Gulfstream Academy "pilot factory" SCAM Revealed By CNN

[DX Rick]

I wonder what happens if the media gets on the CFI aspect. FO with 1600 hours of instruction was part of the crew if I remember correctly. Then the media can get info on how many accidents and fatalities have occured with CFI's doing instruction. Then what - maybe raise the requirement to 1500 + hours before allowing an individual to instruct?

Good try, but when a CFI puts a super duper massive C-172 into the ground, it usually just kills himself and the student. It might bounce off a car or two. Land on and flatten a squirel....but not killing 50+ people.
Little planes crash all the time, we barely hear about them.

 

[rustypigeon]

Okay i understand your point of view on pft, but that is not what this thread is about. So flying 135 your pax were not important because there was only a handful 2 to 6 pax? or was your 135 experience doing night cargo? If that is the case you did get some good experience with that operation, and you deserve to be where your at, but not everyone goes that way. If you want to argue pft do it on another thread that talks about pft. And i invite anyone who things they are a great pilot to come fly one day of 7 hours and no autopilot in the crap weather in the NE. I am not claiming to be chuck Yeager just saying GIA pilots are as good stick and rudder guys as you will find. what bad habits our pilots pick up when they leave to other airlines is not out fault, ex. flying with autopilot improperly, not scanning all information, not using basic pilotage which should of been taught at the private level. Who does those check rides o yea the FAA

You asked how one gains experience in order to fly for a 121 carrier. You kind of asked your question as if there was no other choice but to pay for a right seat.

I simply told you a more practical method of obtaining that experience, and what you could do with the money you would save.

 

[s3jetman]

Good try, but when a CFI puts a super duper massive C-172 into the ground, it usually just kills himself and the student. It might bounce off a car or two. Land on and flatten a squirel....but not killing 50+ people.
Little planes crash all the time, we barely hear about them.

Unless that one person is your wife, husband, kid, father, mother, or friend then all of a sudden it will matter to you. Thats a stupid argument and if your going with it then GIA is the best place because they are only going to kill 19 at a time not 50. Worthless and stupid comment on your part

 

[HA25]

I don't think that anyone is saying, blanket statement that all GIA trained pilots are idiots, that's a very stupid thing to say if anyone is.. the fact is there are a lot of GIA trained pilots making good decisions and flying safely all over the system... what people ARE saying is.. GIA isn't he best way to train pilots, and to insure they're getting a good amount of that critical thing called PIC.. PIC in a C152 is still "hot seat" time and you are the final authority over that aircraft.. you don't get to look over to the left seat and ask, "now what?"... you ARE the left seat. This is a critical and formative part of what makes a pilot, but more importantly is a critical weeding out process that some just don't make it thru (for many reasons).. FAA violations, Accidents, or simply scaring themselves to death once too many with a student..

So again, are GIA pilots all poor? no.. surely many of them are professionals and take pride in their job and learn it to the best of their ability.. but, is GIA the best way to train pilots? Far from it..

 

[s3jetman]

I don't think that anyone is saying, blanket statement that all GIA trained pilots are idiots, that's a very stupid thing to say if anyone is.. the fact is there are a lot of GIA trained pilots making good decisions and flying safely all over the system... what people ARE saying is.. GIA isn't he best way to train pilots, and to insure they're getting a good amount of that critical thing called PIC.. PIC in a C152 is still "hot seat" time and you are the final authority over that aircraft.. you don't get to look over to the left seat and ask, "now what?"... you ARE the left seat. This is a critical and formative part of what makes a pilot, but more importantly is a critical weeding out process that some just don't make it thru (for many reasons).. FAA violations, Accidents, or simply scaring themselves to death once too many with a student..

So again, are GIA pilots all poor? no.. surely many of them are professionals and take pride in their job and learn it to the best of their ability.. but, is GIA the best way to train pilots? Far from it..

Point well addressed. I am just sick of the way the media is saying that all GIA pilots are dangerous and are going to kill people. Your opinion is your opinion and your entitled to it. At least you use some common sense when discussing this matter. We all need to work together to ensure that our paxs are the safest they can be and how we do that will require team work from everyone in this industry and the FAA.

 

[AerroMatt]

ATP for Part 121 operations, or Why instruct for 1000hrs instead of PFT?

Consider:

One of the most common maneuvers a CFI teaches is the Stall recognition / Stall recovery. After teaching this a few hundred times, the CFI quickly recognizes when the person at the controls has made the wrong control input and will say "I have the controls" and recover correctly.

Did the Captain of Colgan 3407 ever hold a CFI? If he had, I think he would have realized what the correct action should have been. Pulling the yoke into ones lap is a knee-jerk reaction to an unexpected situation.

Did the FO of Colgan 3407 ever hold a CFI? I am thinking that if she had, she could have recognized the problem the capt was having and could have assisted more assertively. Maybe she could have taken over during those 6 seconds that the yoke was back in the Captains lap.

I'm positive GIA produces some fine pilots, but this one slipped though the cracks I'm afraid.

 

[Kream926]

Okay just a question for all those who say you should have many, 1500, hours before you are allowed to fly 121. How well does flying 2000 hours in a 172 prepare you for the 121 flying environment? Sure you will be good at basic airmanship but how many times do you fly at night, in ice conditions, with a stick shaker, pusher, and complex airplane. If you watch the video the captain did not touch the power and lost 35kts of airspeed, changed configuration three times with flaps and gear, autopilot still on, and yet to touch the power. AP kicks off, the airplane i am sure is trimmed nose up to the sky, ac pitches up stalls shaker/pusher, then the captain pulls back after the pusher. How does flying a 172, Archer, Arrow, Seminole, what ever prepare you for this kind of flying. And its not GIA fault as they do not have AP or shaker/pusher on the 1900. I think it would be Colgan's responsibility to train a pilot on the AC that he is flying. I have trained many pilots in the sim for GIA and have seen many 1000, 2000 hours plus pilots fail. So question is how is one to gain experience flying in the type of weather and environment the airline pilots fly in? I just don't understand how pilots are to gain experience to fly for a 121 carrier. GIA has trained over 3000 pilots without ever having a fatality at our airline. But all of a sudden a pilot that has been gone for 4 years has 3000 plus hours, at least 6 checkrides, 1 being a fed ride for his ATP, all while at Colgan and nobody ever recognized the faults of this pilot, but its GIA fault the the training he did 4 years ago?? Just don't understand.

so you went to gulfstream i see...

what the fu*k DO YOU THING WE DO AN ORAL FOR? huh??



you know what im so aggravated at your post im going to stop typing, i will say this though. CJC3407's pilots, both of them ********************ed up the ******************** up big time. all she had to say was "push the ********************ing nose down". if that ********************ing guy knew his systems (unlike most of you) he would have known there IS NO STALL WARNING OR PROTECTION SYSTEM FOR TAIL PLANE ICING

 

[Poahi]

ATP for Part 121 operations, or Why instruct for 1000hrs instead of PFT?

Consider:

Did the FO of Colgan 3407 ever hold a CFI? I am thinking that if she had, she could have recognized the problem the capt was having and could have assisted more assertively.

Time to consider a different theory:

http://www.pnwlocalnews.com/news/39570794.html

 

[AerroMatt]

Time to consider a different theory:

http://www.pnwlocalnews.com/news/39570794.html

So she was a CFI. Makes it worse for sure. I will have you note that in the quote you extracted from my post I said she, "could have assisted more assertively." I did NOT say she would have done so. How much time did she log as a CFI, I wonder?

Speculation abounds. I think its still worth considering. The fact remains they were as much as 35 degrees nose up with the yoke all the way in both their laps, and neither one mentioned either the airspeed nor said anything about "push the yoke forward!"

 

[FastJP4]

Good try, but when a CFI puts a super duper massive C-172 into the ground, it usually just kills himself and the student. It might bounce off a car or two. Land on and flatten a squirel....but not killing 50+ people.
Little planes crash all the time, we barely hear about them.

We're talking about principles here. Many suggest a minimum of an ATP for 121 flying. I concur that if they end up requiring that for 121, they should also require that for 135 & 91k. In this case however, I don't think it would have made a difference.

Nice try? I wonder how many people in those "super duper massive 172's" you refer to have been killed in the last 5 - 10 years with their flight instructors? Sadly, I'm sure the number is higher than it was in this tragedy. Are those lives less valuable because they are happening in a small plane? My point was you had an ATP and an FO that was a 1600 hour instructor operating this flight, and it appears they both f'd up. If instructing is the holy grail based mechanism as so many seem to suggest - then how did this happen?

I am playing devils advocate here for a reason. I think GIA and all of the others that have had PFT are fair game in that aspect, but to suggest they had anything to do with this guy some 3,000 hours later is absurd. And the one thing that seems to stick in my mind is GIA has never (knock on wood) had a fatality. How many other regionals can say that?

Personally, what may have helped to avoid this, help curb the SJS that seems to afflict a high percentage of those entering the regional level, help to raise pay and avoid the PFT aspect is to really raise the bar on experience. Why not require any pax operation, no matter which FAR it's operating under, to require a minimum of 2,500 for all pilots.