Gulfstream getting CoEx Routes?

[414Flyer]

It seemed pretty obvious that it was someone trolling.

 

[bobbysamd]

Pride v. selling your soul

. . .. How can one honestly take pride in himself after accomplishing nothing except wasting daddy's money . . . .

Another good comment. That's been one of my prime issues about P-F-T. With enough money, anyone can buy an interview and/or a job. Not anyone can get an interview or get hired. To do even one is a major accompishment.

I guess it boils down to being able to look at oneself in the mirror every morning. That was worth more to me than the "job."

 

[Airline Pilot27]

The Gulfstream Approach Con't

GF: I see the runaway over there

GC: Thats a taxiway you idiot

GF: Oh

GF: Ok now I see it but...
(long pause)

GF: Why is it moving to the left?

GC: You have to put in some crab

GF: Can't afford crab anymore

GC: Correct for Xwind

GF: AAAHHHHH

GC: my airplane

 

[350DRIVER]

If only the paying pax in the back knew "what" was occupying the right seat- l o l

I think "what" is the best deFn for this- I am not sure how else I could refer to that "paying" occupant.

3 5 0

ps> where is the dunce hat picture ?!

 

[Corbon]

I cant wait for the next time the teamsters (read HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA) or your own managment (shaking my head) screw you over. Then we'll hear the violins. A$$HOLE.

Spoken like a true professional.

 

[jppt2000]

350 Driver, Airline pilot27, Fly Chicago,

You folks are so ignorant, and arrogant.
You have absolutely no idea about the training at 3M.
You are not guaranteed a job, you folks are picking on people who paid their own money to get multi turbine time.
Then you hide behind screen names.
There are 3M pilots at every major airline and fractional.
One clown threatens that he can't wait to give a 3M pilot a hard time if he is on an interview board.
These people made the decision to go a different route than you folks. They definately pay their dues just like everyone else.
3M's safety record speaks for itself.
All you have is anecdotal info.
No proof of what you say.
Co-ex guys voted in ALPA, apparently expecting a better flow through to mainline. If Coex guys should be mad they ought to look to at their union for their predicament.
350 Driver, Alot of those folks you say that are "punks"
wasting Daddy's money were successful business people, switching careers, that earned their money and paid for the chance to get Multi time.
The other major group of pilots have very large loans to pay.
Why not pick on Comair?, ASA, they were PFT.



PS Fly Chicago, wasn't that a PFT too?

Flame on.

 

[pmoffitt]

In my opinion PFT is one thing but "OK we will take your money even if you only have 250hrs and put you in the right seat of a B1900" are two different things. Gulfstream will take anything. Back when ASA, Chicago Express, and Comair were PFT, you at least had to get past an interview first. There is no interview at Gulfstream, send us money and we will send you an internship, which does not mean that you will make the line after the 250 hrs is up. When I was considering this alternative, I asked the recruiter the following question at least 10 times. "How many guys in the class that graduated from simulator\IOE 3 months prior were picked up by mainline Gulfstream(This was around June 1 when I asked the question)". He refused to give me a straight answer and after a little deductive reasoning, I discovered that I would have been in line with about 90 to 120 pilots in front of me for hire after the internship. The recruiter would keep quoting numbers from before 9/11 and the furloughs of we have 15 guys a month go to the majors and we put 18 guys in a class each month. I guess he thought I was stupid or something.

PFT training was a thing from yesterday not for today.

I am now glad I did not chose to go with them for other reasons as well now.

 

[captjim]

Co-ex guys voted in ALPA, apparently expecting a better flow through to mainline. If Coex guys should be mad they ought to look to at their union for their predicament.

No, that is not why ALPA was voted in to CAL/CALEX. We are one MEC, and as such we thought they would be of great help. As someone who works with the union, I can say they are a huge help! The flow-through was not an issue.

As far as other companies flying "COEX" routs, that's a CAL mainline scope issue. We have very little control over what Continental Airlines manegment wants to do.

 

[350DRIVER]

2000-
I am sure their are many good pilots at Gulf- that isn't the issue..
The problem that many have including myself is "how" this program is set up and the whole concept of "renting" out the right seat for a large sum of money. This post was flame from the get go and as you can tell people have strong comments about such a program. The sad thing is that Gulf Joke is saying to alot of operators out there that it is "OK" to rent a seat out and why should they have to HIRE someone when they can profit at someones own expense- that is the PROBLEM I have with this.
I have never paid a dime for a job and I never will, this program is a complete and total embarrassment to the industry and I think that is the bottom line. Eagle Jet Intl. does a very similiar thing and this is also looked down upon and I sure hope that other flight departments do not follow in their backwards footsteps.


3 5 0

 

[Airline Pilot27]

JPPT2000
I may be a little arrogant but I am definently NOT ignorant. I have been unfortunate enough to share the skies with Scabstream in the Carribean and the Bahamas. And if make a few jokes at the expense of the GFA scab operation it is only to vent of a little steam as to what I view as a growing cancer on the piloting profession....ahh to hell with it. Lets make all airlines Pay to Fly
This really is a dead subject though fellas

 

[bobbysamd]

Inaccuracies

. . . . Alot of those folks you say that are "punks"
wasting Daddy's money were successful business people, switching careers, that earned their money and paid for the chance to get Multi time.

Once more, violins, anyone?

I was not a businessman but a guy working for an employer, and a career changer before it became popular. I had no money. Fortunately, for me at the time, I had no dependents, so I could earmark my discretionary income for flying. I started the same way that most younger (than me) people start, by flight instructing. Somehow, through work and perseverence, I built the multi time you see on my profile. What's stopping these "successful business people" from doing the same?

The other major group of pilots have very large loans to pay. Why not pick on Comair?, ASA, they were PFT.

That's inaccurate. I am no lover of CAA, but it is not P-F-T. The Commercial-Multi-Instrument-CFI you earn there can be shopped anywhere. For once, let's get the definition of P-F-T right. P-F-T is when you pay for training as a condition of employment at a particular company, that training is specific to that company and applies only to that company.

I second 350Driver regarding the talent at Gulfstream. I am sure there are plenty of good pilots at Gulfstream. That's really immaterial because these discussions tend to turn on the intent of the program. Pilots who've worked hard to build a career will resent those who try to pull an end-run around them via their checkbook.

 

[Britpilot]

Re: Inaccuracies

Once more, violins, anyone?

Pilots who've worked hard to build a career will resent those who try to pull an end-run around them via their checkbook.

Absolute crap. I paid for my B1900 training as a requirement of getting hired. I have NEVER seen any resentment to myself because of what I did. Given the opportunity I would do the same again. I DID work hard to get where I am and I had to get through all the training to get on line, it was no gift trust me. Please do not make such incorrect assumptions about those of us who made this decision.

 

[350DRIVER]

I DID work hard to get where I am and I had to get through all the training to get on line, it was no gift trust me. Please do not make such incorrect assumptions about those of us who made this decision.

I don't remember anyone questioning your work ethics(!)....
The "principal" still remains the same with regards to this program and how it UNDERCUTS other aviation professionals and I doubt many would say that comment is an "assumption"- I think a better word would be "FACT".

3 5 0

Although he!! why don't all airlines RENT the right seat out.?? Because the is WRONG and that is a "FACT"-

 

[Britpilot]

So, you are stating that my co-workers resent me because I paid for my job? Sorry you are wrong, I have been at my company for over four years and this is not the case as I am sure it is not the case at Comair ect. My check book and I are still very happy, sorry if this offends you.

 

[mckpickle]

Personally Nigel I am very offended.

YA ANYWAY, I've tried to stay away from this one and I was wondering when PFT was going to come up. Fact is, I dont think Anyone in the industry (sans maybe eagle?) did NOT have PFT 4-5 years ago.

 

[kilomike]

Driving is Better

I CANNOT believe that Gulfscab is still in business charging $500 for the flight to Nassau AND charging the FO for flight time!!

I'm going to the Keys in November. I'll be landing in FLL off of a major airline flight and then DRIVING the rest of the way. Yes, DRIVING!! I"d rather trust myself than some kid with a couple hundred hours and a fat wallet. I have an ATP and about 2900 hours TT. I would have MORE experience than the crew combined--so dang it I'm DRIVING! It's cheaper and one he^^ of alot safer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Three cheers for Hertz, Alamo, Florida Auto Rental and Budget!! I hope the whole world finds out about gulfscab so that the auto rental folks can make a killing until the ugly beast dies and goes to purgatory for a loooooooooooong time after a slow and painful death.

 

[willi7]

Ignorance is bliss!!! You PFT guys need to realize that every seat you pay for as a training FO is one less paying job for pilots!!!!!!
On paying dues. Paying dues to me is flight instructing for years living on very little money and ramen, while living in a dump.... Then you fly cargo in crappy airplanes in lovely weather at night in the winter, where it's cold, living on ramen, making little money and living in an even bigger dump........ I would love to hear what you consider Paying Dues is, Checkbook cramp!!!
Evertime the industry takes a dump, people like you are more than happy to take advantage of your newly aquired profossional skills.....

 

[Britpilot]

Ignorance is bliss!!! You PFT guys need to realize that every seat you pay for as a training FO is one less paying job for pilots!!!!!!
On paying dues. Paying dues to me is flight instructing for years living on very little money and ramen, while living in a dump.... Then you fly cargo in crappy airplanes in lovely weather at night in the winter, where it's cold, living on ramen, making little money and living in an even bigger dump........ I would love to hear what you consider Paying Dues is, Checkbook cramp!!!
Evertime the industry takes a dump, people like you are more than happy to take advantage of your newly aquired profossional skills.....

How about 2000 hours instruction given over four years,or flying boxes in an Aztec, enough dues paid?
I am very glad I paid to go to my airline, even happier that you wont be there. The old check book still looks real good to me.

 

[Britpilot]

Personally Nigel I am very offended.

YA ANYWAY, I've tried to stay away from this one and I was wondering when PFT was going to come up. Fact is, I dont think Anyone in the industry (sans maybe eagle?) did NOT have PFT 4-5 years ago.

Steve, sorry for any and all offense,if there is any thing I can do to make this up? Like maybe a cuban now and again?
It's everybodys noble right to be a moron but some people abuse the privilage.

 

[bobbysamd]

P-F-T v. Age Discrimination

How about 2000 hours instruction given over four years,or flying boxes in an Aztec, enough dues paid?
I am very glad I paid to go to my airline, even happier that you wont be there. The old check book still looks real good to me.

You should have been hired on those quals alone. You didn't need to pay for your job.

Sometimes, for older pilots, who aren't playing on a level playing field with younger people, the checkbook might be the equalizer against the rampant age discrimination exercised by regional airline H.R. That was the situation I faced eleven years ago. My quals were as good or better than my younger peers. There was no reason for me, or any older pilot, to suffer age discrimination.

I did not want people to think I got the job only because I bought it. Notwithstanding all the other negative aspects of P-F-T, to me, no job was worth buying.

To thine ownself be true.