How is the Corp. world?

[CapnVegetto]

Dammit.....I didn't catch that Lead. I DID only get a 67 on the 'good with women' test on the Non-Aviation Related Chat forum. I guess I suck.

 

[English]

I guess I suck.

Now if I were Lead I would latch on to this statement...

 

[CapnVegetto]

Now if I were Lead I would latch on to this statement...

EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Stearmandriver]

Dammit.....I didn't catch that Lead. I DID only get a 67 on the 'good with women' test on the Non-Aviation Related Chat forum. I guess I suck.

Only 2 short of a perfect score!!!

 

[Dangerkitty]

What's the matter? 20 days a month on reserve for the next 5 years not appeal to you? I have a friend who will put a bounty on my head if I even think of going back...

As I've said before, corporate is a HUGE adjustment for those who have never done it. A lot of airline guys simply don't like the job. Sure, if I could go back to TWA in the summer of '01 I'd do it in a heartbeat. But I can't. It doesn't exist anymore--and I'm not just talking about TWA. The airline business has changed forever.

I'm sure the senior guys at AirTran, JB and SWA are having a good time--but, unlike corporate, there are no lateral moves in the airline biz.

Besides, after a couple of years of not commuting, I'm pretty set in my ways. Or maybe it's just the free vacations courtesy of Marriott Rewards... TC

You know when I was at American I couldn't imagine flying for anyone else or going back to any other lifestyle. Now that I have better pay, holidays off, almost every weekend off (with the exception of a few), much better schedule, no union/company pissing matches, retirement pension that I know will be there in 30 years, great hotels to sleep in and great restaurants to eat in, no TSA, no FA's (sorry FA's but you began to get on my nerves), Hilton Points, Marriot Points, Sheraton Points, Avtrip Points, and of course NO COMMUTING!!!!

I hope that if I did try to go back to AA someone would admit me for a psychological evaluation.

Sorry Gerard but AA blows and I dont ever wanna work there again.

 

[cezzna]

QOL does vary greatly. I'm corporate and on call most of the time. That being said in five years I've been called to get to the airport for a same day flight about 3 or 4 times. I think most quality corp jobs are like this. You may be on call during business hours but RARELY get called in. I spend about 75 nights a year away from home. I eat what I want, when I want as much as I want. Unless I eat at Ruth Chris or Mortons steakhouse, it won't be questioned. I have tons of hotel points, never have to buy a night again.I Stay where I want outside of the Ritz Carleton. If the Ritz is all I can find, I'll stay there no questions asked. After a few years you trust the company and they trust you not to try and screw them over. Pay is good, benies are good,retirement is secure.

We've interviewed regional guys before and most weren't very sharp about regs and basic knowledge. I think part of the airline menality is there are so many rules and people looking out for you that you can't screw up and become lax in self sufficiency. In the corp world it's all on you to make sure everything goes off without a hitch. The flying is usually the easy part. Catering,weather,fuel decisions,airport decisions, transportation for the pax.,maintenance on the road, pulling the plane in and out of the hangar, etc. Most airline guys don't know how to think outside of the cockpit.

If you want a job, you have to show you REALLY want it. if you find a place you want to work for show up often and update them often. If your just a resume dropper once a year you'll be soon forgotten. That's how I got my first corp gig, persistence. Don't take no for an answer but don't be annoying either. A big part of any interview is " Can I stand to be with this guy in Teterboro for 5 days".

Good luck

 

[SLFLYHI]

We've interviewed regional guys before and most weren't very sharp about regs and basic knowledge. I think part of the airline menality is there are so many rules and people looking out for you that you can't screw up and become lax in self sufficiency. In the corp world it's all on you to make sure everything goes off without a hitch. The flying is usually the easy part. Catering,weather,fuel decisions,airport decisions, transportation for the pax.,maintenance on the road, pulling the plane in and out of the hangar, etc. Most airline guys don't know how to think outside of the cockpit.


Good luck

Great post. Everything you said is 100% accurate. When I was flying the Citation, I did all the flight planning, airport, fuel - there was a lot more "work" involved than there is flying for the airlines. That being said, I find it better to have a dispatcher, customer service agents, caterers, etc. doing most of the grunt work because it let's me focus entirely on flying the aircraft and dealing with our biggest challenge - the weather. Also, we have ACARS, so the ability to consult with a licensed, trained person, while in flight, is IMHO a great safety benefit that we didn't have flying the Citation.

I will lament that I was far more knowledgable about all the other items when I was in the Citation, however, not having to worry about those things has made me a better pilot - but not necessarily a better aviator.

 

[Bandit60]

Great post. Everything you said is 100% accurate. When I was flying the Citation, I did all the flight planning, airport, fuel - there was a lot more "work" involved than there is flying for the airlines. That being said, I find it better to have a dispatcher, customer service agents, caterers, etc. doing most of the grunt work because it let's me focus entirely on flying the aircraft and dealing with our biggest challenge - the weather. Also, we have ACARS, so the ability to consult with a licensed, trained person, while in flight, is IMHO a great safety benefit that we didn't have flying the Citation.

I will lament that I was far more knowledgable about all the other items when I was in the Citation, however, not having to worry about those things has made me a better pilot - but not necessarily a better aviator.

Just wondering how ACARS made it much safer. I have AFIS and XM weather available to me in the cockpit and if all else fails i have a sat phone. I have not flown on as an airline pilot so I dont know what a "licensed, trained person" is going to do for me. Remember, I am the PIC and it is my responsiblity to make the final decision.

 

[Spooky 1]

QOL does vary greatly. I'm corporate and on call most of the time. That being said in five years I've been called to get to the airport for a same day flight about 3 or 4 times. I think most quality corp jobs are like this. You may be on call during business hours but RARELY get called in. I spend about 75 nights a year away from home. I eat what I want, when I want as much as I want. Unless I eat at Ruth Chris or Mortons steakhouse, it won't be questioned. I have tons of hotel points, never have to buy a night again.I Stay where I want outside of the Ritz Carleton. If the Ritz is all I can find, I'll stay there no questions asked. After a few years you trust the company and they trust you not to try and screw them over. Pay is good, benies are good,retirement is secure.

We've interviewed regional guys before and most weren't very sharp about regs and basic knowledge. I think part of the airline menality is there are so many rules and people looking out for you that you can't screw up and become lax in self sufficiency. In the corp world it's all on you to make sure everything goes off without a hitch. The flying is usually the easy part. Catering,weather,fuel decisions,airport decisions, transportation for the pax.,maintenance on the road, pulling the plane in and out of the hangar, etc. Most airline guys don't know how to think outside of the cockpit.

If you want a job, you have to show you REALLY want it. if you find a place you want to work for show up often and update them often. If your just a resume dropper once a year you'll be soon forgotten. That's how I got my first corp gig, persistence. Don't take no for an answer but don't be annoying either. A big part of any interview is " Can I stand to be with this guy in Teterboro for 5 days".

Good luck

Generally well said and spot on. I might take some exception to the airline pilot issue as a was one once upon a time. Just a different animal, but very trainable and ususally comes with fairly good skills if not all the tribal knowledge necessary to complete a round the world trip without a hugh dispatch safety net.

 

[SLFLYHI]

Just wondering how ACARS made it much safer. I have AFIS and XM weather available to me in the cockpit and if all else fails i have a sat phone. I have not flown on as an airline pilot so I dont know what a "licensed, trained person" is going to do for me. Remember, I am the PIC and it is my responsiblity to make the final decision.

Sounds like you have a lot of resources at hand that I never had in the old Citation. Certainly if you can find a flight department that has AFIS/XM, you're better off than not having it. And you're right - ultimately, you are the PIC and the buck stops with you. My only point was that in the airlines we have tools and people to assist with decision making that were not available to me flying the other way.

 

[bicycle]

I agree, most of us get pretty spoiled in the airlines. As with everything else you cant judge an entire group of pilots based on what they are used to. Some airlines do mostly charter work and not the nice caribbean kind, but the crappy mid east , africa and any other armpit, and are quite used to being self reliant. Having said that, there is A LOT to be said for switching to corp. Its been my experience though, that unless you have been cutivating your relations with friends and connection in the corp world even when you were flying the airlines, it is very hard to break into cold. Its a different world and you need to adapt. The airlines are not what they used to be and they never will. So if anyones got a line on a job on Long Island , let me know.

 

[cezzna]

Another thing airline guys have to get used to is the team mentality. I've never flown airline but have heard many stories of pissing matches between pilots and mechanics. In the corporate world, you know, trust and respect the mechanics. I treat our mechanics at the very least as equal to me. His job is just as hard if not harder than mine. We shoot the breeze, are good friends, and I trust him with my life. We communicate with each other face to face on mx. issues in detail. Things still get written up, but that is mostly for the FAA. I think it's hard for some pilots to get used to that, and if they view mechanics as below them, then corp. is not for you.

We had some part time mechanics from an airline once. They were astounded that the pilots were generally responsible for tugging the airplanes in and out of our hangar. They couldn't believe that us pompous pilots wouldn't make the mechanics do it. Total culture shock to them. Corp flying has a big advantage in this area of mx-pilot communication.

 

[say again]

Another thing airline guys have to get used to is the team mentality. I've never flown airline but have heard many stories of pissing matches between pilots and mechanics. In the corporate world, you know, trust and respect the mechanics. I treat our mechanics at the very least as equal to me. His job is just as hard if not harder than mine. We shoot the breeze, are good friends, and I trust him with my life. We communicate with each other face to face on mx. issues in detail. Things still get written up, but that is mostly for the FAA. I think it's hard for some pilots to get used to that, and if they view mechanics as below them, then corp. is not for you.

We had some part time mechanics from an airline once. They were astounded that the pilots were generally responsible for tugging the airplanes in and out of our hangar. They couldn't believe that us pompous pilots wouldn't make the mechanics do it. Total culture shock to them. Corp flying has a big advantage in this area of mx-pilot communication.

i have to disagree with this. at the airlines, it's not the pilots job to tug their planes, nor the mechanics, though some did to help. CRM at the airlines is, in my mind, far superior to that of the corp world. there is more of a team mentality because we deal with dispatchers, fa's, rampers, schedulers, ticket agents, etc.

As for not getting along with mech, that's BS. We used to shoot the $hit, fix the problems, and get on our way. After work we'd get together and have some drinks and party like friends, in which we were.

 

[bicycle]

Yeah, I agree with say again. We bring ou mx crews with around the world. They are the hardest working and brightest mecs I have ever worked with. Not one airliner moves without the help and coordination of many many people, all with varying different backrounds and skill levels and its usually the capt responsibilty to make sure it all happens. And it works most of the time. Its true we dont pull planes out of hangers, but it is a far cry from just shutting the engines and walking off the jetway. anyway its just different, But flyin is flyin.

 

[Steepturn]

I don't have a problem with the situations that many of you have described (loading bags, getting along and treating the mx people well, etc..), I do that now at the airline I work for anyway. I'm just sick, as I'm sure many people are, of the way the airlines have been and are going. I have a family to think about and want something as stable as possible in our industry. So I would like to get into the corp. world with a good company. I didn't think it would be easy either, and that's what I gather from all of your replies. But I thank all of you for your honest opinions and suggestions. I will give them a shot. And if anyone knows of some good places in IL. that I could possibly drop a resume to I would appreciate it. Thanks once again everyone for quality posts. I'll keep checking back for more suggestions and such.


Steepturn

 

[Bandit60]

Sounds like you have a lot of resources at hand that I never had in the old Citation. Certainly if you can find a flight department that has AFIS/XM, you're better off than not having it. And you're right - ultimately, you are the PIC and the buck stops with you. My only point was that in the airlines we have tools and people to assist with decision making that were not available to me flying the other way.

You sound like a class act. Would fly with you anyday.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

I feel pretty qualified to offer my two cents.

After all, I was born and bred airline.

As I mentioned on other threads, i've worked for 5 different airlines. 3 regionals (one who I worked for twice), an LCC, and a major airline.

Most recently though, I find myself working for a fortune 500 company. I have NEVER had as good a schedule, or as positive a working environment as I have at this company. Never.

Until this year I spent just about every weekend and holiday for the last ten years away from home. I spent countless nights in hotel rooms.

Now, i'm home nearly every night. Nearly every weekend. and Almost every holiday. Home in my own bed, with my family.

At the airlines I was just a number. Here i'm a person with a name. My supervisors know who I am. They know me by name. They know my stregnths, my weaknesses, and my concerns -- and they take the time to address them! They give me the opportunity to take ownership in the operation. I never had the opportunity to do anything other than bid a schedule at the airlines.

As far as i'm concerned this is the best kept secret in aviation. Leaving the airlines was one of the best decisions i've made in my life. (I put it right up there with getting married and adopting a dog!)

Will it last until retirement? Beats me. But I have every reason to believe that is is 1000% more stable than my jobs at the airlines ever were.

A corporate pilot wrote to me when I was contemplating making the move. He said, "Dont ever work for a company that makes its money by flying airplanes." I'm glad I took his advice. I'm happier than i've been flying airplanes in years. And, part of that happiness is being PROUD of the company I work for.

Boy... can't remember the last time I didn't feel ashamed of my company.

I'm with the American guy. If I decide to go back to USAirways if/when they call -- I hope one of you comes and knocks some sense into me!

Best of luck to you!

 

[semperfido]

Will it last until retirement? Beats me.

...if the terrorist attacks, bird flu pandemic, drunk drivers, cancers and misc other natural and un-natural disasters don't get you. enjoy it while it lasts!


....sorry - i was just reading the news before this

 

[AA717driver]

Semperfido--Now, now... Take a deep breath and switch the channel to SpongeBob. Everything will be ok. TC

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Semper has been "glass is 1/2 empty" lately....

cheer up FIDO!