Hmmmmmn!

[KiddDynomite]

Howard,

Thanks for the clarification but I'll once again have to say where I am at it's a boys club. I have tried, went through their little dance only to get tossed in favor of a friend of a friend. Once again connections, connections but I hear you.

 

[flyboyike]

There used to be some espirt de corp (or whatever that's called) that we shared amongst each other, but that's long gone since age 65 (among other things) has meant open season on the next guy in line for guys over 60.

Esprit de corps. I'm not sure there was ever any.

 

[waveflyer]

Kidd,

You didn't gain any useful connections during all this gas pumping, instructing, college, and flying experience??

But the problem isn't you?

I don't know you so that's just an honest question-
Though I'm none too pleased with boomers poaching our career for themselves with 65 and outsourcing, there are a lot that have ridden the same waves my man and it did work out...

 

[flyboyike]

Kidd,

You didn't gain any useful connections during all this gas pumping, instructing, college, and flying experience??

But the problem isn't you?

I don't know you so that's just an honest question-
Though I'm none too pleased with boomers poaching our career for themselves with 65 and outsourcing, there are a lot that have ridden the same waves my man and it did work out...

I can't speak for Kidd, but connections are all well and good when there are jobs for those connections to get you. Not so much when there aren't.

 

[Tripower455]

If you had a Bachelors Degree you would understand why it should be required.

LOL....

It's not just about the education; it's about showing dedication and busting your butt for 4 years straight to accomplish something that is considered "huge" in our society.

The only thing huge about a 4 year degree is the cost and debt you're likely to incur. In some fields, it is a necessary requirement. Flying airplanes is not one of them.

It's not a $ thing. There are 2 things in life that people will never regret spending money on: Their Kids and their University Degree.

There are a lot more things I will never regret spending money on than just these 2 examples.

 

[Whine Lover]

You are NOT gong to LIKE THIS...The TRUTH always hurts.

- Were you expected to go to Kindergarten?

- How about Elementary School?

- High School?

- College?

Which Level did you attain?

End Of Story.

STFU.

Love,

Whine

 

[Tripower455]

You are NOT gong to LIKE THIS...The TRUTH always hurts.

- Were you expected to go to Kindergarten?

- How about Elementary School?

- High School?

- College?

Which Level did you attain?

End Of Story.

STFU.

Love,

Whine

College! What do I win?

 

[KiddDynomite]

Kidd,

You didn't gain any useful connections during all this gas pumping, instructing, college, and flying experience??

But the problem isn't you?

I don't know you so that's just an honest question-
Though I'm none too pleased with boomers poaching our career for themselves with 65 and outsourcing, there are a lot that have ridden the same waves my man and it did work out...

I like how we assume and cast stones here. I did not have connections because all of my peers were in the same boat and the ones who did achieve the majors all did PFT. I for one was never going to do that because I was too busy busting my hump to pay for the oh so important college degree this thread is about which by the way is not aviation related. You also have to take into account area. I didn't live in an area that is popular. Most of the guys I knew left amd never came back and they cut ties. This is a cut throat business. I got mine screw you! The one connection I had at American who truly could have done something was all talk and no action. When it came to time put up his response was I used my one favor after years of telling me I'll get you in the door. Complete BS. Some have the luck others don't. I didn't and no I don't feel sorry for myself but I will say many of us, the vast majority of us in our forties never made because the number of jobs was not there. The wave is too late for us.

 

[DCAA320]

It really isn't all that hard to go to college and graduate.

Jesus, just get it done and stop whining.

If you didn't get it done, that's your fault, so stop whining.

It's not rocket science.

Questions?

 

[flyboyike]

I didn't and no I don't feel sorry for myself but I will say many of us, the vast majority of us in our forties never made because the number of jobs was not there. The wave is too late for us.

No worries, I'm 38, but I think the wave is too late for me as well.

 

[KiddDynomite]

No worries, I'm 38, but I think the wave is too late for me as well.

I wouldn't say so flyboyike! The 6 year difference in age between us could make a big difference. If you can catch this wave at the very beginning you will have about 25 years to invest. The question then will be how fast will you rise in the seniority list and can you miss the furloughs that we all know will one day again happen. For me it's stay and continue to fight to make my current job better.

 

[texman]

That's funny. I work at one of the most highly regarded airlines in the world, and I don't have a college degree. I believe that a college degree is absolutely meaningless WRT being a professional pilot. One of the greatest fleecings ever conjured in this world is the private university four year degree here in the US. I hope my children become plumbers or electricians, instead of spending 120k to be a barrista at Starbucks. The younger generation in this world is screwed by their seniors. No other way to put it.

Box

My friend went to Cathy and has a four year. He almost washed out of training. His class mate was a Air Force Academy grad. The Air Force dude washed out of training. This was some time ago. I have heard Cathy's training can be difficult.

 

[texman]

Makes for a more "well-rounded" individual, at least in the eyes of the HR folks. It's not debatable, sorry.

Yea, but HR people are not professional pilots, and have no clue about flying. Now that is not debatable.

I understand your comment about well-rounded.

 

[texman]

Entrepreneurs don't rely on someone else to believe in their ability or dedication. Entrepreneurs have nothing to prove to others since they are self starters that rely on themselves for talent and innovation. If you are an entrepreneur pilot you would be starting your own airline, not relying on a hiring board to access your skills and abilities. I'm not trying to "look down on others." I am simply stating that possessing the requisite skills to obtain a degree is a highly sought after accomplishment when selecting a new hire that may not necessarily use any of those university learned skills while carrying out the duties that a candidate was hired for.

I understand.

 

[boxjockey]

My friend went to Cathy and has a four year. He almost washed out of training. His class mate was a Air Force Academy grad. The Air Force dude washed out of training. This was some time ago. I have heard Cathy's training can be difficult.

Cathay's CHECKING dept is like nothing else I have ever experienced in professional aviation. It has ground up some very good pilots through the years. One of the reasons I'm interested in going elsewhere, with a bit better culture.

box

 

[General Lee]

No worries, I'm 38, but I think the wave is too late for me as well.

Oh come on Ike, stop the sad talk. There were guys in my class way back in the 90s that were 47 years old. You can do it...... Go watch Waterboy the movie for encouragement. "You can do it......!!!" The three legacies will retire 15,000 pilots total in the next ten years too. That always helps. Big retirements haven't really started yet, but they will.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[labbats]

This message is hidden because General Lee is on your ignore list.

 

[flyboyike]

Oh come on Ike, stop the sad talk. There were guys in my class way back in the 90s that were 47 years old. You can do it...... Go watch Waterboy the movie for encouragement. "You can do it......!!!" The three legacies will retire 15,000 pilots total in the next ten years too. That always helps. Big retirements haven't really started yet, but they will.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Sad talk would be "woe is me, the airlines are mean to me, my life sucks". I'm just being realistic.

 

[flyboyike]

I wouldn't say so flyboyike! The 6 year difference in age between us could make a big difference.

It could. Or not.

 

[dicko]

My friend went to Cathy and has a four year. He almost washed out of training. His class mate was a Air Force Academy grad. The Air Force dude washed out of training. This was some time ago. I have heard Cathy's training can be difficult.

Who is Cathy and why is she doing these things to your friends ? Is this one of those strange sex games that involve washing and training ?

Please let me know. I have a friend who may be interested.

 

[texman]

Who is Cathy and why is she doing these things to your friends ? Is this one of those strange sex games that involve washing and training ?

Please let me know. I have a friend who may be interested.

Oh dicky you don't even know. She is soooooo hot!

 

[Mr Hat]

Almost 11,000 hours total, 9000 Jet PIC, Captain since 2001, 15 years at a 121 carrier, 737 Type, no accidents incidents, no moving violations on license, no criminal backround....No degree...No interview.
I'm back in school now. I don't agree with it but it is the way it is.

Oh and forgot 25 letters of rec at the airline I want most. Still they hire my FO's.

 

[HowardBorden]

Almost 11,000 hours total, 9000 Jet PIC, Captain since 2001, 15 years at a 121 carrier, 737 Type, no accidents incidents, no moving violations on license, no criminal backround....No degree...No interview.
I'm back in school now. I don't agree with it but it is the way it is.

Oh and forgot 25 letters of rec at the airline I want most. Still they hire my FO's.

An unfortunate shortcoming of the current hiring practices utilizing computers to search for potential applicants to interview. When the search criteria used to shuffle through multiple thousands of applications include "college degree" along with: type rated, TPIC and no violations, your file is simply never pulled for consideration. No one ever gets to see that you are a highly qualified applicant with much to offer the company because the lack of a degree stops your application from coming up for consideration. Congratulations for getting back in school to help your chances. I agree that it is not necessarily fair but it is the current reality as long as their are plenty of qualified applicants with a degree.

 

[glasspilot1]

This is not a policy/practice that came about because of "computers". Requiring a 4 year degree has been a "filter" for decades for major airline hiring. It was just done by a real person in the past.

 

[General Lee]

Sad talk would be "woe is me, the airlines are mean to me, my life sucks". I'm just being realistic.

Ike,

Being realistic is fine, but look at some key facts. 15,000 pilots will hit 65 years old within the next 10 years at the big "3" legacies alone. Then, look at new fatigue rules and new hiring rules (1500 hours or 800 at an accredited Univ program). How much does it cost to fly at one of those accredited Universities by the way? I was told first year at a place like Riddle including housing and flying programs was close to $58K. That's for the first year! How many people can afford that? Good jobs from retirements are coming. An age increase is more unlikely because of the recent heart attack and unfortunate death of the UAL pilot at Boise. Eventually hiring will skyrocket.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[HowardBorden]

This is not a policy/practice that came about because of "computers". Requiring a 4 year degree has been a "filter" for decades for major airline hiring. It was just done by a real person in the past.

I absolutely agree but for an airline like SWA that does not require a degree for employment, you at least had a fighting chance that a human could look at your resume as a whole when making a determination whether not to call you for an interview. With the computer doing the sorting on programmed search criteria, as long as you lack any one of the benchmarks being used to sort applications your application will never even be seen by a human.

 

[flyboyike]

Ike,

Being realistic is fine, but look at some key facts. 15,000 pilots will hit 65 years old within the next 10 years at the big "3" legacies alone. Then, look at new fatigue rules and new hiring rules (1500 hours or 800 at an accredited Univ program). How much does it cost to fly at one of those accredited Universities by the way? I was told first year at a place like Riddle including housing and flying programs was close to $58K. That's for the first year! How many people can afford that? Good jobs from retirements are coming. An age increase is more unlikely because of the recent heart attack and unfortunate death of the UAL pilot at Boise. Eventually hiring will skyrocket.


Bye Bye---General Lee

I don't consider myself nearly smart enough to talk about what might or might not happen "eventually". I can only speak of what I have seen and what I see now.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

I don't consider myself nearly smart enough to talk about what might or might not happen "eventually". I can only speak of what I have seen and what I see now.

This ^^^^^^^might be why......

 

[waveflyer]

I don't get the "it's not fair" comment about the degree-

Let me get this right- well over 90% of us spend tens of thousands of dollar$, worked and studied to improve ourselves and get more educated and well rounded- and you're saying it's not fair that we get a bit of priority in a major airline interview process??

I don't know about you guys but besides it being really fun- college was also a big commitment and a tough sacrifice. Lots of all-nighters getting it done

I said it earlier- it's not the be all end all- but I agree that major airline pilots ought to have at least a 4 year degree-
Wherever you fall on that, it certainly isn't "unfair" to consider a degree and how you graded out

 

[hammer2]

I don't get the "it's not fair" comment about the degree-

Let me get this right- well over 90% of us spend tens of thousands of dollar$, worked and studied to improve ourselves and get more educated and well rounded- and you're saying it's not fair that we get a bit of priority in a major airline interview process??

I don't know about you guys but besides it being really fun- college was also a big commitment and a tough sacrifice. Lots of all-nighters getting it done

I said it earlier- it's not the be all end all- but I agree that major airline pilots ought to have at least a 4 year degree-
Wherever you fall on that, it certainly isn't "unfair" to consider a degree and how you graded out

Well that's contrary to your politics.