Gojet Class Starts

[pkober]

J32driver,

You can always get your reputation back with ALPA. All you have to do is pay a penalty fee and you are taken off of a "scab" list. ALPA's only principle is $$$$$$$.

The only people who are scabs are those who cross a picket line. BTW did the TSA pilots, and all other ALPA pilots, go to work when there fellow union brethren at ComAir and NWA went on strike? I seem to remember that they did. That was quiet a strong showing of union solidarity. Would that make them scabs?

I guess under the definition of most of the people on this thread, all pilots who work for a regional are scabs. They take flying away from the mainline. Give me a break. They aren't scabs anymore than anyone else you are accusing.

Also, I bet that when TSA started back in the 80's that they didn't have a union. If that is the case make sure that when you see an 80's hire at work that you refer to him as a "scab".

In the end I bet the GoJet will be union and integrated into TSA.

Just my two cents.

CLAMBAKE

 

[PCL_128]

You'e a PFT whore who is helping destroy the profession, and you would deny the jumpseat to furloughed ALPA members with years of service just because you don't like where they work?

It has nothing to do with not likeing where they work. I don't like JetBlue, but I would never deny a JetBlue jumpseater just because I'm not a fan of their airline. This has to do with stabbing the TSA pilots in the back. The whole purpose of GoJets is to get around ALPA and screw over the TSA pilots.

I'm embarrassed that you are a conservative.

The embarrassment here is you. You make all conservatives look bad with your crazy rants about how the guys losing their pensions deserve it because they didn't save enough money on the side. You must have missed the whole "compassionate" part of conservatism.

You want immediate dismissal of your own "sins" against the profession, since poor little you just didn't know any better, but you want to hold everyone else's feet to the fire?

I don't seek dismissal of my "sins" at all. I've said my apologies and you can either accept it or not. If not, then I really don't care. Believe it or not 100LL, I'm not losing any sleep because a jerk like you doesn't like me. In fact, it just makes me feel better.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

A more accurate definition of SCAB

J32driver,

You can always get your reputation back with ALPA. All you have to do is pay a penalty fee and you are taken off of a "scab" list. ALPA's only principle is $$$$$$$.

The only people who are scabs are those who cross a picket line. BTW did the TSA pilots, and all other ALPA pilots, go to work when there fellow union brethren at ComAir and NWA went on strike? I seem to remember that they did. That was quiet a strong showing of union solidarity. Would that make them scabs?

I guess under the definition of most of the people on this thread, all pilots who work for a regional are scabs. They take flying away from the mainline. Give me a break. They aren't scabs anymore than anyone else you are accusing.

Also, I bet that when TSA started back in the 80's that they didn't have a union. If that is the case make sure that when you see an 80's hire at work that you refer to him as a "scab".

In the end I bet the GoJet will be union and integrated into TSA.

Just my two cents.

CLAMBAKE

These are all excellent points. Most people yell SCAB, when by definition is is used incorrectly. I guess if has become the f-you of the airline industry lexicon!

Nobody likes to loose their job and be replaced, especially with the blessing of a union that is supposed to protect you or at least cry foul. I've said this before, "The enemy is at the gates, and it's us."

 

[AAflyer]

These are all excellent points. Most people yell SCAB, when by definition is is used incorrectly. I guess if has become the f-you off the airline industry lexicon!

Nobody likes to loose their job and be replaced, especially with the blessing of a union that is supposed to protect you or at least cry foul. I've said this before, "The enemy is at the gates, and it's us."

Jeff,

You are so correct. It has become the industry lexicon, however I seem to hear it more from the younger group in the business. Back in the 80s and 90s it was very evident "WHAT A SCAB WAS", now it is a flow-back, it is a person whom flies for an airline not liked, he11, it is just used as a word when people get pi$$ed off.

While I don;t agree with many things going on, the two things I do agree with; Don't be political about the jumpseat, and learn what a SCAB really is.

AA

I have to go back out and play in my lawn....

 

[100LL... Again!]

It has nothing to do with not likeing where they work. I don't like JetBlue, but I would never deny a JetBlue jumpseater just because I'm not a fan of their airline. This has to do with stabbing the TSA pilots in the back. The whole purpose of GoJets is to get around ALPA and screw over the TSA pilots.



The embarrassment here is you. You make all conservatives look bad with your crazy rants about how the guys losing their pensions deserve it because they didn't save enough money on the side. You must have missed the whole "compassionate" part of conservatism.



I don't seek dismissal of my "sins" at all. I've said my apologies and you can either accept it or not. If not, then I really don't care. Believe it or not 100LL, I'm not losing any sleep because a jerk like you doesn't like me. In fact, it just makes me feel better.

It has nothing to do with compassion regarding the pension issue. I am stating that mistakes were made on the part of pilot groups in that they trusted management. Stating a fact does not make one without compassion. I WILL say that the majority of Americans have no real pension, so I am not exactly crying them a river, you see.

Second, since you have apologized for your contribution to the race to the bottom, then the Gojet guys should get the same forgiveness, Mr. Compassion.

It's hilarious to see a newbie PFT rube like yourself strutting around like you are some sort of union tough guy.

You'll always be a PFT whore, and a trainee masquerading as an airline pilot.

 

[jehtplane]

You'll always be a PFT whore, and a trainee masquerading as an airline pilot.
[/QUOTE]



Why does Pay for training make you a whore, about 7 years ago it was the norm to get on with almost every regional airline.

 

[100LL... Again!]

If everyone is doing it, then it is the industry standard.

When you are paying big bucks to take a job that would otherwise go to a more experienced and likely more skilled pilot because you arrogantly assue that you are entitled to buy a shortcut, then you are a whore.

Trainees, all of 'em.

I think I might try to start a gulfstream scum list, and circulate it to all my airline buddies, explaining why the jumpseat should be denied because of their damaging actions.

Except for pcl128, of course, that scum apologized.

 

[jehtplane]

If everyone is doing it, then it is the industry standard.

When you are paying big bucks to take a job that would otherwise go to a more experienced and likely more skilled pilot because you arrogantly assue that you are entitled to buy a shortcut, then you are a whore.

Trainees, all of 'em.

So by that logic every pilot hired at a regional airline 7 years ago is a whore. Wow your lack of experience is showing

 

[jehtplane]

And yes back then it was the industry standard. Jacka$$.

 

[100LL... Again!]

So by that logic every pilot hired at a regional airline 7 years ago is a whore. Wow your lack of experience is showing

Nooooo, since everyone was doing it and since pilots with lots of experience were essentially FORCED to PFT, it was not a shortcut technique.

Shortcutting PFTers are whores. Perhaps I should have been more clear.

 

[PCL_128]

Second, since you have apologized for your contribution to the race to the bottom, then the Gojet guys should get the same forgiveness, Mr. Compassion.

The BloJets whores know what they are doing. They aren't newbies that don't know what SCABs, PFT, and alter-ego carriers are. They know that they are stabbing the TSA pilots in the back, and they just don't care. That's a big difference from the newbies at RAA, GIA, Riddle's CAPT program, etc... If you don't see the difference then you really are an idiot.

 

[Reebo]

J32driver,

You can always get your reputation back with ALPA. All you have to do is pay a penalty fee and you are taken off of a "scab" list. ALPA's only principle is $$$$$$$.

wrong! you are NEVER removed from the list. some scabs did penance and were forgiven by ALPA (but not forgotten) and re-admitted.

The only people who are scabs are those who cross a picket line. BTW did the TSA pilots, and all other ALPA pilots, go to work when there fellow union brethren at ComAir and NWA went on strike? I seem to remember that they did. That was quiet a strong showing of union solidarity. Would that make them scabs?

you answered your own question.the only people who are scabs are those who cross a picket line. other ALPA groups that flew during that time flew their own routes, not those of the striking carrier. we also paid our strike assement to help those on the picket line, gave jumpseats so they could get around and even walked the line with those on strike. i will let comair pilots speak on that but i feel there was quite a strong showing of union solidarity.

Also, I bet that when TSA started back in the 80's that they didn't have a union. If that is the case make sure that when you see an 80's hire at work that you refer to him as a "scab".

not hardly, you really need to educate yourself before you go off on your rants. TSA was started as a turbo prop operation carying folks from STL to the lodge of the four seasons (LOF) at the lake of the ozarks. no one flew this route and the airline wasnt created to get around anothers scope clause.

In the end I bet the GoJet will be union and integrated into TSA.

CLAMBAKE

thats the whole point. all flying under the TSA umbrella being flown by pilots on the TSA ALPA seniority list.

 

[8v8ter]

So by that logic every pilot hired at a regional airline 7 years ago is a whore. Wow your lack of experience is showing

Not true. I was hired at TSA in 1996 and they did not have any PFT and paid a 60 hour guarantee during training (70 hours on line, old contract).

This is not to defend how the management has treated the pilot group otherwise and Gojet trying to go around a very loyal and hardworking pilot group is criminal, just to save a few bucks.

 

[ren]

Anyone know who is in this first class yet?

 

[jobear]

wanna be scabs and freedom rejects?

 

[pkober]

Reebo,

Relax.

1st. Okay ALPA doesn't remove you from the list but they "forgive" you. Doesn't that bother you that a union will call you a "scab" one minute and then forgive you the next if you write them a check? It should, because I thought unions were about principle, not money. Trust me one day you too will see what ALPA is all about. I personally hope it doesn't happen to you, but it probably will.

2nd. I never said that the other ALPA pilots that flew during the ComAir and NWA strikes were scabs. They weren't. It was merely an example of the lack of union brotherhood that ALPA displays. Look at what the automotive worker unions do when there is a strike.

3rd. My TSA example was an attempt to show that if you call the GoJet guys "scabs" then I guess every major pilot could call every regional pilot a scab because they feel they are being stabbed in the back. I don't think that regional pilots are scabs before you go off on your "rant". BTW I was working at TSA in the 80's and they were flying in TWE colors.

Thanks

CLAMBAKE

 

[PCL_128]

1st. Okay ALPA doesn't remove you from the list but they "forgive" you. Doesn't that bother you that a union will call you a "scab" one minute and then forgive you the next if you write them a check? It should, because I thought unions were about principle, not money. Trust me one day you too will see what ALPA is all about. I personally hope it doesn't happen to you, but it probably will.

So you would have ALPA turn their back on the majority of the pilots at CAL that didn't SCAB just because a minority of them did? You should talk to someone that was on the ALPA BOD at the time and ask them what the reason was that they let CAL back into the fold. Were there a few people on the BOD seeing dollar signs at the thought of a few thousand more dues paying members? Sure. Overall however, most of the BOD members were more concerned with bringing the CAL ALPA pilots back that didn't SCAB. Yes, that means that the SCABs would also have an opportunity to join ALPA, but that's just what we have to deal with in order to bring the good CAL pilots back into ALPA.

2nd. I never said that the other ALPA pilots that flew during the ComAir and NWA strikes were scabs. They weren't. It was merely an example of the lack of union brotherhood that ALPA displays. Look at what the automotive worker unions do when there is a strike.

The UAW isn't bound by the restrictions of the Railway Labor Act. We don't have the latitude that other unions do. Look at what the APA had to pay in fines for their illegal sickout. I certainly don't want ALPA to have to pay out millions and millions of dollars in fines for illegal work actions that really aren't going to help the situation. Comparing the UAW to ALPA just doesn't work.

3rd. My TSA example was an attempt to show that if you call the GoJet guys "scabs" then I guess every major pilot could call every regional pilot a scab because they feel they are being stabbed in the back. I don't think that regional pilots are scabs before you go off on your "rant". BTW I was working at TSA in the 80's and they were flying in TWE colors.

The pilots at the majors knowingly negotiated away certain sections of their scope clause allowing regional pilots to fly certain airplanes and routes. Regional pilots didn't stab any major pilots in the back. We simply fly the flying that the major pilots negotiated away. The TSA pilots on the other hand didn't negotiate away anything. The management at TSA is trying to illegally create an alter ego carrier to get around ALPA. There is no comparison whatsoever.

 

[JackFlyer]

We simply fly the flying that the major pilots negotiated away.

So PCL-128....
1. Let's get this right. Basically as long as you are flying it, it is ok.

The TSA pilots on the other hand didn't negotiate away anything. The management at TSA is trying to illegally create an alter ego carrier to get around ALPA. There is no comparison whatsoever.

2. "TSA pilots didn't give anything away"... Your right their Negotating Comitee was way to stupid to properly word their contract to include the holding company in the definition on "the compnay." Again ALPA's to blame. Their policy of "Pilots negotiate for Pilots", when the company has professionals, is ludacris.

 

[FO 4 Life]

The management at TSA is trying to illegally create an alter ego carrier to get around ALPA.

Don't you mean get around APA?

 

[BluDevAv8r]

2. "TSA pilots didn't give anything away"... Your right their Negotating Comitee was way to stupid to properly word their contract to include the holding company in the definition on "the compnay." Again ALPA's to blame. Their policy of "Pilots negotiate for Pilots", when the company has professionals, is ludacris.

I believe there was no holding company in place at the time that the last TSA contract was signed.

Secondly, ALPA provides quite a bit in the way of negotiations assistance during negotiations. In other words, it isn't just "pilots negotiating for pilots." Professional negotiators, financial analysts, legal assistance, retirement and insurance assistance, etc. In the last year of bargaining our contract at ExpressJet, we had the Director of Representation, Assistant Director of Representation, as well as a Contract Administrator working with us. Yes, three attorneys from National advised us for the last 12 months and it was two prior to that point.

-Neal