doing most of the grunt work because it let's me focus entirely on flying the aircraft and dealing with our biggest challenge - the weather. Also, we have ACARS, so the ability to consult with a licensed, trained person, while in flight, is IMHO a great safety benefit that we didn't have flying the Citation.

I will lament that I was far more knowledgable about all the other items when I was in the Citation, however, not having to worry about those things has made me a better pilot - but not necessarily a better aviator.

Just wondering how ACARS made it much safer. I have AFIS and XM weather available to me in the cockpit and if all else fails i have a sat phone. I have not flown on as an airline pilot so I dont know what a "licensed, trained person" is going to do for me. Remember, I am the PIC and it is my responsiblity to make the final decision.

 

[Spooky 1]

QOL does vary greatly. I'm corporate and on call most of the time. That being said in five years I've been called to get to the airport for a same day flight about 3 or 4 times. I think most quality corp jobs are like this. You may be on call during business hours but RARELY get called in. I spend about 75 nights a year away from home. I eat what I want, when I want as much as I want. Unless I eat at Ruth Chris or Mortons steakhouse, it won't be questioned. I have tons of hotel points, never have to buy a night again.I Stay where I want outside of the Ritz Carleton. If the Ritz is all I can find, I'll stay there no questions asked. After a few years you trust the company and they trust you not to try and screw them over. Pay is good, benies are good,retirement is secure.

We've interviewed regional guys before and most weren't very sharp about regs and basic knowledge. I think part of the airline menality is there are so many rules and people looking out for you that you can't screw up and become lax in self sufficiency. In the corp world it's all on you to make sure everything goes off without a hitch. The flying is usually the easy part. Catering,weather,fuel decisions,airport decisions, transportation for the pax.,maintenance on the road, pulling the plane in and out of the hangar, etc. Most airline guys don't know how to think outside of the cockpit.

If you want a job, you have to show you REALLY want it. if you find a place you want to work for show up often and update them often. If your just a resume dropper once a year you'll be soon forgotten. That's how I got my first corp gig, persistence. Don't take no for an answer but don't be annoying either. A big part of any interview is " Can I stand to be with this guy in Teterboro for 5 days".

Good luck

Generally well said and spot on. I might take some exception to the airline pilot issue as a was one once upon a time. Just a different animal, but very trainable and ususally comes with fairly good skills if not all the tribal knowledge necessary to complete a round the world trip without a hugh dispatch safety net.

 

[SLFLYHI]

Just wondering how ACARS made it much safer. I have AFIS and XM weather available to me in the cockpit and if all else fails i have a sat phone. I have not flown on as an airline pilot so I dont know what a "licensed, trained person" is going to do for me. Remember, I am the PIC and it is my responsiblity to make the final decision.

Sounds like you have a lot of resources at hand that I never had in the old Citation. Certainly if you can find a flight department that has AFIS/XM, you're better off than not having it. And you're right - ultimately, you are the PIC and the buck stops with you. My only point was that in the airlines we have tools and people to assist with decision making that were not available to me flying the other way.