Gulfstream Academy "pilot factory" SCAM Revealed By CNN

[rustypigeon]

So question is how is one to gain experience flying in the type of weather and environment the airline pilots fly in? I just don't understand how pilots are to gain experience to fly for a 121 carrier. Just don't understand.

Well, there are a lot of us who instructed until we had 135 mins. We then flew 135 until we had enough experience to look respectable during our 121 interview.

Paying to sit in the right seat is not the way many of us choose to begin our careers. That money is better spent for a down payment on a house.

Understand now?

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Well, there are a lot of us who instructed until we had 135 mins. We then flew 135 until we had enough experience to look respectable during our 121 interview.

Paying to sit in the right seat is not the way many of us choose to begin our careers. That money is better spent for a down payment on a house.

Understand now?

Bingo. Although I kept building time flying corporate and aircraft sales on top of instructing until I got a call. I was one of the lowest time guys in the interview at 9E and I had 1700 hours. Then half my newhire class was GIA.

 

[cynic]

Today's headlines will be forgotten tomorrow. Though the dirty truth to poor pay, poor training and the continued degrading of our careers will just give the people stepping on our airplanes even less respect for us than they give now. None of this will change a thing except and even greater mocking of our careers. F>>K the media. I'm still smarter and mentally tougher than %80 of the people who step on my airplane. This job is not for the mentally or physically fragile and they should be grateful their pilot has the mental horsepower to stay intact in our industry's working conditions..THEY HAVE NO CLUE.

No, you are not. Its likely you are just average. Most people are. Since we are on the topic; you are not a better driver than most, nor are you a better than average pilot and you are definitely not unique or special.

 

[Nindiri]

Well, there are a lot of us who instructed until we had 135 mins. We then flew 135 until we had enough experience to look respectable during our 121 interview.

Paying to sit in the right seat is not the way many of us choose to begin our careers. That money is better spent for a down payment on a house.

Understand now?

Oh yeah, that's just what I'd want to do, bounce around in some beat up old Baron in crappy weather hoping to survive long enough to get that 121 job. You and I may have been lucky enough to get nice jobs to build experience, but not everyone has the chance. I was fortunate enough to be in the right time and place to get a nice corporate gig and build turbine time, but those jobs are limited and I would never criticize someone else for taking a different route to the right seat of a 121 airliner. If I was one of those kids and my choice was to rent a Seminole for 250 hours or spend the same money flying a turbine aircraft for 250 hours at GIA, the choice would be easy.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Okay just a question for all those who say you should have many, 1500, hours before you are allowed to fly 121. How well does flying 2000 hours in a 172 prepare you for the 121 flying environment? Sure you will be good at basic airmanship but how many times do you fly at night, in ice conditions, with a stick shaker, pusher, and complex airplane. If you watch the video the captain did not touch the power and lost 35kts of airspeed, changed configuration three times with flaps and gear, autopilot still on, and yet to touch the power. AP kicks off, the airplane i am sure is trimmed nose up to the sky, ac pitches up stalls shaker/pusher, then the captain pulls back after the pusher. How does flying a 172, Archer, Arrow, Seminole, what ever prepare you for this kind of flying. And its not GIA fault as they do not have AP or shaker/pusher on the 1900. I think it would be Colgan's responsibility to train a pilot on the AC that he is flying. I have trained many pilots in the sim for GIA and have seen many 1000, 2000 hours plus pilots fail. So question is how is one to gain experience flying in the type of weather and environment the airline pilots fly in? I just don't understand how pilots are to gain experience to fly for a 121 carrier. GIA has trained over 3000 pilots without ever having a fatality at our airline. But all of a sudden a pilot that has been gone for 4 years has 3000 plus hours, at least 6 checkrides, 1 being a fed ride for his ATP, all while at Colgan and nobody ever recognized the faults of this pilot, but its GIA fault the the training he did 4 years ago?? Just don't understand.

Its simple, 1500-2000 in the GA world will expose a pilot to all the temptations to stupid stuff and survive or.....not. Weather, ice WX are all thing that are put into the basket, its not rocket science. Its about attitude, and survival skills and GA simply hones those skills with minimal exposure to the flying public, do something stupid in a 152, you, your student and his cat are a smoking hole, sad but not a big deal, unless someone liked the cat. Gulfstream is about cutting corners career wise and as a result the types of people who would try to make the 410 klub or pitch up during a stall event show one common denominator, poor attitudes and skills, a bad combo. Sorry about the runons and spelling, 10 hours of Jack and Coke will make them less than important!
PBR

 

[s3jetman]

Well, there are a lot of us who instructed until we had 135 mins. We then flew 135 until we had enough experience to look respectable during our 121 interview.

Paying to sit in the right seat is not the way many of us choose to begin our careers. That money is better spent for a down payment on a house.

Understand now?

Okay i understand your point of view on pft, but that is not what this thread is about. So flying 135 your pax were not important because there was only a handful 2 to 6 pax? or was your 135 experience doing night cargo? If that is the case you did get some good experience with that operation, and you deserve to be where your at, but not everyone goes that way. If you want to argue pft do it on another thread that talks about pft. And i invite anyone who things they are a great pilot to come fly one day of 7 hours and no autopilot in the crap weather in the NE. I am not claiming to be chuck Yeager just saying GIA pilots are as good stick and rudder guys as you will find. what bad habits our pilots pick up when they leave to other airlines is not out fault, ex. flying with autopilot improperly, not scanning all information, not using basic pilotage which should of been taught at the private level. Who does those check rides o yea the FAA

 

[s3jetman]

Its simple, 1500-2000 in the GA world will expose a pilot to all the temptations to stupid stuff and survive or.....not. Weather, ice WX are all thing that are put into the basket, its not rocket science. Its about attitude, and survival skills and GA simply hones those skills with minimal exposure to the flying public, do something stupid in a 152, you, your student and his cat are a smoking hole, sad but not a big deal, unless someone liked the cat. Gulfstream is about cutting corners career wise and as a result the types of people who would try to make the 410 klub or pitch up during a stall event show one common denominator, poor attitudes and skills, a bad combo. Sorry about the runons and spelling, 10 hours of Jack and Coke will make them less than important!
PBR

First of all every airline has pilots that make stupid mistakes, 410k club, pitch up during stall, I do not disagree. but how is it GIA fault that these pilots made these mistakes when they have been in another airline for 3 plus years. if these pilots were improperly trained by GIA and were such horrible pilots why the hell didn't colgan and pinchinickle figure this out in any of the many checkrides these individuals took. I just dont get how after 3000 hours and over 6 checkrides at colgan you can say that GIA trained and its GIAs fault they crashed. So all buisness schools that the managers ceo's, etc from Enron, AIG, GM, Ford, Chrystler, All banks that failed, should be shut down because they did not teach the individuals good business practices. Give me a break man

 

[DrProc]

So all buisness schools that the managers ceo's, etc from Enron, AIG, GM, Ford, Chrystler, All banks that failed, should be shut down because they did not teach the individuals good business practices. Give me a break man

The banks and those failed companies weren't killing people!

 

[FastJP4]

I wonder what happens if the media gets on the CFI aspect. FO with 1600 hours of instruction was part of the crew if I remember correctly. Then the media can get info on how many accidents and fatalities have occured with CFI's doing instruction. Then what - maybe raise the requirement to 1500 + hours before allowing an individual to instruct?

 

[waka]

Why all this talk of just raising 121 standards and nothing of 135 or 91k? If ATP mins are required of a 121 FO candidates, they should also be required of a 135 FO candidate. If it is an operation that requires that the Captain have their ATP, then the FO should have at least ATP mins regardles of whether it is 121 or 135.