Gulfstream Academy "pilot factory" SCAM Revealed By CNN

[Quiet Flight]

All GulfSuck cares about is putting money in the coffers.

Won't disagree with you there, but the rest of my point holds water. And here's another scary variable. I believe in the 21 years Gulfstream Int'l Airlines has been in business, they have managed to achieve a ZERO fatality safety record. ZERO. So far... Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Captjiggles]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarzan

All GulfSuck cares about is putting money in the coffers.

Won't disagree with you there, but the rest of my point holds water. And here's another scary variable. I believe in the 21 years Gulfstream Int'l Airlines has been in business, they have managed to achieve a ZERO fatality safety record. ZERO. So far... Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

These guys would never see that side of it.....They dont care about that. Sad.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The harsh reality of getting any sort of real regulatory action is that it goes against the interest of those who pump huge amounts of lobbying dollars into D.C. It's in the interest of the airlines to keep your pay low and "public outrage" will only last until the next big story hits the airwaves and then it'll be forgotten. However, I completely understand where you guys are coming from...As long as the airlines can get away such low time requirements and have a seemingly endless supply of folks wanting to "live the dream", they will continue to make a joke of the profession.
I'm on the other side of the coin but with as similar problem. As an A&P mechanic, I feel that there should also be MUCH more regulation into our field. Companies have gotten away with rampant outsourcing and many have a very high ratio of uncertificated to certificated people. I would love to see a system more in line with the European model. Higher standards would mean a better trained mechanics, a larger barrier to entry, and ultimately better pay and QOL.
I suppose that this is an industry wide problem and sometimes I think aviation is a lost cause altogether in light of what a career in aviation (pilot or mech.) has become.

good post... to add.... it is much more than an industry wide problem.... it is an American cultural problem.....

Many if not most industries are going through radical change..... simply put American consumers what the most for the minimum.....

Pilots, when they function as consumers, do the same in other industries that they loath passengers for doing in the airline industry.... max for the min

 

[HA25]

FedEx Flight 80 - Captain - USMC, F/O - USAF, Lt. Col (Ret.)
American Flight 587 - Captain - USAF
American Flight 1420 - Captain - USAF

This is an outrage!!! The public should know about these "Pilot Factories" and should shut them down! Their pilots are dangerous. Just like Maverick!!! AAAHHH!!!! Congress!! CONGRESS!!!! WHERE ARE YOU?? SULLY, SAVE US!!!!!

Doesn't it worry you that many (surly not all) of these Gulfstream trainees might not accrue a lot of PIC experience until they actually take command of a passenger carrying airliner? The test of a pilots judgement aught not be with 19-100 paying passengers in the back.

you can theoretically get a 250 Commercial pilot with minimal solo time, into the 1900 for an additional 200-300 hours of Multi-turbine time, then to the right seat of a CRJ, then Left seat.. first PIC being a CRJ.. that worries me a lot.

A 1500 CFI with 1200 of PIC in Pipers, and light twins has been tested a lot of times, as is the USAF 2500 pilot with 8-10 years of service.

 

[DX Rick]

Please, let's not talk about the ATP in this thread. This is about how Gulfstream and GIA sucks, as do all their pilots *cough cough* PFT_128.
Hell, not even Mesa has been called out by CNN. That's bad!

 

[machophil]

FedEx Flight 80 - Captain - USMC, F/O - USAF, Lt. Col (Ret.)
American Flight 587 - Captain - USAF
American Flight 1420 - Captain - USAF

This is an outrage!!! The public should know about these "Pilot Factories" and should shut them down! Their pilots are dangerous. Just like Maverick!!! AAAHHH!!!! Congress!! CONGRESS!!!! WHERE ARE YOU?? SULLY, SAVE US!!!!!

haha, this is my favorite post so far.

Unfortunately, this sort of sound reasoning is not welcomed by the self-appointed experts on FI. How dare you rain on our narcissistic hysteria with that inconvenient piece of evidence!

 

[brokedash]

Hey,
As long as Britney Spears keep her shaved hoho under wraps Gulfstream is gonna remain the "sweetheart" target for the media. If the pressure stays on long enough congress, will enact legislation to "fix" the problem. The cheapest and easiest "fix" will be the requirement for all pilots flying 121, to be ATP rated.
PBR

Actually the easiest fix would be to make an example of Gulfscam by having the DOT and FAA pull the plug and shut down both the airline and the puppy mill.

 

[s3jetman]

Okay just a question for all those who say you should have many, 1500, hours before you are allowed to fly 121. How well does flying 2000 hours in a 172 prepare you for the 121 flying environment? Sure you will be good at basic airmanship but how many times do you fly at night, in ice conditions, with a stick shaker, pusher, and complex airplane. If you watch the video the captain did not touch the power and lost 35kts of airspeed, changed configuration three times with flaps and gear, autopilot still on, and yet to touch the power. AP kicks off, the airplane i am sure is trimmed nose up to the sky, ac pitches up stalls shaker/pusher, then the captain pulls back after the pusher. How does flying a 172, Archer, Arrow, Seminole, what ever prepare you for this kind of flying. And its not GIA fault as they do not have AP or shaker/pusher on the 1900. I think it would be Colgan's responsibility to train a pilot on the AC that he is flying. I have trained many pilots in the sim for GIA and have seen many 1000, 2000 hours plus pilots fail. So question is how is one to gain experience flying in the type of weather and environment the airline pilots fly in? I just don't understand how pilots are to gain experience to fly for a 121 carrier. GIA has trained over 3000 pilots without ever having a fatality at our airline. But all of a sudden a pilot that has been gone for 4 years has 3000 plus hours, at least 6 checkrides, 1 being a fed ride for his ATP, all while at Colgan and nobody ever recognized the faults of this pilot, but its GIA fault the the training he did 4 years ago?? Just don't understand.

 

[s3jetman]

Actually the easiest fix would be to make an example of Gulfscam by having the DOT and FAA pull the plug and shut down both the airline and the puppy mill.

Funny thing is GIA is an FAA approved training program and facility. If you want to point fingers point to the FAA for allowing GIA to train pilots with a multi-comm cert.

 

[PCL_128]

The statistics are NOT in favor of Gulfstream.

Actually, they are. GIA's safety record is impeccable. Twenty years without a single fatality. About the worst thing that's ever happened to them has been a gear malfunction and the crew had to land with the nose gear still up. No injuries. Not even a scraped knee.

 

[rustypigeon]

So question is how is one to gain experience flying in the type of weather and environment the airline pilots fly in? I just don't understand how pilots are to gain experience to fly for a 121 carrier. Just don't understand.

Well, there are a lot of us who instructed until we had 135 mins. We then flew 135 until we had enough experience to look respectable during our 121 interview.

Paying to sit in the right seat is not the way many of us choose to begin our careers. That money is better spent for a down payment on a house.

Understand now?

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Well, there are a lot of us who instructed until we had 135 mins. We then flew 135 until we had enough experience to look respectable during our 121 interview.

Paying to sit in the right seat is not the way many of us choose to begin our careers. That money is better spent for a down payment on a house.

Understand now?

Bingo. Although I kept building time flying corporate and aircraft sales on top of instructing until I got a call. I was one of the lowest time guys in the interview at 9E and I had 1700 hours. Then half my newhire class was GIA.

 

[cynic]

Today's headlines will be forgotten tomorrow. Though the dirty truth to poor pay, poor training and the continued degrading of our careers will just give the people stepping on our airplanes even less respect for us than they give now. None of this will change a thing except and even greater mocking of our careers. F>>K the media. I'm still smarter and mentally tougher than %80 of the people who step on my airplane. This job is not for the mentally or physically fragile and they should be grateful their pilot has the mental horsepower to stay intact in our industry's working conditions..THEY HAVE NO CLUE.

No, you are not. Its likely you are just average. Most people are. Since we are on the topic; you are not a better driver than most, nor are you a better than average pilot and you are definitely not unique or special.

 

[Nindiri]

Well, there are a lot of us who instructed until we had 135 mins. We then flew 135 until we had enough experience to look respectable during our 121 interview.

Paying to sit in the right seat is not the way many of us choose to begin our careers. That money is better spent for a down payment on a house.

Understand now?

Oh yeah, that's just what I'd want to do, bounce around in some beat up old Baron in crappy weather hoping to survive long enough to get that 121 job. You and I may have been lucky enough to get nice jobs to build experience, but not everyone has the chance. I was fortunate enough to be in the right time and place to get a nice corporate gig and build turbine time, but those jobs are limited and I would never criticize someone else for taking a different route to the right seat of a 121 airliner. If I was one of those kids and my choice was to rent a Seminole for 250 hours or spend the same money flying a turbine aircraft for 250 hours at GIA, the choice would be easy.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Okay just a question for all those who say you should have many, 1500, hours before you are allowed to fly 121. How well does flying 2000 hours in a 172 prepare you for the 121 flying environment? Sure you will be good at basic airmanship but how many times do you fly at night, in ice conditions, with a stick shaker, pusher, and complex airplane. If you watch the video the captain did not touch the power and lost 35kts of airspeed, changed configuration three times with flaps and gear, autopilot still on, and yet to touch the power. AP kicks off, the airplane i am sure is trimmed nose up to the sky, ac pitches up stalls shaker/pusher, then the captain pulls back after the pusher. How does flying a 172, Archer, Arrow, Seminole, what ever prepare you for this kind of flying. And its not GIA fault as they do not have AP or shaker/pusher on the 1900. I think it would be Colgan's responsibility to train a pilot on the AC that he is flying. I have trained many pilots in the sim for GIA and have seen many 1000, 2000 hours plus pilots fail. So question is how is one to gain experience flying in the type of weather and environment the airline pilots fly in? I just don't understand how pilots are to gain experience to fly for a 121 carrier. GIA has trained over 3000 pilots without ever having a fatality at our airline. But all of a sudden a pilot that has been gone for 4 years has 3000 plus hours, at least 6 checkrides, 1 being a fed ride for his ATP, all while at Colgan and nobody ever recognized the faults of this pilot, but its GIA fault the the training he did 4 years ago?? Just don't understand.

Its simple, 1500-2000 in the GA world will expose a pilot to all the temptations to stupid stuff and survive or.....not. Weather, ice WX are all thing that are put into the basket, its not rocket science. Its about attitude, and survival skills and GA simply hones those skills with minimal exposure to the flying public, do something stupid in a 152, you, your student and his cat are a smoking hole, sad but not a big deal, unless someone liked the cat. Gulfstream is about cutting corners career wise and as a result the types of people who would try to make the 410 klub or pitch up during a stall event show one common denominator, poor attitudes and skills, a bad combo. Sorry about the runons and spelling, 10 hours of Jack and Coke will make them less than important!
PBR

 

[s3jetman]

Well, there are a lot of us who instructed until we had 135 mins. We then flew 135 until we had enough experience to look respectable during our 121 interview.

Paying to sit in the right seat is not the way many of us choose to begin our careers. That money is better spent for a down payment on a house.

Understand now?

Okay i understand your point of view on pft, but that is not what this thread is about. So flying 135 your pax were not important because there was only a handful 2 to 6 pax? or was your 135 experience doing night cargo? If that is the case you did get some good experience with that operation, and you deserve to be where your at, but not everyone goes that way. If you want to argue pft do it on another thread that talks about pft. And i invite anyone who things they are a great pilot to come fly one day of 7 hours and no autopilot in the crap weather in the NE. I am not claiming to be chuck Yeager just saying GIA pilots are as good stick and rudder guys as you will find. what bad habits our pilots pick up when they leave to other airlines is not out fault, ex. flying with autopilot improperly, not scanning all information, not using basic pilotage which should of been taught at the private level. Who does those check rides o yea the FAA

 

[s3jetman]

Its simple, 1500-2000 in the GA world will expose a pilot to all the temptations to stupid stuff and survive or.....not. Weather, ice WX are all thing that are put into the basket, its not rocket science. Its about attitude, and survival skills and GA simply hones those skills with minimal exposure to the flying public, do something stupid in a 152, you, your student and his cat are a smoking hole, sad but not a big deal, unless someone liked the cat. Gulfstream is about cutting corners career wise and as a result the types of people who would try to make the 410 klub or pitch up during a stall event show one common denominator, poor attitudes and skills, a bad combo. Sorry about the runons and spelling, 10 hours of Jack and Coke will make them less than important!
PBR

First of all every airline has pilots that make stupid mistakes, 410k club, pitch up during stall, I do not disagree. but how is it GIA fault that these pilots made these mistakes when they have been in another airline for 3 plus years. if these pilots were improperly trained by GIA and were such horrible pilots why the hell didn't colgan and pinchinickle figure this out in any of the many checkrides these individuals took. I just dont get how after 3000 hours and over 6 checkrides at colgan you can say that GIA trained and its GIAs fault they crashed. So all buisness schools that the managers ceo's, etc from Enron, AIG, GM, Ford, Chrystler, All banks that failed, should be shut down because they did not teach the individuals good business practices. Give me a break man

 

[DrProc]

So all buisness schools that the managers ceo's, etc from Enron, AIG, GM, Ford, Chrystler, All banks that failed, should be shut down because they did not teach the individuals good business practices. Give me a break man

The banks and those failed companies weren't killing people!

 

[FastJP4]

I wonder what happens if the media gets on the CFI aspect. FO with 1600 hours of instruction was part of the crew if I remember correctly. Then the media can get info on how many accidents and fatalities have occured with CFI's doing instruction. Then what - maybe raise the requirement to 1500 + hours before allowing an individual to instruct?

 

[waka]

Why all this talk of just raising 121 standards and nothing of 135 or 91k? If ATP mins are required of a 121 FO candidates, they should also be required of a 135 FO candidate. If it is an operation that requires that the Captain have their ATP, then the FO should have at least ATP mins regardles of whether it is 121 or 135.