Gojet Class Starts

[General Lee]

Neal,


The RJDC doesn't want to see the success of the Expressjet contract. In fact, they would say it wasn't a success since you weren't given the right to fly 737s. ALPA should have fought for you to fly all of the older CAL 737-500s----according to the RJDC guys..... If they want to fly bigger, or you want to fly bigger, then they and you should apply to CAL, and then your benefits and salary would eventually go up. I think your interpretation of your contract is correct. Congrats on the new contract.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Neal,


The RJDC doesn't want to see the success of the Expressjet contract. In fact, they would say it wasn't a success since you weren't given the right to fly 737s. ALPA should have fought for you to fly all of the older CAL 737-500s----according to the RJDC guys..... If they want to fly bigger, or you want to fly bigger, then they and you should apply to CAL, and then your benefits and salary would eventually go up. I think your interpretation of your contract is correct. Congrats on the new contract.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Thanks General. Sadly, the bolded part is what is truly the tragedy. In the utopian world, we would have one seniority list with CAL or at the minimum, a direct flow over there, but that boat was missed years ago sadly.

-Neal

 

[dispatchguy]

You know, it's funny and sad at the same time to watch pilots fight each other...

I think I'm going to go nuke a bag of popcorn and watch the show

 

[jetexas]

"HO Jets"

 

[HowlinMadMurdoc]

Neal,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I don't even claim to have the knowledge, wisdom, or experience to provide meaningful solutions - I have ideas but don't know their feasibility. You're right - local MEC's are "ALPA" for all line pilots and change only begins are the local level.

I do disagree that ALPA National should be political. Yes, they are there to represent airline pilots in our Legislative branch but it's my feeling that National has drifted too far, politically. Unfortunately, I feel that has come at the expense of building unity among the pilot groups.

Time will tell about our futures - we only hope for the best.

HMM

 

[767200]

There is a very very very simple solution to the TSA vs GoJets debate....

TSA.... STOP FLYING FOR AA!!!

Then there will be no need for GOJETS.


SO EVERYONE JUST SHUT UP AND BE DONE WITH THIS...

You CAN'T always have your CAKE and EAT it TOO!

I understand your frustration. We do not make the decision of who we fly for. BTW, YOU don't seem very bothered about Regions Air flying those J31s for AA....why? just because they are not Eagle planes or because they are "just J31s"

 

[TSA Pilot]

Now you sit here on this board and bitch that no one should go to GoJets, because they didn't have the balls to walk a picket line to get a NO ALTER EGO CLAUSE in their contract.

WE DO HAVE AN "ALTER EGO CLAUSE" IN OUR CONTRACT!!!

It states that "the company shall not create an alter-ego carrier to get around the terms of our contract" well the company is saying "we didnt create it to get around YOUR contract we did it to get around APA's contract so yours dont count. BS!! A grievance has been filed. ONE LIST!!

 

[Bankangle]

This has to be the most entertaining thread I've seen. Also sad at some of the immaturity. After seeing some of these post I doubt regional pilots will ever be able to work together to make RJ flying a better career for all it is in everyones best interest. If this thread is getting the exposure I think it is, I would recommend that some of you TSA guys not let your frustration/anger jeopardize the professional image of all RJ pilots.

 

[millhouse21]

Let me ask you this I guess....what exactly should/can National do to fix the woes of the industry? How would you do it if you were in their shoes? What are the problems of the regional jet pilot at the moment? How can National fix those problems? I have my own views on what the problems are and how to fix them but I'd like to hear some others as well.

-Neal

Well, I'm no expert but I do have an idea here. I noticed that my copmany's contract was signed by, among others, Duane Woerth. Apparently he must also approve these contracts. Has he ever declined to sign one because he thought it would be harmful to ALPA pilots as a whole? It seems to me that should be one of his primary functions; to see the big picture. Each individual MEC negotiates on it's own, but national must approve the results. I think there should be some guidelines put out by national and any contract not meeting them doesn't get signed.

Does national actually have to sign to make it legal? If so, would this work? What would the ramifications be? What happens if it ends up deadlocked because the company will not agree to the national standards? I don't know the answer to any of these questions which is why I'm asking. You asked for views so please don't flame too much.

 

[Bankangle]

I promised myself that this will be my last post on this issue.. If some of you think that any of you RJ guys have any kind of good union contract etc. etc. You are very mistaken. I have noticed that most if not all Regionals even XJT pay their copilots aprox $20/hr to start and after a couple of years they were still in the $30/hr range. I can only guess that health benefits for a guy with a family is aprox $400-500/mo. Plus dont forget the union dues. If you remind me of "oh how the senior guys make 100k+" it just shows the example of the " I got mine" or "its all about me" attitude. Please I am not bashing or trying to create a flame here. I think if ALPA and its members really gave a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**, this situation would'nt be happening. I paid my dues along time ago and it really saddens me that not much has'nt changed..except that RJs are taking over the majority of the industry and its hard to scratch out a living flying them.

 

[pianoman]

Well, I'm no expert but I do have an idea here. I noticed that my copmany's contract was signed by, among others, Duane Woerth. Apparently he must also approve these contracts. Has he ever declined to sign one because he thought it would be harmful to ALPA pilots as a whole? It seems to me that should be one of his primary functions; to see the big picture. Each individual MEC negotiates on it's own, but national must approve the results. I think there should be some guidelines put out by national and any contract not meeting them doesn't get signed.

Does national actually have to sign to make it legal? If so, would this work? What would the ramifications be? What happens if it ends up deadlocked because the company will not agree to the national standards? I don't know the answer to any of these questions which is why I'm asking. You asked for views so please don't flame too much.

I believe DW did refuse to sign a contract for CCAir a few years back. Perhaps someone else knows more about it. I agree that perhaps this would be in our best interest on the national level, but it's easy to say Nat'l ALPA should tell the carriers what to sign and what not to sign until it's your carrier and you don't agree with Nat'l. That's why they try and let individual MEC's chart their own courses most of the time.

That said I wish they would intervene a little more now and then and set some sort of national pay scale.

 

[100LL... Again!]

National pay scales will likely never work for one reason:

The guys who are making top wages will not be willing to strike over OTHER pilot's compensation.

This argument is fruitless. We do NOT really have a national union. We have dozens of individual unions loosely bound by a national organization that is strong when it wants to be, and weak when it wants to be.

 

[AviatorTx]

I think if ALPA and its members really gave a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**, this situation would'nt be happening. I paid my dues along time ago and it really saddens me that not much has'nt changed..except that RJs are taking over the majority of the industry and its hard to scratch out a living flying them.

Only a nationwide "minimum wage" per type of aircraft would solve this problem. Even then, this would ONLY work if all airlines were union, and ALL the unions agreed to meet at least the minimum wage. I'll go by a lotto ticket instead.

As long as the golden spem clubbers are lined up at the door to take the 20000 first year jobs, the rate will not go up. When, and only when the airlines cannot continue to fill the seats because of the poor pay, will you see a change. Again, I'll go buy a lotto ticket instead of waiting for this to happen.

 

[100LL... Again!]

I would never turn down anyone but a real scab.

What a little baby. I'll bet some of those guys have been ALPA for quite a while.

GO ahead and shake your tiny little fist, small man.

 

[Kaman]

Hello,
The problem is that ALPA is just as slow to react to market forces and changes in the industry as managment is. What is needed is a fundamental paradigm in shift pilot contracts and negotiations. This is going to be a painful process that take a generation or two of pilots to change. The bad news is that the change is not going to be one that is favorable to pilots from a compensation point of view. Use whatever metaphor you like i.e., "Pandora's Box is open", "Cat is out of the Bag", "Genie is out of the bottle", etc... The precedent is already set and a new generation of pilots are being weaned on the tripe the pilot training industry is selling about breaking into the airline pilot profession.
The GoJets thing is managment taking advantage of this situation, and GoJets is not going to be the first or last of this kind of thing. They know that there are plenty of pilots will line up for these, so-called "dream jobs". Pilots are individualist to begin with for the most part, it's what makes us good at "on-the-fly" decision-making. I personally don't feel animosity toward the Freedom or GoJets guys, but I am saddened and disappointed to the point of disillusionment with the entire airline flying thing.
I would never deny the jumpseat to anyone, but thats basically because we are a non-union carrier. However, I can't say I would be thrilled with letting them ride other than keeping politics out of the J/S or so I've been told by most of the pilots I've flown with. I guess this would open another argumant on the definition of a "SCAB", but I don't think that GoJets would be considered SCAB labor only because they aren't SCABS by the traditional definition, so thats where I'm coming from on the J/S. I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time.
Until ALPA's Executives grows a pair and stops pandering to the top 5% of the membership then we in the trenches will continue to find ourselves facing situations like GoJets again...

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead