Gulfstream Academy "pilot factory" SCAM Revealed By CNN

Tarzan

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I figured by now the furor would have dies down some but it don't look thataway do it?
 

BrickTop

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Today's headlines will be forgotten tomorrow. Though the dirty truth to poor pay, poor training and the continued degrading of our careers will just give the people stepping on our airplanes even less respect for us than they give now. None of this will change a thing except and even greater mocking of our careers. F>>K the media. I'm still smarter and mentally tougher than %80 of the people who step on my airplane. This job is not for the mentally or physically fragile and they should be grateful their pilot has the mental horsepower to stay intact in our industry's working conditions..THEY HAVE NO CLUE.
 
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PBRstreetgang

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Hey,
As long as Britney Spears keep her shaved hoho under wraps Gulfstream is gonna remain the "sweetheart" target for the media. If the pressure stays on long enough congress, will enact legislation to "fix" the problem. The cheapest and easiest "fix" will be the requirement for all pilots flying 121, to be ATP rated.
PBR
 

JustaNumber

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If the pressure stays on long enough congress, will enact legislation to "fix" the problem. The cheapest and easiest "fix" will be the requirement for all pilots flying 121, to be ATP rated.
PBR
I agree, but is there enough political will to overcome the industry pressure to keep the status quo? Does anyone know if ALPA's PAC is officially proposing anything like this?
 

BrickTop

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Hey,
As long as Britney Spears keep her shaved hoho under wraps Gulfstream is gonna remain the "sweetheart" target for the media. If the pressure stays on long enough congress, will enact legislation to "fix" the problem. The cheapest and easiest "fix" will be the requirement for all pilots flying 121, to be ATP rated.
PBR
ATP standards won't fix the problem. Pilots will only spend additional time as instructors and acquire their ATP before applying to regionals. They still will be willing to work for pennies after many years of instructing. The entire training and experience pathway needs to be changed that prohibits pilots without high experience from becoming employed at regional airlines. 2500TT and Turbine aircraft requirements by the FAA for 121 employment will lead the way to more experienced applicants and higher salaries. Until there are numerous accidents linking experience and pay to fatalities, don't expect any changes.
 

PBRstreetgang

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ATP standards won't fix the problem. Pilots will only spend additional time as instructors and acquire their ATP before applying to regionals. They still will be willing to work for pennies after many years of instructing. The entire training and experience pathway needs to be changed that prohibits pilots without high experience from becoming employed at regional airlines. 2500TT and Turbine aircraft requirements by the FAA for 121 employment will lead the way to more experienced applicants and higher salaries. Until there are numerous accidents linking experience and pay to fatalities, don't expect any changes.
Hey,
I wholeheartedly agree, the ATP is only a start. Unless the steps are small the regional airline industry will squash any change. The ATP may slip under the radar.
PBR
 

COOPERVANE

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agreed
 

cjdriver

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Actually, if an ATP is required, all the silver spoon kids will realize it takes a lot more than money to make it in aviation, and they will then find something else they can buy their way into that doesn't take years. This would weed out a lot of folks and wages would therefore go up. Call your legislators and ask them to pressure the faa to require an ATP (gasp) for all airline pilots. You will be helping to improve the state of the industry.
 

SEVEN

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Today's headlines will be forgotten tomorrow.
Until the next airplane crash involving a former Gulfstream pilot happens.:eek:
The statistics are NOT in favor of Gulfstream.
 

ualdriver

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As much as I hate Gulfstream and its program, I'm not sure I agree with the correlation they're trying to make. Regardless, like many of you, I think it's asking for trouble when you place low time pilots in the right seat of an Part 121 aircraft. If this sheds some light on that problem and perhaps embarrasses major airlines (like Continental) enough so they don't contract out their flying out to scummy operations like Gulfstream, then all the better. I'll be TIVO'ing that CNN morning show to see what they come up with.
 

PeanuckleCRJ

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Requiring the ATP cert would immediately squash all programs like that. Although the scumbags would probably come up with some other scam.
 

SpoilerFault

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The harsh reality of getting any sort of real regulatory action is that it goes against the interest of those who pump huge amounts of lobbying dollars into D.C. It's in the interest of the airlines to keep your pay low and "public outrage" will only last until the next big story hits the airwaves and then it'll be forgotten. However, I completely understand where you guys are coming from...As long as the airlines can get away such low time requirements and have a seemingly endless supply of folks wanting to "live the dream", they will continue to make a joke of the profession.
I'm on the other side of the coin but with as similar problem. As an A&P mechanic, I feel that there should also be MUCH more regulation into our field. Companies have gotten away with rampant outsourcing and many have a very high ratio of uncertificated to certificated people. I would love to see a system more in line with the European model. Higher standards would mean a better trained mechanics, a larger barrier to entry, and ultimately better pay and QOL.
I suppose that this is an industry wide problem and sometimes I think aviation is a lost cause altogether in light of what a career in aviation (pilot or mech.) has become.
 

PBRstreetgang

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The harsh reality of getting any sort of real regulatory action is that it goes against the interest of those who pump huge amounts of lobbying dollars into D.C. It's in the interest of the airlines to keep your pay low and "public outrage" will only last until the next big story hits the airwaves and then it'll be forgotten. However, I completely understand where you guys are coming from...As long as the airlines can get away such low time requirements and have a seemingly endless supply of folks wanting to "live the dream", they will continue to make a joke of the profession.
I'm on the other side of the coin but with as similar problem. As an A&P mechanic, I feel that there should also be MUCH more regulation into our field. Companies have gotten away with rampant outsourcing and many have a very high ratio of uncertificated to certificated people. I would love to see a system more in line with the European model. Higher standards would mean a better trained mechanics, a larger barrier to entry, and ultimately better pay and QOL.
I suppose that this is an industry wide problem and sometimes I think aviation is a lost cause altogether in light of what a career in aviation (pilot or mech.) has become.
ditto, what he just said!
 

HA25

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ATP standards won't fix the problem. Pilots will only spend additional time as instructors and acquire their ATP before applying to regionals. They still will be willing to work for pennies after many years of instructing. The entire training and experience pathway needs to be changed that prohibits pilots without high experience from becoming employed at regional airlines. 2500TT and Turbine aircraft requirements by the FAA for 121 employment will lead the way to more experienced applicants and higher salaries. Until there are numerous accidents linking experience and pay to fatalities, don't expect any changes.
Being an instructor itself is a weeding out process, and grants the prospective airline pilot a bunch of "hot seat" PIC time, even if in a C-152 or Seneca.... but to give someone their first command in a turboprop or CRJ is a bit frightening, and that's what GIA enables.
 

zasca

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I remember waiting for an interview with a Gulfstream guy a few years back. I was studying my previous multi-engine aircraft for basic systems questions in the technical interview. This dude asks what I'm doing. I explain, and he asks me to give him an example question. "What type of engine is on the 1900?". He has no idea and gets all frazzled....

The guy had two seconds earlier been all smug about having 1500 hrs of turbine. You can't train stupid and ATP mins/ticket won't do jack sh!t.
 

Salukipilot4590

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The guy had two seconds earlier been all smug about having 1500 hrs of turbine. You can't train stupid and ATP mins/ticket won't do jack sh!t.
This.

If we make the minimums ATP then a school will pop up just timebuilding to ATP minimums.

Maybe we should make all airline applicants posess at least a CFI with 200 and 24mo. (i.e. being able to teach a CFI candidate)

/ramble
 

Quiet Flight

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FedEx Flight 80 - Captain - USMC, F/O - USAF, Lt. Col (Ret.)
American Flight 587 - Captain - USAF
American Flight 1420 - Captain - USAF

This is an outrage!!! The public should know about these "Pilot Factories" and should shut them down! Their pilots are dangerous. Just like Maverick!!! AAAHHH!!!! Congress!! CONGRESS!!!! WHERE ARE YOU?? SULLY, SAVE US!!!!!
 
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Tarzan

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FedEx Flight 80 - Captain - USMC, F/O - USAF, Lt. Col (Ret.)
American Flight 587 - Captain - USAF
American Flight 1420 - Captain - USAF

This is an outrage!!! The public should know about these "Pilot Factories (U.S. Military)" and should shut them down! Their pilots are dangerous. Just like Maverick!!! AAAHHH!!!! Congress!! CONGRESS!!!! WHERE ARE YOU?? SULLY, SAVE US!!!!!
Apples to oranges, Sir.

The USAF has all sorts of cog tests to see if a pilot will have the aptitude to be a pilot. I've the opportunity to fly with some navs getting the private licenses before they started the AF program and ALL of them were natural pilots. Show them a maneuver once and they could generally perform it flawlessly after that. They studied too. Ask them to review and ask them questions the next day... Always knew the answer.

All GulfSuck cares about is putting money in the coffers.
 

rumorhasit

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What about the passengers? All they care about is getting from NYC to LA for 200 bucks, they don't care how much the pilot is being paid or how they(pilot) got there. The airlines accomadate them(passengers) with the pilots that will fly the a/c for the lowest rate ie. outfits like GA or others. You tell the passengers their ticket price went up 50 bucks to pay the pilots....won't be pretty.
 
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