Good First Officers?

[TonyC]

take the fat one

You're all delusional if you don't realize the only "picking" is done by the "hot chick."










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[~~~^~~~]

a good f/o is NOT afraid of conflict!!! know your position and know when to assert it. It is ok to tell a capt to get bent if he is out of line.

Wrong, wrong, wrong....

The cockpit is no place for anger, or conflict.

Certainly, speak up and in the very rare instance (may never happen to anyone on this board) that you see your crew about to bend an airplane, or hurt someone - take the airplane.

I got on the brakes once as an FO because a Captain did not see a hole he was about to taxi into. On another occassion I stowed the spoilers without being prompted because the situation called for an immediate response. In both cases the Captain's one word reply was, Thanks

There is no point in getting angry. Getting mad, or being rude, is a distraction. If two pilots are so crossed up about something that they are distracting each other in the cockpit then it is time to bid another trip, see your union's Professional Standards representatives, or a Chief Pilot.

In the rare instance that a pilot is being an @$$, deal with it as long as you can. Don't risk safety by lowering yourself. The illustration that sticks with me is the Alaska ( I think ) 727 that ran off the runway on the Captain's leg. The approach was poor and the FO cautioned that it did not look good, several times. The Captain and Second Officer berated the FO and made jokes about his skills and position. Then, as the airplane was crashing, going into the weeds the FO spoke up, only to say, "I told you so." Proper Crew Resource Management could have prevented that crash.

Captains appreciate a good first officer and dread a first officer that is weak. A good First Officer not only knows their job, the checklist flows, the radio calls, and smooth manipulation of the controls - a good First Officer thinks like a Captain - Is the airplane airworthy? Is the weather and fuel adequate? Does the crew have what they need? Is the crew enjoying their job and focused on accomplishing the mission?

The cockpit is really staffed by two equals. One of the two gets paid more because the Company uses his Certificate to operate the airplane. The person with his Certificate on the line also has ultimate veto power because they have ultimate responsibility. A Captain can delegate authority, but never responsibility.

Because of that fact, it may seem that some Captains are nit picky. Some of these pilots have had problems and are being extra careful. Just as you would be nervous in the passenger seat of somebody's sports car going really fast, Captains can get pretty nervous watching new FO's learning to fly the aircraft. If you are uncomfortable, let the Captain know and you can soften it by saying that you will fly the airplane conservatively.

All Captains have flown with new FO's who see the line as a place to experiment with the things they did not do in training. When this happens is scares the beejeesus out of the Captain if he does not know what is coming. So be understanding if your Captain is sheel shocked from his lask FO experience, if he is tired, or things at home are not going great. Help out your Captain by being open and communicative and feel free to ask for help when you need it. I've done plenty of paperwork and external inspections and if my FO is rushed on a 30 minute turn, I'm happy to help out.

~~~^~~~

 

[surplus1]

Just started as an F/O wondering if any captains out there had any inputs of which characteristics make a good F/O.

You'll never learn the characteristics that make a good F/O until you're lucky enough to fly with someone that has the characteristics to be a good Captain.

When you meet that person for the first time you'll know it right away; then ask him.

Keep in mind that not all people that sit in the left-seat are Captains; most are just pilots with more seniority than you. Sadly, a great many shouldn't be there at all.

Good luck.

 

[jobear]

You're all delusional if you don't realize the only "picking" is done by the "hot chick."


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But TonyC you only get to dry hump a box or envelope.



Jobear

 

[TonyC]

But TonyC you only get to dry hump a box or envelope.



Jobear

Never once has any of them called my wife at home.












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[pianoman]

Certainly, speak up and in the very rare instance (may never happen to anyone on this board) that you see your crew about to bend an airplane, or hurt someone - take the airplane.

I got on the brakes once as an FO because a Captain did not see a hole he was about to taxi into. On another occassion I stowed the spoilers without being prompted because the situation called for an immediate response. In both cases the Captain's one word reply was, Thanks

~~~^~~~

I like the brakes thing. I tell FO's that before we leave the gate on the first day. It worked the other day. We had a tug hauling a&& from the right side and I couldn't see him.

FO: "you might want to slow down".
Me: (braking slightly) "huh?"
FO: "BRAKES!!!!"

Thank God he saw the poor bastard. The tug driver locked up his brakes and about 5 baggage carts he was towing just jackknifed. I guess he wasn't paying attention.

But that was one instance where the FO saw something I plain couldn't and really saved the day.

 

[FlyChicaga]

For those saying the FO can "take the fat one," do you really believe there is a choice anymore? It's "take the fat one" or "take the dude." That's why I just choose to keep my pen out of the company ink so to speak, do my job, and go home. Where I find attractive women without issues that seem to grow every time they get on the jumpseat and can gossip.

Oh yeah, and the ever-so-elusive hot one? Well she's either got VD, knows better about pilots, or is waiting for marriage.

 

[C425Driver]

You're all delusional if you don't realize the only "picking" is done by the "hot chick."










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She will pick the one with the fatter wallet!


C425Driver

 

[acaTerry]

?!!

The funny thing is that all these smart alec remarks by Captains of REGIONAL JETS (check your ego at the door) are coming from guys who have never learned to be a good FO, and certainly have no clue on how to be a Captain.
When I upgraded to a new plane, it was the high-time FO, not my 4th stripe, that made it possible to "learn the ropes" of the new equipment I was on.
Just watch your Captains, remember the things that made you like flying with them, and do the same. And as much of a pain in the rear end that they are, still make the effort to make it a nice flight for the pax.
Good luck and welcome to the club.

 

[dash8driver]

a good FO is one that is able to remember and stick to the story the captain gives you during the briefing before the visit to the CP's office.




on a more serious note..

be flexible. learn his personality, strengths and weaknesses and work with those to ensure a safe flight. a good FO will complement his strengths and cover his weaknesses... just like he is (should be) doing for you. keep the big picture in mind...getting there safely. remember, you two are a team working against murphy.

 

[SLFLYHI]

A lot of good responses on here, and I've got one more..... A good F.O. is a Captain in training. Act like it. Be as professional you can in all situations - even if the guy/gal to your left isn't. Think like a Captain. (That doesn't mean do the things Captains are required to do) Know the dispatch release. Become familiar with the MELs and what they mean. Don't assume the dispatcher and captain have verified any MELs that may exist and their expiration times. Question routing when there is weather. Do things that AREN'T required of you - like listen carefully to the Captain's briefing to the FA, balance the fuel often, and don't be afraid to ask the person sitting next to you about something you don't understand - if they're worth anything they'll be happy to explain it to you. And if something doesn't look right - whether it's on the walk around, ATC, gate agents, etc, go ahead and speak up about it - your Captain will respect you for having the guts to query outside party decisions.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

remember, you two are a team working against murphy.

Murphy is a dick.

 

[fotyfobravo]

A good F/O does his job ahead of time...by the book...and checks on me whenever I'm not ! Don't assume that the Captain is doing it wrong on purpose.

 

[Mookie]

Don't tell your captain how much you can't wait to upgrade/transition to another plane. While you are doing that, you are probably not doing something that is important in your current position.

Mookie

 

[LearDriver04]

Just stay sharp on the systems, anticipate needs (the captain's and the customer's), keep your head held high if you get one of "those" kind of captains (ref. Le Pilote), and soak up all the good you can from everybody you get to fly with. Throw out their bad habits and tweak your style so that YOU won't be one of "those" captains. Tailwinds and safe landings always!

 

[flagshipper]

don't take shat from any capt because they are just as stupid as you are they have just been there a little longer. All my scariest flying stories are from senior dumarse captains who are worthless and if i had not been so assertive they would have killed me. Oh yeah I don;t fly for a regional anymore so why the hell am I posting here. BEER??

 

[onionluvr]

Wrong!!

a good f/o is NOT afraid of conflict!!! know your position and know when to assert it. It is ok to tell a capt to get bent if he is out of line. That's your job. alot of us really view the fo as our #1 asset, so stand up !!

I hope you're joking. This is not how to deal with an "out of line" captain. Arguing and being combative has not place in an airplane. That's just an accident waiting to happen. When crews start arguing CRM goes out the window and now you have a dangerous situation where something important is going to get missed.

FO's need to adapt to the personality of the captain they are flying with. The captain sets the tone. Once the FO upgrades to captain then they can set the tone. But until then be flexible.

Being flexible and avoiding conflict doesn't mean you let a dangerous situation get out of hand, but pick your battles. Is there really a danger? Is a regulation or SOP being broken? Or does the captain just not do things the way that you would like?

If there is a safety issue then there are ways to bring it up. I think the best way is to ask it as a question. Something like...."hey I'm pretty new, but arent' we supposed to............ (insert whatever you want here)?"
The answer will be one of three things:

"Oh yeah you're right, thanks for pointing that out." Problem solved.

or

"No we are supposed to do this." In this case you can simply say "oh I must have misread that, mind if I look it up real quick so I don't forget again?" At which point look up the information and point out the discrepency to the CA or if you are wrong tell him you were and move on.

or

"Yeah we are supposed to do that but I'm not doing it that way." At this point you can ask "why." If you are not satisfied with the answer you have a more serious problem and you have to decide if this is a battle you want/need to pursue. If the flight your your certificates are not in danger I would say just keep quiet and deal with it on the ground. Otherwise try to resolve the problem with as little conflict as possible.

If a conflict does arise and you know you are right, make sure you win and make sure you are ready to defend yourself to the higher ups because I'm sure you will be talking to them. Remember, FAR's and SOP's are your friend in this case. As long as you are doing what they say you will be fine.

 

[labbats]

Great landing!

 

[Butafucco]

onion....you missed the spirit of my message.

Conflict, in this case is defined as anything other than agreement. I am talking about safety issues/policy issues that any certain individual values, for whatever their reasoning. this industry has shifted in a direction that will have way too many fo's who have thousands of hours in the cocpit of a certain aircraft. this fo can not say they are new and dont know policy. in my opinion that is a weak argument for even a new guy at any airline level. not saying it cant be an effective argument with a captain to get the job done, but why be-little yourself? if you have a position that you believe in, be understanding, but don't play the odds...it will burn you. Also, i want to make sure you understand conflict does not nead to take the direction of arguing. i have never "argued" in an aircraft. i agree that is a critical risk to safety. i have always been prepared to walk to the back of the aircraft and tell him he's single pilot if he's going that route.

actually got fired for it (was management i was dealing with) and was re hired because i was, in the end, right. This is what will get me to 60 yrs.

 

[belchfire]

And I haven't met a CPT that weighed less than 240 lbs

I've had a few gals, both as the CA and FO
that were really good to work with
and would even stoop to being seen
in public with me when we were done
flying...that takes alot of confidance
on their part!

You're clear on the right
Yes sir
Sorry sir
It must have been the wind
You got robbed
I'll take the fat chick
I checked the logs and they're good
(or maybe)...
Did you see that open writeup?
Are you sure about that alternate?
Do you want me to confirm that?

But the safest words in all of aviation
history are...

Fuque this!

It's a team effort. I gaurantee you that
if you watch your CA's back and do things
that make his/her life easier the good ones
will take care of you...if you do a good
job even the buttholes might treat you
right.

For those of you that are getting serious
about the "fat chick" remarks
GET A GRIP, IT'S A JOKE!!!
(Besides, if you really need some you'll
get to the room and be satisfied before
the old guy is done throwing money away
not getting any from the alleged hot one!)

The perfect 121 RON goes like this
The Engineer gets drunk,
the FO gets laid and
the CA has a bowel movement!

In all seriousness the best posts
were about teamwork and getting things
done on time. The only FO's that have ever
pissed me off were so far behind the airplane
that they wouldn't have been hurt in a wreck.
I'm not picking on new guys that just got
out of the box and are still learning the ropes.
I'm picking on the CA's that rush them...and the
few FO's that shouldn't have gotten through
training.

Most of the people in this business are pretty
good to work with. The dynamics rarely
make for a stress free environment. If you can
do something to make things easier or safer,
do it...and remember to have some fun where-
ever you go!