Gulfstream getting CoEx Routes?

[Britpilot]

My job was worth it and I have no problem looking myself in the mirror, no regrets and the view from the left seat of this E-145 is wonderful. I would rather do this than anything else, that was my motivation. If you don't like or can't deal with this sorry, enjoy your desk job and your peace of mind.

 

[jppt2000]

Pilots who've worked hard to build a career will resent those who try to pull an end-run around them via their checkbook.

Saddly, there are too many well qualified individuals chasing too few well paying jobs.
Good luck, work hard, good for you. Some people choose to take their chances and invest their money in a chance to get a $10 dollar per hour job for 250 hours. Nothing is guaranteed at Gulfstream. You gotta perform well or you don't get on. Gulfstream doesn't "give" you anything. Period.
Getting a job in aviation is mainly being in the right place at the right time with the right qualifications.
How people choose to get those qualifications can vary widely from the military, GA flight instructing, flying bank checks or even GIA.
You Gulfstream flamers are ignorant and very much misinformed.
They have an excellent training program. Continental mainline ownes a huge piece of them.


How about 2000 hours instruction given over four years,or flying boxes in an Aztec, enough dues paid?
Sure, but when you are hiring for 1900 positions, or other commuter positions, who are you gonna hire first?
No disrespect intended, I'm not cutting down your experience or abilities, I'm looking at your credentials from an HR standpoint. Gees those HR people many times don't have PPL's. Quite often they rely on the old adage The only way to forecast future performance is to look at past performance.
You gotta get by the HR person.


Ignorance is bliss!!! You PFT guys need to realize that every seat you pay for as a training FO is one less paying job for pilots!!!!!!

Actually I disagree. There are far more instructing jobs open for people who want to build their time instructing.

That's inaccurate. I am no lover of CAA, but it is not P-F-T. The Commercial-Multi-Instrument-CFI you earn there can be shopped anywhere. For once, let's get the definition of P-F-T right. P-F-T is when you pay for training as a condition of employment at a particular company, that training is specific to that company and applies only to that company.

Yes, Comair is not PFT now but it was for over 3 years. It stopped three and a half years ago. As well as ASA.
With Delta taking huge losses, you might just see it start back up again.
PS ASA folks are saying furloughed Mainline guys are getting hired into RJ.

 

[bobbysamd]

P-F-T v. peace of mind

My job was worth it and I have no problem looking myself in the mirror, no regrets and the view from the left seat of this E-145 is wonderful. I would rather do this than anything else, that was my motivation. If you don't like or can't deal with this sorry, enjoy your desk job and your peace of mind.

I do enjoy my peace of mind, very much, thank you. Best of luck to you.

 

[youngin']

Tell me something, why is it when I blast CHQ for being whores to the industry and taking COEX routes I get flamed, but when a Gulfstream guy does it everyone flames him? ITS THE SAME THING. And thats why we are pissed off. It doesn't matter if DAL or United took our (yes our) routes. Its still the same. That flying is OUR flying. We were owned by CAL, we were promised a flough through to CAL, and we are the ones Screwed by Gordon(lorenzo) Baboon! Now they want some lower bidding NON ALPA carrier with no spine to do our old routes while we park airplanes(and still pay the leases) AND have 383 pilots on furlough and hundreds more displaced as captains to F/o's. (Hello alter ego airline) 3m1900fo, id sugest you pay your dues and get hired by a real airline because as soon as you show up in IAH CLE OR EWR your life will not be pleasant. Do not pander to the lowest common denominator.

Welcome to the game called life. I'm surprised that you were never taught as a child that life isn't always fair, and sometimes you are forced into situations which aren't exactly desireable, but it's all part of the game my friend. CHECK THIS ONE OUT: The Rolling Stone's song 'You can't always get what you want'

 

[bobbysamd]

Unfairness

Welcome to the game called life. I'm surprised that you were never taught as a child that life isn't always fair, and sometimes you are forced into situations which aren't exactly desireable, but it's all part of the game my friend. CHECK THIS ONE OUT: The Rolling Stone's song 'You can't always get what you want'

While we're on the subject of British rock groups:

Buy you a diamond ring, my friend, if it makes you feel all right . . . I'll give you all I've got to give, if it makes you feel all right. . . . I don't care too much for money, for money can't buy me love.

--The Beatles, circa 1965

. . . though money can buy you an FO seat.

No, life is not always fair. But, I don't see anyone holding a gun to one's head to P-F-T, either.

Once more, to thine ownself be true.

 

[mckpickle]

Steve, sorry for any and all offense,if there is any thing I can do to make this up? Like maybe a cuban now and again?
It's everybodys noble right to be a moron but some people abuse the privilage.

NOW WE'RE TALKING! Man you crack me up!

 

[mckpickle]

Re: Unfairness

While we're on the subject of British rock groups:

Buy you a diamond ring, my friend, if it makes you feel all right . . . I'll give you all I've got to give, if it makes you feel all right. . . . I don't care too much for money, for money can't buy me love.

--The Beatles, circa 1965

. . . though money can buy you an FO seat.

No, life is not always fair. But, I don't see anyone holding a gun to one's head to P-F-T, either.

Once more, to thine ownself be true.

Nigel you wanna field this one????

 

[AWACoff]

4 to 5 years ago....

Hmm... Great Lakes and Air Wisconsin did not have PFT.

Mr. Pickle, your facts appear to be in error. I am sure there are many other companies that were not PFT either. Maybe we should make a list.

 

[Ty Webb]

"Nigel" and the rest of the Gulfstream apologists- you guys are missing the point entirely.

What Gulfstream does is take a required crewmember seat that would be an entry level job for someone, and intead, they rent it out to someone who would rather pay dollars than build experience. Often times, this person is not even a US citizen, but someone who is here on a student visa, believe it or not!

And all this to save HOW much per hour? We're not talking about replacing a triple 7 skipper here, we're talking about saving $20-30 bucks an hour. Now, that's ridiculous.

If COEX wants to use non-union crews that are paying for the "privilege" of being there, while they have their own pilots are out on furlough, well, I think 60 Minutes would be interested to know that a Continental passenger buying a ticket on a US major airline will be completing their flight in an aircraft that has a foreign pilot on a student visa renting the seat by the hour. Now, that's a pretty picture.

 

[Ty Webb]

"Nigel" and the rest of the Gulfstream apologists- you guys are missing the point entirely.

What Gulfstream does is take a required crewmember seat that would be an entry level job for someone, and intead, they rent it out to someone who is looking to pay money to get out of building PIC experience. Often times, this person is not even a US citizen, but someone who is here on a student visa, believe it or not! Now, that would look good on 60 Minutes . . . . . . a Continental passenger buying a ticket on a US major airline will be completing their flight in an aircraft that has a foreign pilot on a student visa renting the seat by the hour. Now, that's a pretty picture.

We're not talking about replacing a triple 7 skipper, either; we're talking about shaving $20-30 bucks an hour per crew- or about 2 bucks per ticket? Now, that's ridiculous.

I think your Union should let Gordon know that they have stood by him during very difficult times, but they will not tolerate this move- no way, no how, or those RJ's will be flying so slow that they'll have to equip them with rear-view mirrors to avoid bird strikes.. . from behind!

 

[Britpilot]

Re: Re: Unfairness

Nigel you wanna field this one????

Certainly , my good man. What we have here is a bitter non airline pilot individual, who hates the fact that you and I paid for our training in order to secure an airline job. The real truth here is that this, non airline pilot individual, adopts a "holier than thou" stance to justify the simple fact that he was not hungry enough for the job that he "dreamed" of. You and I are the enemies of the greater global good and must be punished for our crimes against the pilot humanity.
"To thine ownself be true" is a dig at our virtue and conscience at which I take offense. My conscience is clear and I hope that this individual enjoys his job at that most noble of professions, the legal profession, or is that an oximoron.
To those that slam Gulfstream, this is a business enterprise and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. This country was built on the promise of free enterprise Go ahead and call 60 Minutes if you wish, I hope it makes you feel better. Me? I would be happy to fly with them, after all they all passed their FAA check ride did'nt they? Is that not the standard of all pilots in this country?

 

[350DRIVER]

Certainly , my good man. What we have here is a bitter non airline pilot individual, who hates the fact that you and I paid for our training in order to secure an airline job

Your posts keep getting funnier and funnier just when I thought that would be impossible. ! ! - YOU B O U G H T a job without "earning" it and I would NOT be too proud of that fact if I were you. ! ! I have known very FEW people who did this and the ones that I did know HAD to do this for one main reason > They ALL LACKED the "skills" and "knowledge" to go out and "EARN" the position and PROVE their skills. (When you BUY a job as with Gulfstream YOU are "coached" and taken by the hand since in all due respect that is what you paid for. !


Too FUNNY ! !

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[Britpilot]

Your posts keep getting funnier and funnier just when I thought that would be impossible. ! ! - YOU B O U G H T a job without "earning" it and I would NOT be too proud of that fact if I were you. ! ! I have known very FEW people who did this and the ones that I did know HAD to do this for one main reason > They ALL LACKED the "skills" and "knowledge" to go out and "EARN" the position and PROVE their skills. (When you BUY a job as with Gulfstream YOU are "coached" and taken by the hand since in all due respect that is what you paid for. !


Too FUNNY ! !

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What constitutes "earning" a job in your book?
Let me see here, I am a check airman with a part 121 airline, I fly a fifty seat turbo jet aircraft, before that I flew a nineteen seat aircraft in the midwest with out an autopilot, I have PC's every six months, have two type ratings, fly out the New York area airspace EVERY time I fly, yet according to you I lack the skill and experiance that is necessary to be a real pilot.
No, It is you that just gets funnier, I think that myself and my fellow professionals at my airline have the required skill, knowledge and experiance and we were NEVER lead by the hand for anything we achieved.
I think that I have said this before, I wanted to fly for an airline and at the time the ONLY way to get in was to pay for the training. Many of those that did the same as me are now flying at the major airlines are they also incompetent? In your eyes maybe, don't judge our credentials by the fact that we paid for our training. You are not me and I am proud of what I am and so is my family, sorry this offends you so much. Hope you enjoy your 135 gig, maybe I will see you for IOE one day.

 

[350DRIVER]

Brit-
I am going to sign off this thread due to many facts which I believe truly speak for themselves and I don't want to take anything away from that. I am glad that you are happy with the career path that you decided to take, better you than I. ! !

What constitutes "earning" a job in your book?

I would let the obvious stick out and for those who know this program I don't think anything else needs to be said. Sometimes "silence" can speak novels.......

Good luck

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ps> How many pilots who "paid" for the F.O. program have ever washed out of the Gulf program prior to being 121 qualified.??!!- I think these numbers are the best evidence that backed up my previous post. !

 

[Britpilot]

Brit-
I am glad that you are happy with the career path that you decided to take, better you than I. ! !

Yet another self righteous dig at myself. As a matter of fact I did'nt go the Gulfstream route but that makes no differance. If some one choses this route that's fine. it does'nt mean, as you love to suggest, that they lack skill or dignity. It would seem that you need to grow up a little bit and not point the finger at those that drive down a different road to achieve their dream. More power to them, I think I would prefer to fly with them than you, as a matter of fact I have flown with some of them, good pilots all and good attitudes. Why not buy yourself a reality check?

]

 

[bobbysamd]

P-F-T

I think that I have said this before, I wanted to fly for an airline and at the time the ONLY way to get in was to pay for the training.

Res ipsa loquitor, which means, "the thing speaks for itself."

Call me anything you want, my friend. For that matter, look at my resume, compare it to the commuter mins of the day, and compare both to the hirees of the day. You will call me "qualified" - except that they were 22 or 23 and I was 40. Now, what do you call that? (Let me give you a hint - ADEA).

Define "hungry." Cutting in line in front of others via money, and "hungry," are mutually exclusive.

Once more, to quote the Beatles, circa 1963, " . . . . The best things in life are free . . . . " (correction on the lyrics)

PS-Good for you regarding your achievements. If you're looking for envy, though, you won't find it here.

 

[350DRIVER]

Bobbysamd- You have said it best..

AMEN

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[Britpilot]

Re: P-F-T

Res ipsa loquitor, which means, "the thing speaks for itself."

Call me anything you want, my friend. For that matter, look at my resume, compare it to the commuter mins of the day, and compare both to the hirees of the day. You will call me "qualified" - except that they were 22 or 23 and I was 40. Now, what do you call that? (Let me give you a hint - ADEA).

Define "hungry." Cutting in line in front of others via money, and "hungry," are mutually exclusive.

Once more, to quote the Beatles, circa 1963, more or less, " . . . . They say the best things in life are free . . . . "

PS-Good for you regarding your achievements. If you're looking for envy, though, you won't find it here.

No, not looking for envy, I really couldn't care what you or any one else thinks.
Where did I "cut in line"? At the time if you wanted a job you paid, very simple, that's the way it was and that's the way it may be again if and when the regional airlines resume hiring, so be prepared.
Very familar with the Beatles as they originated from my country of birth. However, there is no such thing as a free lunch anywhere in this world.
You and your suporters continue to critisize those of us that paid for our training when not one of us has said they agree with the concept. It was required at the time in order to secure the job,that is all.
I have heard your tale of woe several times and admire your principles of not paying for training but at the end of the day I am flying for an airline and you are not. Sometimes you have to swallow your pride.
I began flight training to go to an airline, I paid for all my flight training from private pilot to CFI myself, I had to have these ratings in order to get a job so I don't see anything wrong with paying for my initial airline training.
As for you Mr 350, don't critisize those who paid just because you won't, you were not around for the hiring in the late '90s or maybe you would have been faced with the same choices as we were, who knows you maybe faced with those choices in the future if you wish to fly for an airline.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Nigel,

I really don't care to get involved in this debate, as I have my hands full with other subjects. I only plan on jumping in to correct something that you have repeated many times.

You have said that you had to PFT because that was the "only way to get a job back then." Please allow me to correct your misconception. You mentioned that you were hired about four years ago. Back then there were literally dozens of regional airlines who did not require PFT. I know because I sent hundreds of resumes, but only to airlines that did not make me write a check. Granted, this was a few years before your hire date, but the number of PFT airlines actually decreased from when I was hired by my first regional to when you were.

Feel free to defend your choices, but do so using facts rather than inaccuracies. The fact is that when you were hired, there were many many regional airlines who did not require PFT. Writing a check was not the only way to get hired, and to state otherwise could lead one to believe that you are not as secure in your choice as you would have us believe.

 

[willi7]

Brit pilot, do you mean the early 90's???? I hope so because if one had to buy time in the late 90's, when people were getting on with less than a thousand hours, somethings is definatly wrong!!