Gulfstream getting CoEx Routes?

[bobbysamd]

Inaccuracies

. . . . Alot of those folks you say that are "punks"
wasting Daddy's money were successful business people, switching careers, that earned their money and paid for the chance to get Multi time.

Once more, violins, anyone?

I was not a businessman but a guy working for an employer, and a career changer before it became popular. I had no money. Fortunately, for me at the time, I had no dependents, so I could earmark my discretionary income for flying. I started the same way that most younger (than me) people start, by flight instructing. Somehow, through work and perseverence, I built the multi time you see on my profile. What's stopping these "successful business people" from doing the same?

The other major group of pilots have very large loans to pay. Why not pick on Comair?, ASA, they were PFT.

That's inaccurate. I am no lover of CAA, but it is not P-F-T. The Commercial-Multi-Instrument-CFI you earn there can be shopped anywhere. For once, let's get the definition of P-F-T right. P-F-T is when you pay for training as a condition of employment at a particular company, that training is specific to that company and applies only to that company.

I second 350Driver regarding the talent at Gulfstream. I am sure there are plenty of good pilots at Gulfstream. That's really immaterial because these discussions tend to turn on the intent of the program. Pilots who've worked hard to build a career will resent those who try to pull an end-run around them via their checkbook.

 

[Britpilot]

Re: Inaccuracies

Once more, violins, anyone?

Pilots who've worked hard to build a career will resent those who try to pull an end-run around them via their checkbook.

Absolute crap. I paid for my B1900 training as a requirement of getting hired. I have NEVER seen any resentment to myself because of what I did. Given the opportunity I would do the same again. I DID work hard to get where I am and I had to get through all the training to get on line, it was no gift trust me. Please do not make such incorrect assumptions about those of us who made this decision.

 

[350DRIVER]

I DID work hard to get where I am and I had to get through all the training to get on line, it was no gift trust me. Please do not make such incorrect assumptions about those of us who made this decision.

I don't remember anyone questioning your work ethics(!)....
The "principal" still remains the same with regards to this program and how it UNDERCUTS other aviation professionals and I doubt many would say that comment is an "assumption"- I think a better word would be "FACT".

3 5 0

Although he!! why don't all airlines RENT the right seat out.?? Because the is WRONG and that is a "FACT"-

 

[Britpilot]

So, you are stating that my co-workers resent me because I paid for my job? Sorry you are wrong, I have been at my company for over four years and this is not the case as I am sure it is not the case at Comair ect. My check book and I are still very happy, sorry if this offends you.

 

[mckpickle]

Personally Nigel I am very offended.

YA ANYWAY, I've tried to stay away from this one and I was wondering when PFT was going to come up. Fact is, I dont think Anyone in the industry (sans maybe eagle?) did NOT have PFT 4-5 years ago.

 

[kilomike]

Driving is Better

I CANNOT believe that Gulfscab is still in business charging $500 for the flight to Nassau AND charging the FO for flight time!!

I'm going to the Keys in November. I'll be landing in FLL off of a major airline flight and then DRIVING the rest of the way. Yes, DRIVING!! I"d rather trust myself than some kid with a couple hundred hours and a fat wallet. I have an ATP and about 2900 hours TT. I would have MORE experience than the crew combined--so dang it I'm DRIVING! It's cheaper and one he^^ of alot safer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Three cheers for Hertz, Alamo, Florida Auto Rental and Budget!! I hope the whole world finds out about gulfscab so that the auto rental folks can make a killing until the ugly beast dies and goes to purgatory for a loooooooooooong time after a slow and painful death.

 

[willi7]

Ignorance is bliss!!! You PFT guys need to realize that every seat you pay for as a training FO is one less paying job for pilots!!!!!!
On paying dues. Paying dues to me is flight instructing for years living on very little money and ramen, while living in a dump.... Then you fly cargo in crappy airplanes in lovely weather at night in the winter, where it's cold, living on ramen, making little money and living in an even bigger dump........ I would love to hear what you consider Paying Dues is, Checkbook cramp!!!
Evertime the industry takes a dump, people like you are more than happy to take advantage of your newly aquired profossional skills.....

 

[Britpilot]

Ignorance is bliss!!! You PFT guys need to realize that every seat you pay for as a training FO is one less paying job for pilots!!!!!!
On paying dues. Paying dues to me is flight instructing for years living on very little money and ramen, while living in a dump.... Then you fly cargo in crappy airplanes in lovely weather at night in the winter, where it's cold, living on ramen, making little money and living in an even bigger dump........ I would love to hear what you consider Paying Dues is, Checkbook cramp!!!
Evertime the industry takes a dump, people like you are more than happy to take advantage of your newly aquired profossional skills.....

How about 2000 hours instruction given over four years,or flying boxes in an Aztec, enough dues paid?
I am very glad I paid to go to my airline, even happier that you wont be there. The old check book still looks real good to me.

 

[Britpilot]

Personally Nigel I am very offended.

YA ANYWAY, I've tried to stay away from this one and I was wondering when PFT was going to come up. Fact is, I dont think Anyone in the industry (sans maybe eagle?) did NOT have PFT 4-5 years ago.

Steve, sorry for any and all offense,if there is any thing I can do to make this up? Like maybe a cuban now and again?
It's everybodys noble right to be a moron but some people abuse the privilage.

 

[bobbysamd]

P-F-T v. Age Discrimination

How about 2000 hours instruction given over four years,or flying boxes in an Aztec, enough dues paid?
I am very glad I paid to go to my airline, even happier that you wont be there. The old check book still looks real good to me.

You should have been hired on those quals alone. You didn't need to pay for your job.

Sometimes, for older pilots, who aren't playing on a level playing field with younger people, the checkbook might be the equalizer against the rampant age discrimination exercised by regional airline H.R. That was the situation I faced eleven years ago. My quals were as good or better than my younger peers. There was no reason for me, or any older pilot, to suffer age discrimination.

I did not want people to think I got the job only because I bought it. Notwithstanding all the other negative aspects of P-F-T, to me, no job was worth buying.

To thine ownself be true.

 

[Britpilot]

My job was worth it and I have no problem looking myself in the mirror, no regrets and the view from the left seat of this E-145 is wonderful. I would rather do this than anything else, that was my motivation. If you don't like or can't deal with this sorry, enjoy your desk job and your peace of mind.

 

[jppt2000]

Pilots who've worked hard to build a career will resent those who try to pull an end-run around them via their checkbook.

Saddly, there are too many well qualified individuals chasing too few well paying jobs.
Good luck, work hard, good for you. Some people choose to take their chances and invest their money in a chance to get a $10 dollar per hour job for 250 hours. Nothing is guaranteed at Gulfstream. You gotta perform well or you don't get on. Gulfstream doesn't "give" you anything. Period.
Getting a job in aviation is mainly being in the right place at the right time with the right qualifications.
How people choose to get those qualifications can vary widely from the military, GA flight instructing, flying bank checks or even GIA.
You Gulfstream flamers are ignorant and very much misinformed.
They have an excellent training program. Continental mainline ownes a huge piece of them.


How about 2000 hours instruction given over four years,or flying boxes in an Aztec, enough dues paid?
Sure, but when you are hiring for 1900 positions, or other commuter positions, who are you gonna hire first?
No disrespect intended, I'm not cutting down your experience or abilities, I'm looking at your credentials from an HR standpoint. Gees those HR people many times don't have PPL's. Quite often they rely on the old adage The only way to forecast future performance is to look at past performance.
You gotta get by the HR person.


Ignorance is bliss!!! You PFT guys need to realize that every seat you pay for as a training FO is one less paying job for pilots!!!!!!

Actually I disagree. There are far more instructing jobs open for people who want to build their time instructing.

That's inaccurate. I am no lover of CAA, but it is not P-F-T. The Commercial-Multi-Instrument-CFI you earn there can be shopped anywhere. For once, let's get the definition of P-F-T right. P-F-T is when you pay for training as a condition of employment at a particular company, that training is specific to that company and applies only to that company.

Yes, Comair is not PFT now but it was for over 3 years. It stopped three and a half years ago. As well as ASA.
With Delta taking huge losses, you might just see it start back up again.
PS ASA folks are saying furloughed Mainline guys are getting hired into RJ.

 

[bobbysamd]

P-F-T v. peace of mind

My job was worth it and I have no problem looking myself in the mirror, no regrets and the view from the left seat of this E-145 is wonderful. I would rather do this than anything else, that was my motivation. If you don't like or can't deal with this sorry, enjoy your desk job and your peace of mind.

I do enjoy my peace of mind, very much, thank you. Best of luck to you.

 

[youngin']

Tell me something, why is it when I blast CHQ for being whores to the industry and taking COEX routes I get flamed, but when a Gulfstream guy does it everyone flames him? ITS THE SAME THING. And thats why we are pissed off. It doesn't matter if DAL or United took our (yes our) routes. Its still the same. That flying is OUR flying. We were owned by CAL, we were promised a flough through to CAL, and we are the ones Screwed by Gordon(lorenzo) Baboon! Now they want some lower bidding NON ALPA carrier with no spine to do our old routes while we park airplanes(and still pay the leases) AND have 383 pilots on furlough and hundreds more displaced as captains to F/o's. (Hello alter ego airline) 3m1900fo, id sugest you pay your dues and get hired by a real airline because as soon as you show up in IAH CLE OR EWR your life will not be pleasant. Do not pander to the lowest common denominator.

Welcome to the game called life. I'm surprised that you were never taught as a child that life isn't always fair, and sometimes you are forced into situations which aren't exactly desireable, but it's all part of the game my friend. CHECK THIS ONE OUT: The Rolling Stone's song 'You can't always get what you want'

 

[bobbysamd]

Unfairness

Welcome to the game called life. I'm surprised that you were never taught as a child that life isn't always fair, and sometimes you are forced into situations which aren't exactly desireable, but it's all part of the game my friend. CHECK THIS ONE OUT: The Rolling Stone's song 'You can't always get what you want'

While we're on the subject of British rock groups:

Buy you a diamond ring, my friend, if it makes you feel all right . . . I'll give you all I've got to give, if it makes you feel all right. . . . I don't care too much for money, for money can't buy me love.

--The Beatles, circa 1965

. . . though money can buy you an FO seat.

No, life is not always fair. But, I don't see anyone holding a gun to one's head to P-F-T, either.

Once more, to thine ownself be true.