HAL hiring

[waveflyer]

Believe me GL, there's plenty of heartburn on our side that this didn't go to arbi too

 

[redflyer65]

How senior are you red?

If rather GK just buy airplanes and hire at the bottom than another overly dramatic SLI.

Oh I get it Wave. I'm fairly junior so I would prefer organic growth. Just like before we bought AirTran. Hell, they could fence all of Hawaiian off for ten years and I'd sign off on that. It would bring in more revenue and fit nicely with the SW system.

I'm just being pragmatic. I'm not sure Hawaiian or Alaska make it as stand alones in 10 years (not saying that couldn't financially). It's just the industry consolidation. Both niche carriers somewhat like Dan stated, but that STILL doesn't mean they won't be bought/merged. Again, not my first choice but you still have to have your eyes wide open.

RF

 

[texarkana]

808pilot, thanks for the reply. however they change the interview process, hopefully it can all be done in one session so guys like me working abroad can give it a shot.

sorry i started such a melee about a merger!

 

[waveflyer]

You didn't txk, I did- just being a troll my man- hope you did find all the answers you needed before I hijacked it

 

[Dan Roman]

Yea your right. I know the 737 MAX numbers are better than the neo. But its like top secret stuff around SWA these days. No clue when or if we will ever do HA.

Actually the max numbers were surprisingly worse than than the NEO. They had a bunch of city pairs listed in the company presentation to the pilot group and what each airplane could carry. There were city pairs that the max had to block quite a few seats when the NEO was able to go full. The Max is not a very good transpac airplane.

 

[Dan Roman]

Jim,

I agree with everything you say, but, if you guys were to merge somehow, would SWAPA allow arbitration? They may agree to it in the beginning, but Herb might come out of retirement and try to scare the heck out of you guys. Sound familiar? I wonder if that could ever happen in real life? Hmmmmm. I hope you guys NEVER have to do that.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Highly unlikely General, but for sure it would go to arbitration. "Gary's" little threat to AirTran about operating as separate airline would be fine with us. He couldn't pit one group against the other as SWA doesn't have any Airbus/ 767/717 pilots to replace us. If they did try to scab us (I'M NOT SAYING SWAPA WOULD DO THAT!) they would 't be very safe in Hawaii anyway.

 

[Dan Roman]

Oh I get it Wave. I'm fairly junior so I would prefer organic growth. Just like before we bought AirTran. Hell, they could fence all of Hawaiian off for ten years and I'd sign off on that. It would bring in more revenue and fit nicely with the SW system.

I'm just being pragmatic. I'm not sure Hawaiian or Alaska make it as stand alones in 10 years (not saying that couldn't financially). It's just the industry consolidation. Both niche carriers somewhat like Dan stated, but that STILL doesn't mean they won't be bought/merged. Again, not my first choice but you still have to have your eyes wide open.

RF

Actually it doesn't fit nicely with the SWA system. HA is a hub in HNL that has a lot of AM west coast departures. They connect with very little of the SWA system. The largest source of our revenue is Intl. None of that fit's into SWA and it's a completely different type of market.

 

[Ainokea]

Nice Jim! LOL

Nope. More like this....

 

[texman]

Actually the max numbers were surprisingly worse than than the NEO. They had a bunch of city pairs listed in the company presentation to the pilot group and what each airplane could carry. There were city pairs that the max had to block quite a few seats when the NEO was able to go full. The Max is not a very good transpac airplane.

I must of read Boeing's report wrong. Oh well I no clue what SWA is going to do in the long run with Hawaii.

 

[texman]

Believe me GL, there's plenty of heartburn on our side that this didn't go to arbi too

Hence the fact the next one will.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Jim,

I agree with everything you say, but, if you guys were to merge somehow, would SWAPA allow arbitration? They may agree to it in the beginning, but Herb might come out of retirement and try to scare the heck out of you guys. Sound familiar? I wonder if that could ever happen in real life? Hmmmmm. I hope you guys NEVER have to do that.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Wave, face it, you guys are scared of arbitration. That's the real issue. You don't want it to be fair. You guys believe every other pilot should start over as an FO, and that isn't how it works in the "real world" of arbitration. Your people scared one group into not doing it, but that won't happen again.



Bye Bye---General Lee

..............................

You know what? Never mind. You're just a pot-stirring ass, General! Well done.

Bubba

 

[nimtz]

Yea your right. I know the 737 MAX numbers are better than the neo. But its like top secret stuff around SWA these days. No clue when or if we will ever do HA.

I wouldn't take the MAX over the NEO performance as a given. Heard they had to jack the entire MAX airframe up in order to fit the new engines. End result will be higher nose, lower tail. Great more tail strikes! Really wish Boeing would kibosh the 737 line.

 

[General Lee]

..............................

You know what? Never mind. You're just a pot-stirring ass, General! Well done.

Bubba

Tell me Bubba that didn't happen.... Hopefully during the next large merger the new management will STAY OUT OF IT and allow the two groups to go to arbitration and get a group of "neutrals" to determine what is fair. I'm sorry Bubba, but AT brought 737s to your party, and not allowing any of their Captains to stay on those planes IN THE LEFT SEAT would NEVER happen in arbitration, and that is why it didn't happen.

I'm just glad that will never happen again, amirite?


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Microclimates]

I wouldn't take the MAX over the NEO performance as a given. Heard they had to jack the entire MAX airframe up in order to fit the new engines. End result will be higher nose, lower tail. Great more tail strikes! Really wish Boeing would kibosh the 737 line.

Right? especially since there is so much more in the Boeing bag... 757 anyone? the coolest looking plane... hang neo engines on that thing, winglets (and maybe fix those god-awful jumpseats in the flight deck) and watch it smoke the competition...

 

[philo beddoe]

Highly unlikely General, but for sure it would go to arbitration. "Gary's" little threat to AirTran about operating as separate airline would be fine with us. He couldn't pit one group against the other as SWA doesn't have any Airbus/ 767/717 pilots to replace us. If they did try to scab us (I'M NOT SAYING SWAPA WOULD DO THAT!) they would 't be very safe in Hawaii anyway.

Nobody messes with da Hui.

 

[Dan Roman]

Nobody messes with da Hui.

:beer:

 

[vetrider]

I'm just an outsider looking in, but I think if I were at Hawaiian I wouldn't want to be merging with anyone. Looks like they've got a good thing going. I'm on my second merger now, and it isn't going to be any more fun than the last one I don't think. At least at my first airline, and my 'second' for that matter, I can see how a merger was needed to give it some staying power, but that doesn't seem to be the case at Hawaiian.

 

[Dan Roman]

I'm just an outsider looking in, but I think if I were at Hawaiian I wouldn't want to be merging with anyone. Looks like they've got a good thing going. I'm on my second merger now, and it isn't going to be any more fun than the last one I don't think. At least at my first airline, and my 'second' for that matter, I can see how a merger was needed to give it some staying power, but that doesn't seem to be the case at Hawaiian.

All very true, you would have a hard time finding anyone at Hawaiian that would want to merge with anyone. Fortunately Hawaiian's business model only works as " Hawaiian Air " Paint another name on the side of the airplane and what has made them successful goes away. Even our International routes don't do much for Delta and, only because it's in this string, would be a joke if SWA thought it would fit into what they do. Don't get all wound up Wave, it's not a slam! It's just two completely different business models that don't fit or complement each other.

 

[waveflyer]

HAWAIIAN AIRLINES operated by Southwest

 

[Dan Roman]

HAWAIIAN AIRLINES operated by Southwest

Wave, we are going to double our seniority list when the NEO's arrive and we get a half dozen either A350's or 787's ( they actually are talking to Boeing ) starting in 2016. Apply dude, you could be a Hawaiian Air pilot that way!

 

[waveflyer]

Hahaha
I'm good my man

I'll stop trolling and say I'm sure you'd be great to fly with brother

 

[Microclimates]

Hey Dan
Not to be too pessimistic but unless we solve this Ohana thing, and reabsorb the turboprop flying, I am not at all sure that it is going to go down that way... The Debbie Downer in me sees, as the 717s reach a venerable old age, that inter-island flying will be done by a combination of NEO, during peak hours, and Ohana on off-peak schedules... Methinks that there is a real risk that the NEO will be, at best, replacement, and not growth.... Any fee-for-departure company, like empire, will always make the case (on paper) that they are the cheaper option, whether that is actually true or not.

I can't see any other reason why we would have started an entire operation to serve just 2 destinations. it makes no business sense... start taking the long pessimistic view tho and things change...

We need to get a turboprop payscale and take control of that flying.

 

[Junkflyer]

Too late to take control of Ohana. That was given up in the current contract and management will never give it up.

 

[waveflyer]

Too late to take control of Ohana. That was given up in the current contract and management will never give it up.

Wtf is this^^^??

I actually wish swa would start up a Q400 op for the markets we miss out on as well.

 

[Jim]

We have pretty tight scope clauses for interisland flying by Ohana and code shares. I don't see non-seniority list pilots flying the four big interisland city pairs (HNL-LIH, HNL-OFF, HNL-KOA, HNL-ITO) unless we give it up and that's not going to happen.

Ohana was started for a variety of reasons to include unreliable code share partners to those destinations affecting our customer satisfaction especially the Japanese tourist bureaus, increasing our market share, keeping the lid on the growth of the other interisland carriers (then Go! and Island Air, not just Island Air) and filling the holes in our schedules.

Hawaiian owns the Ohana planes and does all the leg work, Empire just provides pilots and FAs so I wouldn't call it an entire operation. There are eventually supposed to be 4 Ohana planes flying other city pairs that either can't be flown by the 717 because of runways or that would not fill a 717 even with minimal frequency. Further during the last contract negotiations Dunkerley said that if it grows much beyond that it would be time to start folding them completely into our operation (yeah I know, negotiation promises not in writing...but in this case probably true).

We also have contractual minimum interisland 717 flying or Ohana has to go away. I also believe that the 321s were specifically designated as not part of this interisland minimums in the LOA.

So while I wish it were Hawaiian pilots flying the planes I'm not really worried about Ohana taking any jobs away from us and I'm pretty confident the vast majority of 321 flying will be growth.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Wtf is this^^^??

I actually wish swa would start up a Q400 op for the markets we miss out on as well.

Flown by SWA pilots I sincerely hope. The lesson of the 1990s should not be lost on SWA. As the mainline carriers parked DC9s, F100s, F28s, BAe146, 737-200... an armada of RJs flown by the lowest priced contractors darkened the sky. Once the toothpaste is out of the tube it is exceedingly difficult to put back in. I don't care what they choose to fly, so long as they choose to do so with our pilots at the controls. Scope = jobs and there is no job... no airplane... that we should be too good to fly.

Sorry to intrude upon this HAL thread, but I felt the need to comment. I hope you understand.

 

[Dan Roman]

Hey Dan
Not to be too pessimistic but unless we solve this Ohana thing, and reabsorb the turboprop flying, I am not at all sure that it is going to go down that way... The Debbie Downer in me sees, as the 717s reach a venerable old age, that inter-island flying will be done by a combination of NEO, during peak hours, and Ohana on off-peak schedules... Methinks that there is a real risk that the NEO will be, at best, replacement, and not growth.... Any fee-for-departure company, like empire, will always make the case (on paper) that they are the cheaper option, whether that is actually true or not.

I can't see any other reason why we would have started an entire operation to serve just 2 destinations. it makes no business sense... start taking the long pessimistic view tho and things change...

We need to get a turboprop payscale and take control of that flying.

Exactly what Jim said. There is no scenario that could see Ohana replace any of our inter island flying now. Our scope covers it. Inter Island needs the seats Jets provide and it has to be high frequency The NEO's are not a cost effective inter island jet. We are paying for an airplane that can fly transpac and creates a lot of potential for new markets, Orange County, outer island to the west coast, etc. iIt wouldn't make sense to use it as an 717 replacement.

 

[Dan Roman]

Also Micro, from a business sense, it means Hawaiian touch's all the inter island flying ( interesting Island Air pulled out of MKK as soon as we went back there).
As far as trying to do that flying on our seniority list, it really wouldn't be realistic to freeze people on it while new hires went to the jets.
Again, I think our current scope covers us correctly in that it's good to have that flying done for us by Ohana but I really don't see it as any threat at all.

 

[Junkflyer]

Ohana will be doing OGG to the Big Island routes (they've already done some proving runs to ITO)and possibly to LIH in the future. That flying is currently done by the 717 and nothing in the contract precludes Ohana from doing it.

 

[...Lost]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ohana-hawaiian-expands-network-maui-232700490.html