Gulfstream getting CoEx Routes?

[El Duderino]

Britty
You are here, a natural citizen of Brittain, PFT, and flying for a company that has people renting out a paid pilot seat. You are the epitamy of so many problems with this country. I can't belive you, spewing off ignorance, and trying to rationalize a problem that is horific. The fact that you paid for training is one thing, but you are flying for a company that was started by an Eastern Scab, that has pilots in the experience level of around 250 hours PAYING for a pilot seat that should be given to a qualified pilot and getting paid for the job done, on top of the fact that many of them are here on Student Visas, and you are not even from here(flame if you must). And now your company is taking over routes that my Coex friends and others still on furlough used to fly. I would never be proud to be in your position, I wouldn't be able to look other pilots in the eye in the concourse. I guess when in Texas I'll have to do the same thing me and everyone I know who flies the bahamas does when they see you p*ssy's in Marsh, ignore you like you are the guano you are. Like at the Banyan Pilot Mart when you hard on's come strolling in wearing monkey suits. Go ahead and keep being proud of yourself, its hilarious. Its just unfortunate that you guys are taking over routes of decent people.
BTW nice knock on the 135 flying, and nice coment about how you don't care about what anyone on this board or anyone for that matter cares. It shows dork. If you don't care than why have you made 9 posts about it. All the while your other lackies that were speaking up have retreated to the holes y'all are supposed to be in.
You've obviously picked your face off.
duder

 

[Britpilot]

Britty
You are here, a natural citizen of Brittain, PFT, and flying for a company that has people renting out a paid pilot seat. You are the epitamy of so many problems with this country. I can't belive you, spewing off ignorance, and trying to rationalize a problem that is horific. The fact that you paid for training is one thing, but you are flying for a company that was started by an Eastern Scab, that has pilots in the experience level of around 250 hours PAYING for a pilot seat that should be given to a qualified pilot and getting paid for the job done, on top of the fact that many of them are here on Student Visas, and you are not even from here(flame if you must). And now your company is taking over routes that my Coex friends and others still on furlough used to fly. I would never be proud to be in your position, I wouldn't be able to look other pilots in the eye in the concourse. I guess when in Texas I'll have to do the same thing me and everyone I know who flies the bahamas does when they see you p*ssy's in Marsh, ignore you like you are the guano you are. Like at the Banyan Pilot Mart when you hard on's come strolling in wearing monkey suits. Go ahead and keep being proud of yourself, its hilarious. Its just unfortunate that you guys are taking over routes of decent people.
BTW nice knock on the 135 flying, and nice coment about how you don't care about what anyone on this board or anyone for that matter cares. It shows dork. If you don't care than why have you made 9 posts about it. All the while your other lackies that were speaking up have retreated to the holes y'all are supposed to be in.
You've obviously picked your face off.
duder

I think you need to get your facts correct before you launch into a personal attack on me.
I am from Britain not Brittain.
I am a citizen of the USA, and I resent your racial slur.
I do not and have never flown for Gulfstream. If you look at my profile you will see that I fly the EMB-145 just like your "friends" at COEX, which by the way, is actually called Express Jet and it is they who write my paycheck.
I did not "knock" 135 flying as I used to do this myself.
Be very careful who you accuse of being a scab, I am an ALPA member in good standing, union committee member and resent the accusation.
Your post displays ignorance, lack of research and worse still you are a racist. I hope that you never make it to an airline.

 

[Britpilot]

Brit pilot, do you mean the early 90's???? I hope so because if one had to buy time in the late 90's, when people were getting on with less than a thousand hours, somethings is definatly wrong!!

No I mean the late '90s. I was hired in '98. I would not have had to pay for training if I had 100 more multi. They discontinued the policy two months after I was hired as did most other companies. It was about this time that the real "boom" of low time hiring began. Ther is nothing "wrong" with me I promise.

 

[Britpilot]

Nigel,

I really don't care to get involved in this debate, as I have my hands full with other subjects. I only plan on jumping in to correct something that you have repeated many times.

You have said that you had to PFT because that was the "only way to get a job back then." Please allow me to correct your misconception. You mentioned that you were hired about four years ago. Back then there were literally dozens of regional airlines who did not require PFT. I know because I sent hundreds of resumes, but only to airlines that did not make me write a check. Granted, this was a few years before your hire date, but the number of PFT airlines actually decreased from when I was hired by my first regional to when you were.

Feel free to defend your choices, but do so using facts rather than inaccuracies. The fact is that when you were hired, there were many many regional airlines who did not require PFT. Writing a check was not the only way to get hired, and to state otherwise could lead one to believe that you are not as secure in your choice as you would have us believe.

I am not defending my choices, like I said I don't care what any one thinks about me or any one else who paid for our training.
The facts and not inaccuracies are, that I also sent resumes to all regional airlines and I am aware that not all required pay for training. Thank you for pointing that out. The better airlines did require that I paid and that is where I decided to go, personal choice with an eye to the future. The marjority of those that did not require payment required higher time than I had at that time and it would have taken me longer to achieve those extra multi hours. I felt that with 2500 hours already I was ready for the move.
Still very secure in my choice to pay for my training, why wouldn't I be? Although it appears that a lot of you are not and are fast to jump down my throat about it. I even got called a scab by one poster who does not even fly for an airline. It appears that there are a lot of "experts" out there that are very quick to show their ignorance on airline subjects.
Like I said, there may be a situation in the future with airlines watching their budgets very carefully that potential new hires will be faced with the option of paying for training or not getting that job. That is the reality like it or not. Hope you get recalled soon.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Nigel,

I didn't "jump down your throat" at all. In fact, I was careful to keep my opinion out of my post.

All I wanted to point out was that you saying that the "only" way to get hired in the late 90's was by paying was incorrect. You yourself even admitted that you would not have had to pay had you gotten more multi time. That fact alone refuted your original claim.

Thank you for your good wishes. I too hope that everyone is back where they belong very soon.

 

[Britpilot]

Point taken, however you will agree that seniority is one of the most valuable things that an airline pilot needs. It would have taken me nearly a year or more to obtain that extra 100 hours and I wanted an airline job with a stable company. I was watching pilots get hired with less time than myself and therefore the choice was simple, pay or don't get hired for an undetermined amount of time.
If so many people were against the pay for training situation, how did the company fill sixty slots every two weeks? I suggest that the majority of us are prepared to pay for the chance of an airline position, not that this makes it right, just that a lot of us are prepared to make the financial sacrifice.
I did not know at the time that the requirement to pay for training would go away, impossible to predict and I add that I still had to go through the usual interview process. A job was not guaranteed just because you had the money, anyone who went through a COEX interview at the time will atest to this.
In short, my choices at the time were limited and as my seniority is all that has prevented me from a situation that befalls you, I say that the choice was a good one.
If any one does not agree with the pay for training concept then they should not do it but as I mentioned this may come back in the future. Remember there are a lot of qualified high time pilots that will competing for the few jobs that will be available at a time of budget restrained airline operations.
You pay your money and take your choice (or not if that is the case)

 

[bobbysamd]

1998 v. 1992

No I mean the late '90s. I was hired in '98. I would not have had to pay for training if I had 100 more multi. They discontinued the policy two months after I was hired as did most other companies. It was about this time that the real "boom" of low time hiring began. Ther is nothing "wrong" with me I promise.

(emphasis added)

So, my friend, and I consider you to be my friend because you are also a pilot, it is apparent that you cut in line after all.

Lesseee .... 1998, when you were hired ...... and the early '90s, when I was trying. A little difference in time frame, I think ........ In 1998, everyone and his brother had a reasonable shot at landing a commuter interview. Circa 1990, with the Gulf War, recession, and Eastern and Pan Am et al furloughs, there was more than the usual glut of talent available for the few jobs to be had. It's an apples-and-oranges comparison.

Your admission that it was 1998 and not 1992 when you were hired changes this discussion quite a bit, don't you think? You were saying that back in 1992 the only way to get hired was to pay for training. To me, that seemed to be the only way, and I refused because I did not care to grovel, but, categorically, it was not true at all. May I name a few commuter airlines back then that were not P-F-T that are still around today? SkyWest? Horizon? Continental Express? Eagle? My G-d, even that lean, mean, money-making machine Mesa was not P-F-T (I realize it had its FO program(s) and its pay-for-interview ATP "program," but Mesa still hired plenty off the street). Comair (not the academy) had its P-F-T program, but it hired off the street as well. I know; I interviewed there.

You attack my story as a tale of woe. Perhaps it is. You call me bitter. Perhaps, from your perspective, I am. Attack away. But, as long as we're having a discussion, or, at least trying to have a discussion, let's not distort the facts.

Once again, I wish you nothing but the best. Your apparent dislike of the legal profession and what I do now notwithstanding, please contact me if you ever need that kind of help and I'll be delighted to help you any way I can.

 

[Britpilot]

Re: 1998 v. 1992

(emphasis added)

So, my friend, and I consider you to be my friend because you are also a pilot, it is apparent that you cut in line after all.

Cut in line in front of who? Here's how it happened. Sent out a resume to Continental Express, got called to interview, completed interview, was hired on basis of qualifications and experiance (not on the ability to pay), third week of training paid my check. Every one had the same chance. I was sending out resumes to regional airlines from the begining of 95 and have been cetificated since 90. I did not cut in line in front of any one.
And no. I am not a fan of the legal professional and not a lot of people are evident from the recent proposals to limit frivilous law suits. I relize that we need lawyers for certain things but we do not need so many who are nothing but parasites and manage only to fatten their wallets.

 

[ex208driver]

Nigel, you dont have to defend yourself. their was a time when everyone paid at coex, it didn't matter what the time requirement was. times have changed now and with us having almost 400 people on the street times have changed. when we get everyone back and begin hiring again you just watch what the time requirements will be by then. check your pm.

 

[AWACoff]

Not to post the obvious...BUT...if the guy didn't want to PFT, he could have simply bought block time in a twin and acquired another 100hrs for much less than PFTing. You could have flown that in 2 weeks. Whoops. I got hired in '99 with barely a commercial ticket. I had persistence and tenacity. If I hadn't gotten the job, my CFI ticket I was working on would have gotten me a job. Seniority isn't everything. It's very important but it's not more important than selling your reputation for a job.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

I got hired in '99 with barely a commercial ticket. I had persistence and tenacity. If I hadn't gotten the job, my CFI ticket I was working on would have gotten me a job.

INCOMING!!!!!!!!!

 

[mckpickle]

OK THATS ENOUGH! You guys need to relax. PFT was a BIG part of hiring in the late 90's. Most people who didnt go that route were morally against it. Thats fine however most of the larger carriers WERE requiring this.

When I was hired in early 97 Everyone from Coex to Commutair, to ACA to COMAIR was charging. Its just the way it was. (thank you Lorenzo). If you bash someone for paying for the training than you need to bash the majority of guys who were hired from 95-99. You wont win that battle.

As far as Gulfstream. I do not agree with taking advantage of pilots. I REALLY dont believe in Gulfstream because Of the fact that the owner was one of the FIRST SCABS to cross the line at eastern. I believe he became a chief pilot the same day. So I question any thing done by that airline or that person.

Now El Duderino your just an idiot and your lack of reading proves it. I am not British so am not nearly as refined as my friend, I dont consider that a personal attack, just an observation.

The Bottom line is that Durring that time period most companies were requiring payment. I believe Eagle was the exception, however, Eagle also had 7-10 year F/O's. Everyone laughed at me for going to coex when they were going to commutair. They made great money(but still paid for training), and had upgrades in 1 1/2 years. Things change and now I guess im better off.

I saw the fact that coex ordered 300 jets as a sign that they might hire one or two pilots! I did not CUT IN line because I did what everyone at my company was doing. I made a choice and now im in the top 25% of 2000 pilots. I do not feel guilty and neither should Nigel. (except for bringing that funny accent).

NO this was not the only way to get a job, But hindsight being 20/20 we made out a HELL of a lot better than we would have. No I need to go write a check, 750$ and my PFT is done!!!

 

[mckpickle]

Not to post the obvious...BUT...if the guy didn't want to PFT, he could have simply bought block time in a twin and acquired another 100hrs for much less than PFTing. You could have flown that in 2 weeks. Whoops. I got hired in '99 with barely a commercial ticket. I had persistence and tenacity. If I hadn't gotten the job, my CFI ticket I was working on would have gotten me a job. Seniority isn't everything. It's very important but it's not more important than selling your reputation for a job.

Do you even work for an airline??? Have you ever drinken beers with pilots???

Every pilot I know would sell their mother in law for 3 extra numbers. Immediate family goes for 10 numbers a pop. Seniority is EVERYTHING. Had I waited one month when I ws hired I would have gotten the EMB120 instead of the ATR. I would have been CLE based instead of BTV then MHT.(where I lived) For the last 2 years I've bid in the top 10 on my airplane. Another month and I would have gone to the RJ sooner and been sitting reserve for a year or 2 and be sitting in ewr at 110 now.

Seniority is everything.

"Those humble in seniority, like Miller, were assigned to fly the two-engined C-47's on flights to Goose Bay and the Crystals unless one of the larger planes became available to fly the ocean. Thus once again, the numbers took over the regulation of our private destinies and once more the numbers composed themselves in a way which at times made some of us feel like a ball spinning in a roulette wheel"
E.K. GANN; Fate Is The Hunter.

I recomend it highly

 

[nimtz]

El Duderino:

Hey nice aim dude! You accuse Nigel of working for Gulfstream and stealing flying from Expressjet. Not only does is he a captain for Expressjet, but he is on the hotel committee that has helped to make our overnights light years better from the time I was hired. Your furloughed Exjet friends are getting continued health benefits, because good union members like Nigel giving up parts of their paycheck. Come back and try to flame him when you done anything to better a pilot group. Otherwise stay in the bush league junior!
As for the whole PFT debate, get over it guys. Everytime I see PFT or Gulfstream in a message it turns into a 200 thread arguement that goes no where. People who pft'd are not even close to scabs (ask the comair guys who pft'd if they think that), so don't throw that word out. Just to follow the script I'll ask ISN'T SOUTHWEST PFT TOO???

 

[Dignan]

Everyone knows that old joke about how only two things will remain after a nuclear holocaust--cockroaches and Great Lakes Aviation. Well, now we can add one more--this #&%$! thread!

D

 

[bobbysamd]

Agreed. Enough is enough. I don't like P-F-T. I will never like P-F-T. Brit has the right not to like lawyers. There are quite a few lawyers that I don't like - and I work for attorneys. If someone wants to P-F-T, let them P-F-T. I would just urge careful thought and research.

While we're at it, I don't feel that Southwest is P-F-T.

 

[Britpilot]

[.

While we're at it, I don't feel that Southwest is P-F-T. [/B]

What is it then?

 

[mckpickle]

ok So i couldnt resist.

Why does California have all the lawyers and New Jersey have all the toxic waste dumps..............(drum roll please)








Jersey got first choice (rim-shot)

 

[350DRIVER]

While we're at it, I don't feel that Southwest is P-F-T.

In reality SWA is PFT in a way.... IF "hired" YOU are required to obtain a 737 type rating and last I checked YOU had to PAY the place for the TRAINING - I don't think this is nearly as bad as Gulf however I have absolutely no intentions of ever flying for SWA unless they wave this requirement. It is my belief that when a pilot is at that level then it is a slap in the face to have to dish out that much money after the long road that you had to travel to get to that point. I 100% understand the SWA reasoning behind this BUT I just don't agree with it. So yes in a way SWA is PFT

Comparing SWA and Gulf though would be like comparing a Mercedes to a Yugo. The two operators are worlds apart and Gulf Joke is nothing more than an absolute disgrace to the industry.


3 5 0

 

[jppt2000]

The two operators are worlds apart and Gulf Joke is nothing more than an absolute disgrace to the industry.


Give it up 350, you borderline slander everyone who worked at Gulfstream. You have no facts about what you say. Your tone leads me to believe their is much more behind your GIA flaming than meets the eye.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but 350, Gulfstream, I think has a pretty long waiting list for their FO course.
PS think before you start flaming GIA to someone you are flying with. There are lots of Gulfstream grads out there, especially lots who were furloughed.