Gojet Class Starts

[PCL_128]

Some of these pilots applying at Goet might have been hauling boxes when you were still in Jr. High.

What does that matter? Many of the scumbags that crossed at CAL and EAL had been paying dues for decades too. Does that make it ok? This is nothing but an attempt to break the union at TSA. No pilot should put up with crap and defend the slime that takes these jobs.

 

[100LL... Again!]

If we are talking about scabbing, then no.

If we are talking about GoJet, then Yes, because gojet is not scabbing (yet).

This is funny coming from you, being so green to the industry. When you are on your second or third furlough, you may feel differently. After all, you were a PFT'er right? It is certainly in your personality to lookout for yourself first, without regard for the ramifications.

If we are to forgive a low-time job-buyer, then we can forgive a high-timer who needs a job. Until it IS scabbing, it is NOT scabbing. And you're just too much a noob in this biz to be calling anyone a scumbag, Mr. big-shot ALPA guy. When you've been a real pilot a little longer, we can talk. I'm tempted to apply at gojet just to tick you off.

Besides, ALPA totally forgave an airline full of real scabs, so what the he11!
Let's just all get along!

 

[ILStoMinimums]

GoJets will probably get integrated into TSA eventually, just like Freedom and Mesa.

 

[PCL_128]

If we are talking about scabbing, then no.

If we are talking about GoJet, then Yes, because gojet is not scabbing (yet).

It might as well be. It's no different than Freedumb. They aren't SCABs, but they're pretty much just as bad.

This is funny coming from you, being so green to the industry. When you are on your second or third furlough, you may feel differently.

I think 5 years in the industry is enough to have an opinion on the situation. Do I need to have a 25 year pin to be able to give an opinion in your mind? I guess only the senior pilots at the majors are good enough to speak up, right?

If we are to forgive a low-time job-buyer, then we can forgive a high-timer who needs a job. Until it IS scabbing, it is NOT scabbing. And you're just too much a noob in this biz to be calling anyone a scumbag, Mr. big-shot ALPA guy. When you've been a real pilot a little longer, we can talk. I'm tempted to apply at gojet just to tick you off.

Please, go apply at GoJets so you can be blacklisted. Don't let me stop you.

There are plenty of places that high-time pilots who need jobs can go. Pinnacle, Skywest, Mesaba, Comair, ASA, Tradewinds, Capital, Kalitta, (should I go on?) are all hiring pilots into legitimate jobs. Pinnacle may suck, but coming to work here is much better than becoming a pseudo-SCAB at BloJets.

 

[100LL... Again!]

And start at the bottom after years of service?

By the way, how long have you held a 121 checkout?

 

[PCL_128]

And start at the bottom after years of service?

Where do you think they'll end up after the grievance is won and TSA integrates BloJets into their list just like Freedumb and Mesa did? They'll be right back at the bottom of the list, but they'll be stuck at TSA for the rest of their lives because they'll be blacklisted.

By the way, how long have you held a 121 checkout?

February '01.

 

[100LL... Again!]

How long since you weren't paying for it?

 

[100LL... Again!]

I really don't want to be an a-hole, especially since you are a conservative, but come on, man. Some of us those guys have been pilots for years and would like to avoid a complete start-over.

Why should they come over and be junior to a PFT'er?

 

[PCL_128]

How long since you weren't paying for it?

If you mean when did I start at some place other than GIA, then that would be May '02. Any other questions?

 

[PCL_128]

I really don't want to be an a-hole

Really? Since when? Just kidding.

Some of us those guys have been pilots for years and would like to avoid a complete start-over.

I understand that. It's terrible for a guy that's been doing this for decades to get screwed and have to start all over at the bottom. Unfortunately, that's how our system works in this industry. It's not always fair, but it's just the way it is. Trying to get around that by screwing over the TSA pilots is not the way to go.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Easy for you to say.

If they can undi a bit of the unfairness by getting a ground-level position, so what.

And like I said, ALPA forgave all kinds of REAL scabs, so what is the point?
Other than scabbing, you must look out for yourself.

You are offering nothing but a pat on the back. That doesn't go very far.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

If we are talking about scabbing, then no.

If we are talking about GoJet, then Yes, because gojet is not scabbing (yet).

This is funny coming from you, being so green to the industry. When you are on your second or third furlough, you may feel differently. After all, you were a PFT'er right? It is certainly in your personality to lookout for yourself first, without regard for the ramifications.

If we are to forgive a low-time job-buyer, then we can forgive a high-timer who needs a job. Until it IS scabbing, it is NOT scabbing. And you're just too much a noob in this biz to be calling anyone a scumbag, Mr. big-shot ALPA guy. When you've been a real pilot a little longer, we can talk. I'm tempted to apply at gojet just to tick you off.

Besides, ALPA totally forgave an airline full of real scabs, so what the he11!
Let's just all get along!

Well said.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Hey!! You're not supposed to agree with me. I'm an eeeeevil conservative.

 

[Bankangle]

100LL...Again...

Your right on..... I have seen how ALPA treats the regionals over the years. Experienced it first hand. They can careless about anyone flying at a regional/commuter. Its always as a earlier poster said.. the "I got mine" attitude.

A cohort of mine is starting class there. He is a furloughed and got the blessing from his Union to work there. If there is alot of furloughed 121 guys going there I would be carefull of threating any list.. It could back fire on you for these guys will be back at the Big Show before any TSA guys will, also they have been in this small world business alot longer.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Hey!! You're not supposed to agree with me. I'm an eeeeevil conservative.

I know....and it frightens me......but.....I agree. (hanging my head in shame )

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Your right on..... I have seen how ALPA treats the regionals over the years. Experienced it first hand. They can careless about anyone flying at a regional/commuter. Its always as a earlier poster said.. the "I got mine" attitude.

Yep, they treated us at XJT pretty bad too. We got not only the Director of Representation (the highest ranking attorney in their negotiations department) as our contract negotiator but also, for roughly 1 year, had one of the Assistant Directors with us in negotiations as well. We had all of their resources available to us and often had both the Director of Communications as well as the Assistant Director of Communications working us. When Retirement & Insurance issues arose, we had a senior R&I Specialist fly down to help us. When we dealt with Scope/Job Security issues, we had 2 more attorneys from not only ALPA's Legal Department but also from their outside retained counsel of Cohen, Weiss, and Simon, with us. When we needed money, they gave us more money for communications and negotiations. Yep...they could care less about us.

-Neal

 

[Bankangle]

Well I'm glad you are happy with them. I witnessed first hand at what happend at AirWis in the early 90s and at another regional carrier I worked for they never even showed up to talk to us and when they did they didnt even know who we were.. I would suppose that through the years they now have recognized that their biggest customer in the future are going to be RJ guys. Good Luck

 

[jehtplane]

How long since you weren't paying for it?

Paying for what? If you saying that anyone who paid for their training paid for a job than you are sadly mistaken and a moron!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[100LL... Again!]

Two shades of the same color. One is just darker.

 

[jehtplane]

Two shades of the same color. One is just darker.


Dude you are so miss informed it is scary.

 

[MINIME]

100LL...Again...


A cohort of mine is starting class there. He is a furloughed and got the blessing from his Union to work there. If there is alot of furloughed 121 guys going there I would be carefull of threating any list.. It could back fire on you for these guys will be back at the Big Show before any TSA guys will, also they have been in this small world business alot longer.

First of all, I can't imagine any union giving anyone any blessings for going to an alter ego such as GoJet and Freedom. Second, it is not just the TSA guys who are going to experience the side affects from what will be the underbidder galore of the industry. Third, don't kid yourself, at this rate these righteous 121 bigshots are not going to have any Big Shows to go back to. It'll be a minimum wage regional industry before not too long.

As for Mr. 100 LL, I shouldn't have to pay for somebody's choice to go to an airline that unfortunately furloughed him/her. I'm assumimg you've been furloughed in the past. I have, it sucks. But trying to step on other people for personal advancement just adds fuel to the fire. It is attitudes such as these, that corporate people like J.O. are counting on to spread their poison. If you need a job to pay the bills until you're recalled, look at Polar, Kalita, USA 3000 and the such. Hell, Coex is hiring. But don't contribute to lowering my wages, your wages and that of my peers around the industry by taking jobs at alter egoes.

 

[JackFlyer]

This is all ALPA fault anyways

This is all ALPA's fault anyways.... Dwyane Worth needs to get his head out of his rear! He needs to get control of this industry. I have been an ALPA member for 6+ years and in that time I have seen my union dues hard at work when:

1) Freedom Air started
2) Eagle Jets flown by TSA pilots
3) CoEx lose flying to Gulfstream
4) AWA lose 20+years of service to other LOWER wage carriers
5) Mesa whore itself out to every airline in the world
6) The largest Pension default in US history
7) USAir Pilots Flying E-170 four $60/hr
8) 400+ American Pilots as CA on RJ's when a FO with 7+yr and 5000 in type cannot be a capt.

Now you sit here on this board and bitch that no one should go to GoJets, because they didn't have the balls to walk a picket line to get a NO ALTER EGO CLAUSE in their contract.

ALPA needs to wake up!!!

TSA Pilots.... WTF... Are you guys that bitch and complain about GOJet's, the same Pilots that refuse to fly those 10 EMB-145's that have an American Eagle Registion on the door? OH WAIT I forgot....NO your still fly them!

 

[JackFlyer]

There is a very very very simple solution to the TSA vs GoJets debate....

TSA.... STOP FLYING FOR AA!!!

Then there will be no need for GOJETS.


SO EVERYONE JUST SHUT UP AND BE DONE WITH THIS...

You CAN'T always have your CAKE and EAT it TOO!

 

[PCL_128]

Yeah, because the TSA pilots really get to make the decisions as to who their airline flies for.

 

[Reebo]

There is a very very very simple solution the the TSA vs GoJets debate....

TSA.... STOP FLYING FOR AA!!!

Then there will be no need for GOJETS.


SO EVERYONE JUST SHUT UP AND BE DONE WITH THIS...

You CAN'T always have your CAKE and EAT it TOO!

i understand your frustration, but quit beating a dead horse. i have yet to meet ANY pilot who determines where aircraft are purchased from and what logo is put on the tail. good luck with your grievance against AMR.

 

[fastbird]

Somebody start the list...if they ain't paying...they ain't riding.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Well I'm glad you are happy with them. I witnessed first hand at what happend at AirWis in the early 90s and at another regional carrier I worked for they never even showed up to talk to us and when they did they didnt even know who we were.. I would suppose that through the years they now have recognized that their biggest customer in the future are going to be RJ guys. Good Luck

ALPA isn't perfect. No form of representation is perfect. Many pilots, however, have an unrealistic expectation of what ALPA (or any union) can or should do for them. Reading this thread (and the dozens of other threads that bash ALPA) is indicative of this fact. So many blames are placed in the wrong place. Lastly, too much emphasis is placed on "ALPA National" and fail to realize that they should look at their own MEC if they have issues with "ALPA."

-Neal

 

[HowlinMadMurdoc]

Lastly, too much emphasis is placed on "ALPA National" and fail to realize that they should look at their own MEC if they have issues with "ALPA."

-Neal

Neal,

I know the hard work, commitment, and sacrifice you showed during the recent negotiations at XJT. But I have to call "BS" on your comment. THE MOST effective leaders are those that lead by example. Right now, I'd question how effective ALPA National leadership is performing, at least from a regional pilots perspective.

If ALPA is going to succeed, then National is going to have to give up their "lets only protect the senior mainline guys" attitude. A good part of the issues confronting ALL airline pilots, regional and mainline, are related to poor management and vision from National. True, local MEC's are responsible for their own little world but National is still ultimately responsible for vision of where the organization is headed.

ALPA National needs to CEASE RIGHT NOW being politically motivated and return to being an Association of "unity" for ALL airline pilots. The airline industry is no longer about mainline pilots. It's about ALL of us. Senior National leadership needs to change and have more progressive and "UNITY-THINKING" pilots in charge. I can't help but think Duane and his entourage are just as guilty about self-interest as today's Airline CEO's.

I hope ALPA can change so the current situations improve. However, if ALPA continues with the status-quo, it will eventually fail.

HMM

 

[jobear]

HMM nicely said.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Neal,

I know the hard work, commitment, and sacrifice you showed during the recent negotiations at XJT. But I have to call "BS" on your comment. THE MOST effective leaders are those that lead by example. Right now, I'd question how effective ALPA National leadership is performing, at least from a regional pilots perspective.

If ALPA is going to succeed, then National is going to have to give up their "lets only protect the senior mainline guys" attitude. A good part of the issues confronting ALL airline pilots, regional and mainline, are related to poor management and vision from National. True, local MEC's are responsible for their own little world but National is still ultimately responsible for vision of where the organization is headed.

ALPA National needs to CEASE RIGHT NOW being politically motivated and return to being an Association of "unity" for ALL airline pilots. The airline industry is no longer about mainline pilots. It's about ALL of us. Senior National leadership needs to change and have more progressive and "UNITY-THINKING" pilots in charge. I can't help but think Duane and his entourage are just as guilty about self-interest as today's Airline CEO's.

I hope ALPA can change so the current situations improve. However, if ALPA continues with the status-quo, it will eventually fail.

HMM

Thank you for the kind words about our recent contract. I guess as a result of my involvement, I speak with a different perspective and viewpoint on these types of issues. You bring up some valid points but I still disagree. Pilots are the ones who ratify their own contracts. MEC's are the ones who bring those contracts to the pilot groups to vote on. National deals with issues on a National level. Things like security, pensions, bankruptcy issues, etc. How is National supposed to prevent events like Freedumb? They can't. Management will do it and National will have to react accordingly...as will the respective MEC. Some people really do have unrealistic expectations as to what National can/should accomplish. Is National some form of knight in shining armor on a white horse? Will National make some "deus ex machina" performance and save the day? No. Because it can't...and shouldn't...be expected to do that.

I think people like to cast stones at National at this point in time because they want someone to blame and National is an easy target. Frankly? I think the blame lies with the mainline MEC's years ago when they didn't draw the line on "all jet flying shall be performed by mainline" but that is neither here nor there at this point in time given the fact that the toothpaste is out of the bottle. We now exist in a world where contract carriers bid on each other's business and it sucks - for everyone (except JO).

With that said, is National perfect? Of course not. Are they politicians? Yes. That is their job. To be the airline pilot's voice on Capitol Hill. De facto, that makes them politicians. Can they do things better? You bet. We can all look in the mirror and acknowledge that there are things we can do better...whether it is flying our airplane better or running our MEC better or better informing the public about the RJ pilot's plight.

It is easy for some on here (not necessarily saying you, just generally speaking) to cast stones from the crowd and lay blame on National but who has the guts to step up and help solve the problem? I guess I don't see National being a Major Airline Pilot's Union the way some of you guys do today. Were they that way 25 years ago? Probably. The industry was different then too.

Let me ask you this I guess....what exactly should/can National do to fix the woes of the industry? How would you do it if you were in their shoes? What are the problems of the regional jet pilot at the moment? How can National fix those problems? I have my own views on what the problems are and how to fix them but I'd like to hear some others as well.

-Neal