Gulfstream First Officer Program

[BoredToDeath]

Seems to me that the only clueless pilot is you Bored.

Oh please enlighten me you all knowing, all powerfull, 1900 check airman.

Your a freakin joke if you can't answer a simple question instead of refering to some Freashman Phyc. babble B.S. ie:"Your question does not warrant an answer. Have you been reading what I have been saying all along? You will find your answer there."

So whats it gonna be? Are you are SCUMBAG or not? Did you get hired at GIA without writing a check or did you sell your soul to the Devil to be an airline pilot, wait I mean Flight School babysitter?

 

[Pilot877]

I would appreciate a little respect for me and my colleagues because WE are the ones that make this airline work safely. Continental, United and Northwest know that since they have audited us in the past and know first hand how we operate.

Well, thanks for sharing that information, I really had no idea that GIA pilots work under a labor contract or have union representation.

Basically, you will find very little respect for GIA around here because none of these guys and gals like the idea that people can walk into GIA and pay for a shortcut to an airline job while they have been busting their butts for years to gain valuable experience for sub-standard wages. Speaking of sub-standard wages, it really irkes me that there are folks out there who dare to call themselves airline pilots and collect paychecks for $8 an hour after they paid $25K for the wonderful title of Paid First Officer. A lot of pilots out there feel that this practice cheapens the industry.

So, while I am happy to hear that your company does have a real pilot group, and I wish you luck on gaining respect in the aviation world, I feel that it will be an uphill battle and that your First Officer program will make your airline the butt of many jokes yet to come.

 

[B190Captain]

Oh please enlighten me you all knowing, all powerfull, 1900 check airman.

Your a freakin joke if you can't answer a simple question instead of refering to some Freashman Phyc. babble B.S. ie:"Your question does not warrant an answer. Have you been reading what I have been saying all along? You will find your answer there."

So whats it gonna be? Are you are SCUMBAG or not? Did you get hired at GIA without writing a check or did you sell your soul to the Devil to be an airline pilot, wait I mean Flight School babysitter?

Flight School Babysitter? That sounds more like a CFI. I don't work for a flight school. But since I feel sorry for your lack of maturity and intelligence, I will spell it out for you.

N-O I did not pay to get hired at GIA.

So please don't make yourself look even more foolish by saying another word.

But above all, FLY SAFE.

 

[B190Captain]

Well, thanks for sharing that information, I really had no idea that GIA pilots work under a labor contract or have union representation.

Basically, you will find very little respect for GIA around here because none of these guys and gals like the idea that people can walk into GIA and pay for a shortcut to an airline job while they have been busting their butts for years to gain valuable experience for sub-standard wages. Speaking of sub-standard wages, it really irkes me that there are folks out there who dare to call themselves airline pilots and collect paychecks for $8 an hour after they paid $25K for the wonderful title of Paid First Officer. A lot of pilots out there feel that this practice cheapens the industry.

So, while I am happy to hear that your company does have a real pilot group, and I wish you luck on gaining respect in the aviation world, I feel that it will be an uphill battle and that your First Officer program will make your airline the butt of many jokes yet to come.

A quest for respect is not my intention. I just stated the facts about a subject others bark about with little or no knowledge used to support what they are saying. At the same time defending my integrity as a pilot with my airline. Sorry if I fail to see anything wrong with that.


Fly Safe!!

 

[BoredToDeath]

Flight School Babysitter? That sounds more like a CFI. I don't work for a flight school. But since I feel sorry for your lack of maturity and intelligence, I will spell it out for you.

N-O I did not pay to get hired at GIA.

So please don't make yourself look even more foolish by saying another word.

But above all, FLY SAFE.

I've seen your operation and if your in the left seat with a PFT SCUMBAG next to ya, then they might as well call you a CFI. Your the one I feel sorry for. As far as maturity and intelligence go, of course you could say that I lack those things when I give an opinion of your operation that is less than favorable. How about if I praised GIA and thought they were WONDERFULL from the begining of this thread? Would I then be as mature and intelligent as you? Or would I be wasting my time endlessly trying to reach so high?

I am however glad that after all that you can come clean an say that you did not buy your job. Your no longer a SCUMBAG. Was it really that hard for you to have said that from the very begining though? If you had I doubt this thread would have gone this far.

 

[wil]

Ever heard the expression, "tarred with the same brush?"

 

[Nindiri]

I have flown with several former GIA FO's at my company, and all of them were professional and competent. That doesn't mean I endorse their PFT program; I think there are better and cheaper ways to build time, but that doesn't mean that the full-time GIA pilots are any less professional than anyone else.

To be blunt, I think that anyone who calls someone else a derogatory name simply because that person chose another route to the airlines than he did is a sad person who tries to blame others for his own career problems. I preferred to build experience by flying corporate until I had enough time to qualify without PFT, but I have no problem with someone who chooses to work his butt off saving his money for a PFT program. No one owes you a job, and the PFTer is not stealing anyone's job.

 

[bobbysamd]

Job theft by P-F-T

No one owes you a job, and the PFTer is not stealing anyone's job.

So, then, what is the PFTer doing when he/she pays Gulfstream $53,994 or a certificated Commercial pilot pays $23,940? I will tell you. He/she is using the power of the checkbook to get a job that ordinarily would be obtained and held by a more experienced pilot. The checkbook enabled this less-experienced person to ace out the better-qualified person.

I agree that no one is owed a job. No one is owed anything. But cutting in line ahead of others by virtue of money is not playing by the rules. Although most of these folks get their 250 hours at Gulfstream and leave, their crew position is still required by the regs. It's still a job. Not only is it wrong to pay for a job, in any business, it is wrong to eliminate others from the same opportunity because they cannot or will not pay for a job. I understand that Gulfstream does not hire FOs off the street and that P-F-T is the only route to an FO "job" there. I also realize that other regionals are non-P-F-T. Just the same, it is still a job.

I never heard of such a thing until I entered aviation. P-F-T is outrageous.

I realize we have traveled this road many, many times before. But this comment had to be addressed.

 

[Pilot877]

Yeah, Bobby, well-said.

Too bad it has to be that way, ya know it sure would be a nice little regional job cruising FL and the Bahamas. Of course, the PFT thing screws that all up.

 

[Nindiri]

Using personal money to gain an advantage in the job market has been around as long as capitalism. The alternative is communism.

I agree with you that PFT is not good, but calling someone else a "scumbag" because they choose to take advantage of it doesn't show much class. People should accept responsibility for their own career instead of trying to blame others.

 

[100LL... Again!]

PFT? I say let 'em go ahead and do it...

But they should be prepared to bear the consequences, such as a lot of other pilots thinking that they are marginally skilled wanna-bes.

Sorry, guys!

 

[bobbysamd]

P-F-T

PFT? I say let 'em go ahead and do it...

Is that anything like Marie Antoinette saying, "let them eat cake"?

But they should be prepared to bear the consequences, such as a lot of other pilots thinking that they are marginally skilled wanna-bes.

Or but for P-F-T they wouldn't have been hired.

That was one reason why I refused to consider P-F-T. I wanted it known that I would have been hired on my quals and experience, and that I was worthy of the job.

 

[Publishers]

Bobby

Bobby, upiu know I respect your opinion and ethic, however, it did not really work for you if I read your posts correctly.

While it is great rhetoric to say one would be hired on qualifications and experience, the fact is that there are a ton of people hired everyday because they have a silver bullet or know someone, right place at right time, etc..

One of the reasons that I have never been harsh on Gulfstream is that I do not believe that most people are doing anything they can to get the job. They wish they had the inside track or knew someone or etc.

 

[aviatrix]

Re: Job theft by P-F-T

I agree that no one is owed a job. No one is owed anything. But cutting in line ahead of others by virtue of money is not playing by the rules. Although most of these folks get their 250 hours at Gulfstream and leave, their crew position is still required by the regs. It's still a job. Not only is it wrong to pay for a job, in any business, it is wrong to eliminate others from the same opportunity because they cannot or will not pay for a job. I understand that Gulfstream does not hire FOs off the street and that P-F-T is the only route to an FO "job" there. I also realize that other regionals are non-P-F-T. Just the same, it is still a job.

Exactly! And to expand upon it even more, in today's market of pilot over-abundance, and airline management wanting to slash wages, the scores of F/O wanna-be's (and yes, I do believe that is what GIA Commerical pilots are at that point) who pony up that astronomical amount of cash for some 1900 time operating under a part 121 certificate just lends ammunition to airline management who use it as leverage against their pilot groups!
They are well aware that if their pilot force doesn't accept the recent marginal contract, or worse, accept wage concessions, that there are 1000's of other pilots who would gladly have their jobs!
This industry did not use to be this cut-throat, and things are changing little by little, and not in the favor of the pilots!
PFT is just something that we hope others will avoid simply by their own scruples and will-power! One who engages in PFT programs may not necessarily be a sub-standard pilot, and they may not be an outstanding one either. It just says something about the person who is willing to take that route! And I hope that in the long run it comes back to haunt them later, possibly at their first real airline job interview!
Just my 2 cents!

 

[bobbysamd]

Gulfstream P-F-T v. it's not what you know, it's who you know

Bobby, upiu know I respect your opinion and ethic, however, it did not really work for you if I read your posts correctly.

Thanks, Pub.

It clearly did not work out, though I believe that institutional prejudices impinged upon my chances, as I have written prolifically elsewhere. In any event, as I wrote above, I could not have stood myself for having bought a job. Anyone can buy a job, despite all the fancy platitudes about having to meet "strict" qualifications. Let's be real. The only "qual" needed was a bank account (or Dad's bank account) of sufficient size. During my era of the early '90s, P-F-T soon became about the only way to gain access to commuter flying.

I would also mention that I did have interviews at non P-F-T regionals. So, either I was brought in to meet a quota, which I suspect to be the case, and/or I was considered to be qualified. Assuming for argument's sake the latter, P-F-T as my only chance was insulting and degrading. In other words, I was already considered to be qualified on paper without needing P-F-T or other help.

While it is great rhetoric to say one would be hired on qualifications and experience, the fact is that there are a ton of people hired everyday because they have a silver bullet or know someone, right place at right time, etc..

Of course. Although sometimes you do not have an inside contact, or a bud who can walk in a resume. Sometimes, the only way is to apply off the street. In a way, not having that contact tilts the playing field to your disadvantage, however . . . .

One of the reasons that I have never been harsh on Gulfstream is that I do not believe that most people are doing anything they can to get the job. They wish they had the inside track or knew someone or etc.

But that's my point. Some people are better networkers than others. I see no harm or ethical penalty in networking, save for the classic "dad who is neighbor with the chief pilot" which lets an otherwise-unqualified pilot cut in line ahead of the qualified. I know few people who would not resent such a connection. Otherwise, networking does not involve the exchange of money for a job. But Gulfstream P-F-T does. By power of the buck the playing field is not only tilted, it has been turned vertical. That is wrong.