GJ Hiring Captains and fo's

[SkyBoy1981]

Republic is a whole 'nother story.....the U pilots lost out on that deal as well. U management took the pilot pension, took the savings/cash left over and bought a ton of new RJ's, CRJ's and EMB-170's and then gave them away to other carriers. I hope the PSA and Republic pilots like flying my pension.A350

Wow, thats really a shame.

 

[theo]

Theo the only person that is misguided is you.

The reality of the situation is that ALPA and the TSA pilots do not believe *************************s is just another regional.

The reality is ************************* pilots still work for HK and TSA. Your quality of life will never get better because of who you work for. When are you going to realize that TSA is near the bottum of the list of good places to work, and you and all the other ************************* pilots are being used as tools to make our life worse not better. Let us review the "reflection of the times" at TSA, shall we. According to TSA's DOT filling last year we cleared about 27 million and according to a leading STL newspaper *************************s will make money in the first year. Mcdonalds franchises don't even turn a profit for 2 to 3 years. Think about it.

For you to ass u me that *************************s is just another regional and that your quality of life will improve, is both sophmoric and niave.

I agree that TSA pilots don't view Go Jet as just another airline. You guys wanted that flying and did'nt get it. Of course you are upset. The problem is your upset at the wrong people. Don't be mad at the competitor who beat you, be mad at the guys who did'nt secure that for you when they had the chance...your MEC. You continue to blame the wrong people.

As for ALPA the facts don't agree with your assertion that ALPA has a problem with Go Jet. If they did where are the public statements condeming them, where is the call for a hiring ban? Why isn't there something in the ALPA magazine asking all pilots to do their best to discourage people from going to Go Jet? There isn't because they know there is no reason to do it. This was a battle that the local MEC could have won but failed miserably in their efforts to do so. The national people know you can't protect from poor local leadership.

As for Go Jet quality of life...I can only defer to the guys who actually fly there. I don't hear them complaining about life there. The only ones who keep saying how bad it is there are the guys who wanted the flying and did'nt get it or the other misguided zealots that jump on every silly bandwagon that comes along.

 

[cocknbull]

theo

TSA pilots had already agreed to get this flying in 2000; Industry average pay and no alter ego airline. It is management who has has decided not to honor or CBA. You act as if you WON the flying and we were out done by better competition. You are a childish clown. If you think of this interms of winning, you are a member of a week and unhonorable team who was handed the trophy after not even playing in the game.

Yes my anger is with TSA management and not the pilots of *************************. However I think of any pilot at ************************* as a selfish spineless whore willing to destroy their own good name for an easy upgrade or seniority. As a result I have no respect for any pilot at *************************s.

Discussing this matter with you is pointless. You are so self obsorbed that your mind will not allow you to see the complexity of this issue.

ALPA in public and in its magazine has said that alter ego carriers like *************************s pose a direct threat on the well being of the airline pilot profession. And while you theo are not *************************s you are a pilot contributing to the disease. Your are just as bad.

 

[AAflyer]

...and it would have been nice if AA pilots would have stood firm on this issue instead of taking "bribe" money for continued violation. This very issue is proof that everything at mainline is for sale when it comes down to it.

yes I agree, many of us would have like that, however how would you have fought it? We could have done another sick out which cost us 45 million. We could take it to court and an arbitrator, who would have said "yes they are violating your scope clause. but are doing more damage to UAL pilots since that is the color of the jets being flown. We were told it was a lost cause, and that they would simply shift flying to Republic to circumnavigate or scope clause. WHich is what happened. The changing of certificates to bypass scope clauses so new pilots can fly those 70 seat jets.

No, I don't have much sympathy for TSA and what Go Jets is doing, if TSA pilots could fly a 70-90 seat jet to replace me they would do it in a heartbeat. As one TSA captain told me, it is just economics, nothing personal. It looks like he is reeping it now.

AA

 

[A350]

SkyBoy:

It is a shame....it is also business.

Blame is a terrible thing......when you point the finger at someone, there are three pointing back at you.

If you think that Freedom and G0Jets were bad, wait until NEWCO gets up and running. There just is no defense for this stuff right now. Even a strike by the NWA pilots will not stop it. Leaving the cockpit at NWA just invites someone else to step in. Staying and flying is the only way.

A350

 

[theo]

theo

TSA pilots had already agreed to get this flying in 2000; Industry average pay and no alter ego airline. It is management who has has decided not to honor or CBA. You act as if you WON the flying and we were out done by better competition. You are a childish clown. If you think of this interms of winning, you are a member of a week and unhonorable team who was handed the trophy after not even playing in the game.

Yes my anger is with TSA management and not the pilots of *************************. However I think of any pilot at ************************* as a selfish spineless whore willing to destroy their own good name for an easy upgrade or seniority. As a result I have no respect for any pilot at *************************s.

Discussing this matter with you is pointless. You are so self obsorbed that your mind will not allow you to see the complexity of this issue.

ALPA in public and in its magazine has said that alter ego carriers like *************************s pose a direct threat on the well being of the airline pilot profession. And while you theo are not *************************s you are a pilot contributing to the disease. Your are just as bad.

Sorry dude but your comments just prompt more questions. If TSA management is not honoring your CBA, then where is the grevience? If one is filed have you asked for an expedited hearing? When will it be heard?

Based upon info I have seen posted here and not refuted by anyone. Your CBA had no agreement with the Holding company that started Go Jet you had no right to the flying because your MEC failed to negotiate for that flying. The company just did what every other company would do in that situation, they took advantage of that. Buisness is buisness....learn from your mistakes but quit holding eveyone else responsible for them.

Obviously pilots that have gone to Go Jet have got on your bad side...no doubt about it, you don't respect or like them. My point in responding is that you are not the representative for most pilots. I believe most pilots look at Go Jet as just another Regional. I represent that viewpoint. Again it is ony the TSA pilots and the zealots who feel the way you do, not most pilots.

 

[POKEY]

The problem I have is that there was no reason to create a seperate pilot group for GJ in the first place. In the beginning, Mgt told us that they had to keep pilot groups seperate for legal reasons, then they later offered us the flying with the LOA. I still have not heard a good explanation for this other than the obvious whipsaw opportunity for TSA Mgt.

 

[theo]

The problem I have is that there was no reason to create a seperate pilot group for GJ in the first place. In the beginning, Mgt told us that they had to keep pilot groups seperate for legal reasons, then they later offered us the flying with the LOA. I still have not heard a good explanation for this other than the obvious whipsaw opportunity for TSA Mgt.

But didnt you reject their offer to give you the flying?

 

[incubus]

don't get off point, theo.

 

[h25b]

In the beginning, Mgt told us...

And you believed them ????

 

[Smarta$$]

SkyBoy:

It is a shame....it is also business.

Blame is a terrible thing......when you point the finger at someone, there are three pointing back at you.

If you think that Freedom and G0Jets were bad, wait until NEWCO gets up and running. There just is no defense for this stuff right now. Even a strike by the NWA pilots will not stop it. Leaving the cockpit at NWA just invites someone else to step in. Staying and flying is the only way.

A350

So Gayjets is just fine with you, but NEWCO is pure evil? What a dipsh!t!

As stated before, the problem is not that they are on a seperate certificate. Trans states Holdings did not have to use a different senority list for the new company. They could have and should have used TSA pilots for this company.

As for gayjet pilots, if they needed a job in STL why not work for TSA instead? Why take this job and help TSAH give thier current pilots the shaft in the A$$

Knowing that the company should have used the existing TSA pilots to staff the new certificate, how can you defend gayjets or the pilots that took the job instead of just going to TSA?

 

[A350]

Smarta$$:

Your name says a lot.....

Re-read the post. In fact, re-read all my posts. G0Jets, Freedom, and yes, even NEWCO are all fine with me. It's called business. This business is this way and there is no stopping this craziness. Mangement is faster at finding chinks in the armor of the carefully designed ALPA shield.

I think the pilots need to stop this with a unilateral action. ALPA will never put their carefully padded bank accounts on the line....they would rather the mainline guys lose their jobs as long as a regional pilot will pay some dues....after all some dues is better than none. Now we will have pilots fighting for the scraps left in the industry and ALPA only cares that they represent you...(in other words) collect dues.

But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where this is headed. The USAirways guys allowed a NEWCO, why do you see the NWA guys as being able to stop it? Wake up. If the NWA guys don't get the NEWCO planes and flying, and scope it off being sold, it WILL be sold just like the MDA deal at USAir. Mangement uses the tools available to them. That is what TSAH is doing right now. Further, TSAH management knows there is a large supply of eligible experienced pilots to choose from, and they know there is a never ending supply of newbies who will fly anything for money. They are staffing the G0Jets certificate with separate pilot lists to combat the only weapon you have....which is staffing the G0Jets list with current TSA pilots and then using the parking brake and the logbook to make them pay attention.

The only defense to this is a complete SOS....which we all know will NEVER occur.

This is the airline business right now. If you don't like, maybe you can find another line of work. There are corporate gigs and charter gigs that pay well. Hell, if I had to do it over, I would have been an air traffic controller.


A350

 

[DoinTime]

Smarta$$:

Your name says a lot.....

Re-read the post. In fact, re-read all my posts. G0Jets, Freedom, and yes, even NEWCO are all fine with me. It's called business. This business is this way and there is no stopping this craziness. Mangement is faster at finding chinks in the armor of the carefully designed ALPA shield.

I think the pilots need to stop this with a unilateral action. ALPA will never put their carefully padded bank accounts on the line....they would rather the mainline guys lose their jobs as long as a regional pilot will pay some dues....after all some dues is better than none. Now we will have pilots fighting for the scraps left in the industry and ALPA only cares that they represent you...(in other words) collect dues.

But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where this is headed. The USAirways guys allowed a NEWCO, why do you see the NWA guys as being able to stop it? Wake up. If the NWA guys don't get the NEWCO planes and flying, and scope it off being sold, it WILL be sold just like the MDA deal at USAir. Mangement uses the tools available to them. That is what TSAH is doing right now. Further, TSAH management knows there is a large supply of eligible experienced pilots to choose from, and they know there is a never ending supply of newbies who will fly anything for money. They are staffing the G0Jets certificate with separate pilot lists to combat the only weapon you have....which is staffing the G0Jets list with current TSA pilots and then using the parking brake and the logbook to make them pay attention.

The only defense to this is a complete SOS....which we all know will NEVER occur.

This is the airline business right now. If you don't like, maybe you can find another line of work. There are corporate gigs and charter gigs that pay well. Hell, if I had to do it over, I would have been an air traffic controller.


A350

Your veiw of this industry is very dim indeed.

 

[cocknbull]

Theo

Obviously pilots that have gone to Go Jet have got on your bad side...no doubt about it, you don't respect or like them. My point in responding is that you are not the representative for most pilots. I believe most pilots look at Go Jet as just another Regional. I represent that viewpoint. Again it is ony the TSA pilots and the zealots who feel the way you do, not most pilots.

You don't get out much do you? Fabrication, rhetoric, and ill-informed are the words MOST piots would use to describe you and *************************s. Come out of your shell and wake up. The only people who subscribe to your way of thinking is the brain washed ************************* pilots and a few who find super seniority and a quick upgrade attractive. The ignorant CFI and the bitter ex mainliners that have gone there have tried to change the opinions of the masses with their; "It's only business", " I'm just doing to the regionals what they did to me","seperate HOLDING Company".BS. It is not working. Need I remind you that the pilots representing the following companies have pledged their support:

1. UAL-The pilots who rightfully should be flying these planes and would be if it were ALPA,

2. Comair,
3. Eagle,
4. FedEx
5. ExpressJet
6. Mesaba
7. Air Wisconsin
8. US Air
9. Many others

That is hardly the few misguided TSA pilots and Zealots you refer to every post you have.

I'm glad 100 pilots and a few upset tool wanna bes have your back. Good Luck with that.

 

[A350]

DoinTime:

20 years bustin your arse doing this will do that to you.

The experience has been a good ride....getting better all the time. The pay and bennies ain't what it used to be, but it beats digging a ditch.

I think pilots are underpaid and underappreciated, by every standard. But I have no answer for what is happening in today's business. Without a complete SOS, the government is not going to take notice and in today's big business, winner take all society, I choose to consider the glass half full.

A350

 

[FlyHIToo]

Need I remind you that the pilots representing the following companies have pledged their support:

1. UAL-The pilots who rightfully should be flying these planes and would be if it were ALPA,

2. Comair,
3. Eagle,
4. FedEx
5. ExpressJet
6. Mesaba
7. Air Wisconsin
8. US Air
9. Many others

That is hardly the few misguided TSA pilots and Zealots you refer to every post you have.

Come on.... So a pilot shows up at your rally, because he is an MEC officer, and Worth told him too, that makes a pledge of support?

UAL has a jumpseat and J4J aggrement with GJ.
USAir MEC told their furloughed pilots to go work at GJ.
Eagle, many of whom jumpseat on GJ from ORD and STL say screw TSA they screwed me.

By the way.... Have your heard from ALPA since they came to STL and kicked the hornets nest at that rally?

No.... Because they now know it is a lost cause and want the GJ pilots to organize under ALPA.... 2% talks. The NMB showed GJ is not even an alter-ego, They sited the CCAir MESA and Freedom ruling in their final ruling. Stating that "...there are no other similarities to the facts in the MESA Airlines, Inc., above, decision."
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2006/33n009.pdf page38


Look at the people that have posted here. TSA pilots are against GJ.

Do you think these same pilots that post here from TSA will refuse to fly the 69 XJT planes or routes that TSA will most likely bid on in the near future?

 

[Smarta$$]

Smarta$$:

Your name says a lot.....

Re-read the post. In fact, re-read all my posts. G0Jets, Freedom, and yes, even NEWCO are all fine with me. It's called business. This business is this way and there is no stopping this craziness. Mangement is faster at finding chinks in the armor of the carefully designed ALPA shield.

I think the pilots need to stop this with a unilateral action. ALPA will never put their carefully padded bank accounts on the line....they would rather the mainline guys lose their jobs as long as a regional pilot will pay some dues....after all some dues is better than none. Now we will have pilots fighting for the scraps left in the industry and ALPA only cares that they represent you...(in other words) collect dues.

But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where this is headed. The USAirways guys allowed a NEWCO, why do you see the NWA guys as being able to stop it? Wake up. If the NWA guys don't get the NEWCO planes and flying, and scope it off being sold, it WILL be sold just like the MDA deal at USAir. Mangement uses the tools available to them. That is what TSAH is doing right now. Further, TSAH management knows there is a large supply of eligible experienced pilots to choose from, and they know there is a never ending supply of newbies who will fly anything for money. They are staffing the G0Jets certificate with separate pilot lists to combat the only weapon you have....which is staffing the G0Jets list with current TSA pilots and then using the parking brake and the logbook to make them pay attention.

The only defense to this is a complete SOS....which we all know will NEVER occur.

This is the airline business right now. If you don't like, maybe you can find another line of work. There are corporate gigs and charter gigs that pay well. Hell, if I had to do it over, I would have been an air traffic controller.


A350

So if you cant beat em join em ahh? So we should just except these things and not even have a dialog about how to improve things or who is causing the problem.

Tell me, why is it that you are so willing to except these things? Why do you take it upon yourself to speakout against those that want things to be right?

What is your motivation for this?

 

[h25b]

Tell me, why is it that you are so willing to except these things? Why do you take it upon yourself to speakout against those that want things to be right?

What is your motivation for this?

What's the motivation ??? There is none. This isn't about what's right or wrong. It's about the way things are. IT'S CALLED REALITY !!! Deal with it.

You're right, it is wrong and it does suck. But it is legal. And as such we have yet another regional airline.

 

[Smarta$$]

What's the motivation ??? There is none. This isn't about what's right or wrong. It's about the way things are. IT'S CALLED REALITY !!! Deal with it.

You're right, it is wrong and it does suck. But it is legal. And as such we have yet another regional airline.

So if it is wrong and it does suck,(which we totally agree) then lets all take some steps to rectify the situation. Can you see the benifit to having one pilot list from the standpoint of negotiations and whipsawing? ofcourse you can. So work from within and get both groups on one list.

 

[h25b]

So if it is wrong and it does suck,(which we totally agree) then lets all take some steps to rectify the situation. Can you see the benifit to having one pilot list from the standpoint of negotiations and whipsawing? ofcourse you can. So work from within and get both groups on one list.

I agree.. But that horse has left the barn months ago...