GJET PAY vs TSA...duh!!

[Shrek]

Rekks Inbound vbmenu_register("postmenu_797586", true); -------when that happens let me be the first in line to buy you your first Jack and Coke at a place near you. We at TSA defenitely appreciate all that AWAC has done to help our effort. It will NOT be forgotten.

 

[logolight]

You must be a First Officer, because the GJ Captain scale is higher than AWAC. Yes, there is no block or better. This is the company's INITIAL OFFER. It's higher than Mesa and roughly the same as Skywest minus their work rules and soft credits. I'm sure that BOB will be negotiated into the contract when all is said and done. And we have already agreed to 11-12 days off per month (persuant to the CBA passage).

As far as being blacklisted - we have had pilots already leave to go to the best airlines hiring now, including CAL. Considering the number of furloughed mainline pilots at GJ, I think it can only help your career prospects.

AWAC has trip and duty rigs so that beats your CA's pay. And does your CBA include an agreement from managment that they will not impliment concessions without a vote from the pilot group?

I just don't get why you guys agreed to lower the standard for the industry.

 

[panamclipper]

Unfortunately, the reality of the situation is AWAC lost the flying because they were just too expensive. And they not only lost the flying to one specific airline but skywest, mesa and even transstates because they can fly the routes for less. Just look at the statistics. And now transstates is losing flying to awac because they bought into usair. You can blame everything on one airline but it just doesn't make any sense. It is airline management who is pushing for cheaper and cheaper regionals. Every regional is fighting for that business. You talk about holding the line well which pilot group is going to do that? Even if you push airline management to the limit you will be replaced by another airline. So go ahead and blame everything on one airline but that solves nothing. It is the whole situation you have to look at not just one scenario. You could blame yourselves for taking a concession, you could blame skywest for having one pay scale for the crj, you could blame transstates for signing a two year extension, you could blame mesa for taking a concessionary contract, and you could blame the majors for refusing to purchase regional jets, you could blame the major airline pilots for refusing to fly Rj's and again this solves nothing..........Labor is in a full scale run backwards, and I don't hear anyone proposing any solutions. The only thing I hear is the pilots fighting amongst themselves.

UEJ500,
Good point! And a perfect example of what G*jets 'contract' is doing to us all. The 146 payscale at AWAC is a much closer analogy, and it is LIGHT YEARS better than that other airlines' rates. Yet UAL dropped us for the mountain flying after April(yes, I know, G*jet won't be doing that flying either). But here is the point: instead of 'settling' for an industry substandard wage, we as a whole should at least be trying to maintain a higher 'bar'(I know, an over used term). But by going to that other alter-ego carrier, you have undermined everything that pilot labor groups before you have fought for.

AWAC had the industry leading contract up until October 13, 2003. That was when concessions kicked in. Why? Because we were under the (missrepresented) impression that we needed them to keep our flying for UAL.
Because of pilots who refuse to see the big picture career wise, you have done irrepairable damage to both the Trans States and AWAC pilot groups.

I will throw a party when G*jets reaps what they have sown.

Rekks

 

[fuelflow]

We haven't agreed to anything yet. Any contract changes will have to be ratified by the pilots, including concessions. Keep in mind that TSA's 2000 contract and their 2003 contract extension (which was used to capture UA flying from ACA) were NOT ratified by the pilot group, but by the MEC.

Look, I understand the position you guys are in. Just realize that the UA flying was going to TSAH whether it is being done by TSA or GJ.And the majority of your flying was given to Skywest and Mesa prior to us flying any of our 10 aircraft.

And I've yet to hide in my aircraft or walk through the terminal with my ID hidden. I'll gladly discuss our issues with anyone and won't make any effort to hide my identity.

 

[Reebo]

And I've yet to hide in my aircraft or walk through the terminal with my ID hidden. I'll gladly discuss our issues with anyone and won't make any effort to hide my identity.

Then tell us who you are. You can even send me a PM if you like.

 

[tjsatter]

won't make any effort to hide my identity.

I guess that he is the company lawyer, D.H. aka "FatBoy" since his philosophical and rhetorical style so closely matches that of also seen by one former poster on TSALounge known to be him. If he is not DH the he is surely a common bedfellow with him.

tj

 

[Shrek]

"Labor is in a full scale run backwards, and I don't hear anyone proposing any solutions. "

That is PRECISELY why the TSA pilots are fighting this alter-ego BS G j operation.

So WHO are you FUEL FLOW........you will never let us know......coward

 

[logolight]

We haven't agreed to anything yet. Any contract changes will have to be ratified by the pilots, including concessions. Keep in mind that TSA's 2000 contract and their 2003 contract extension (which was used to capture UA flying from ACA) were NOT ratified by the pilot group, but by the MEC.

Look, I understand the position you guys are in. Just realize that the UA flying was going to TSAH whether it is being done by TSA or GJ.And the majority of your flying was given to Skywest and Mesa prior to us flying any of our 10 aircraft.

And I've yet to hide in my aircraft or walk through the terminal with my ID hidden. I'll gladly discuss our issues with anyone and won't make any effort to hide my identity.

O.K. How about this idea. You tell managment in your negociations that you want the exact same pay scale and work rules as Trans States and insist there's no reason why you should be paid any less than your counter parts. Can you do that?

 

[logolight]

Unfortunately, the reality of the situation is AWAC lost the flying because they were just too expensive. And they not only lost the flying to one specific airline but skywest, mesa and even transstates because they can fly the routes for less. Just look at the statistics. And now transstates is losing flying to awac because they bought into usair. You can blame everything on one airline but it just doesn't make any sense. It is airline management who is pushing for cheaper and cheaper regionals. Every regional is fighting for that business. You talk about holding the line well which pilot group is going to do that? Even if you push airline management to the limit you will be replaced by another airline. So go ahead and blame everything on one airline but that solves nothing. It is the whole situation you have to look at not just one scenario. You could blame yourselves for taking a concession, you could blame skywest for having one pay scale for the crj, you could blame transstates for signing a two year extension, you could blame mesa for taking a concessionary contract, and you could blame the majors for refusing to purchase regional jets, you could blame the major airline pilots for refusing to fly Rj's and again this solves nothing..........Labor is in a full scale run backwards, and I don't hear anyone proposing any solutions. The only thing I hear is the pilots fighting amongst themselves.

So you're saying we lost the UAL contract because we have good pay and work rules. We're not going to fly for minimum wage. If people continue to sell themselves out then this trend will continue until we all make $7.00 per flight our only and 8 days off per month. Airlines bully express carriers as long as the express carriers let themselves get bullied. We pulled out of United because they tried to bully us into MESA type pay scales so we told them to go fark themselves and found another operation that allowed us to keep the same pay sclaes and work rules as we had with United before we left them. Now see was that so hard. If we could do it anyone can do it. The only ones who don't are the airlines and pilots who want to sell themselves out and lower the standard for everyone else in the industry.

So yes. I do blame GJ's and I do blame MESA. We're experienced pilots. Earn your pay.

 

[TSA145]

I guess that he is the company lawyer, D.H. aka "FatBoy" since his philosophical and rhetorical style so closely matches that of also seen by one former poster on TSALounge known to be him. If he is not DH the he is surely a common bedfellow with him.

tj

Hey, TJ it's not "Fatboy" it's "FAT BASTARD" :cartman:

 

[tjsatter]

Hey, TJ it's not "Fatboy" it's "FAT BASTARD" :cartman:

I stand corrected, you are of course correct

 

[Rekks Inbound]

Fuelflow,
Yes, you are right on one point, and that is that we do have the most expensive contract.

But here is how you solve the issue. And this goes for ANY pilot group. Grow a backbone. When your next negotiations come up, the company will put some really low-ball bullsh!t piece of paper in front of you. And here is how you counter: When you stop laughing, then put AWAC's Contract 1999 down in front of them. And tell them that under no uncertain terms will you as a group accept anything less. They'll threaten that they can't afford it(don't worry, they CAN afford it, they just don't want to), and that other carriers will steal all of your flying. I know that some of your low-timer SJS types will buy into that but be strong, and hold your ground. We did, and they did sign.

That is how you bring this industry back up.

Not what you guys at GJ are doing.

Scum.

Sincerely,
Rekks

 

[redbook]

I guess that he is the company lawyer, D.H. aka "FatBoy" since his philosophical and rhetorical style so closely matches that of also seen by one former poster on TSALounge known to be him. If he is not DH the he is surely a common bedfellow with him.

tj

there are basically a few g0jet scumbags who post on here, and a few morons who want to stir the pot; otherwise overwhelmingly this board reflects the rest of the industry's distaste of dirtbag jet. King Kong 2 is one of the morons that went over; Dan is panicking. Fuelflow, I have to disagree, TJ, is not Fat Bastard. The rhetorical style is MUCH different. His first name is probably Dave though, but not Dave H, but Dave T. Trying to sound moderate and thoughtful but saying idiotic, contradictory things, like " I don't care who does the flying, I just want it done at a fair payscale".
This from a guy who is quoted in the newspaper as saying that Alpa is driving down G0jet wages!!The whole world knows that g0jet was created to drive down the wages and work rules at tsa. Just like the his buddy fat bastard, Dave T will tell you black is white and white is black. Dave, you are just as screwed as your buddy Dan K, and this why nobody wanted you to be MEC chairman. Since you couldn't become MEC chairmen you decided to become a flight manager; then that wasn't enough, so you decided to screw your fellow pilots over and become one of the first four pilots at G0jet. You are an idiot, a hypocrite, and a liar. I don't think you want to show your face in a bar in STL.

 

[fuelflow]

Nice tj and redbook -

Nice try on both counts. If anyone disagrees with your status quo they MUST be management. And don't make any industry assumptions, as most pilots don't wish to partake in your civil war. DK doesn't even work at GJ anymore. I don't speak for GJ, the IBT, King Kong or anyone else posting here. If you have problems with any of my posts, address them specifically.

 

[210FR8DOG]

Nice tj and redbook -

Nice try on both counts. If anyone disagrees with your status quo they MUST be management. And don't make any industry assumptions, as most pilots don't wish to partake in your civil war. DK doesn't even work at GJ anymore. I don't speak for GJ, the IBT, King Kong or anyone else posting here. If you have problems with any of my posts, address them specifically.

Fine spermflow, answer this one question and DON'T DODGE IT. How can you justify flying a 70 seater for a dollar more an hour than TSA and AWAC 50 SEAT PAY and deny that you are dragging down the whole industry? Your a cancer on 3 levels.

You've taken money out of my pocket, ditto any pilot at Trans States airlines who is a fairly senior FO waiting for their RIGHTFUL time to upgrade, and you've taken money out of the pocket of every regional airline pilot who will be negotiating a contract in the next decade by bringing down the industry average for everyone.

 

[Tarzan]

And don't make any industry assumptions, as most pilots don't wish to partake in your civil war.

I wouldn't make comments like that either except if it makes you feel better. It appears that more pilots do support TSA and have a certain disdain for G0Jets. But hey, it's okay though. It's all about that quick upgrade even if you have to crawl over your buddy's paycheck to do it. I don't care for it but I don't hate any of you guys either. There are always circumstances that I don't see, but I still can't excuse it either.

Heres what should worry you though. If the company had offered a staple and no furlough protection, they probably could have gotten that four year or even a five year extention. There are some fairly upset folks that will hose themselves just to hose you guys worse. That would be my biggest concern right now. And if you really think the company wouldn't do it because they promised.... It wouldn't be the first any company has renigged on a promise to workers to better their position economically.

 

[logolight]

O.K. How about this idea. You tell managment in your negociations that you want the exact same pay scale and work rules as Trans States and insist there's no reason why you should be paid any less than your counter parts. Can you do that?

fuelflow, I'm still waiting for you to answer my above question. Can you tell your managment that you will work for no less than your counter parts at Trans States?

 

[redbook]

Nice tj and redbook -

Nice try on both counts. If anyone disagrees with your status quo they MUST be management. And don't make any industry assumptions, as most pilots don't wish to partake in your civil war. DK doesn't even work at GJ anymore. I don't speak for GJ, the IBT, King Kong or anyone else posting here. If you have problems with any of my posts, address them specifically.

We have been over this a thousand times in the last year with you. We make a point about tsa having a normal growth opportunity, and then it being yanked away and staffed with turncoats and opportunist scumbags like yourself; you respond with attacking the mec, alpa national, eagle pilots, twa vs amr, chq vs cmr, and any other issue in aviation. Our points are clear; the industry knows who is who. You are the enemy of every professional pilot trying to make a career in this industry. Keep it up, we will be here to engage you for as long as it takes.

 

[fuelflow]

Absolutely. My feeling is that GJ will accept no less, if not more. Our committee said the company already offered us the proposal given to the TSA pilots (plus our scheduling enhancements), and was rejected out of hand.

I don't see us keeping TSA's 1% matching and $400+ med/dental plan, to name a few. Considering the number of furloughed mainline and retired military pilots here, I doubt anyone will have trouble walking away from this job if we don't get what we want. We have the leverage to negotiate, and are not hampered by the APA scope and a compromised MEC.

So, to answer your question Rekks, the answer is yes. And I think our pilots and our union think likewise.

 

[fuelflow]

Absolutely. My feeling is that GJ will accept no less, if not more. Our committee said the company already offered us the proposal given to the TSA pilots (plus our scheduling enhancements), and was rejected out of hand.

I don't see us keeping TSA's 1% matching and $400+ med/dental plan, to name a few. Considering the number of furloughed mainline and retired military pilots here, I doubt anyone will have trouble walking away from this job if we don't get what we want. We have the leverage to negotiate, and are not hampered by the APA scope and a compromised MEC.

So, to answer your question Rekks, the answer is yes. And I think our pilots and our union think likewise.