general mills

[rufus]

I have a friend in msp who says his friend just got a job at general mills starting pay or 150k. I call B.S. on this. Can anyone help me out. The guy also was just a regional pilot for Mesaba

 

[TMMT]

If they're still flying Citation X's then yes that pay is a wee bit high for a newbie right seater...

 

[sydeseet]

I call major Horse S&%t on $150K to start in the X. Even as a street captain, which I doubt is the case, I can't imagine $150K in the door on a X. On a G550 maybe, but not on a X.

 

[K.V.]

I'd be throwing down the bull$hit card rufus

 

[Jetdriver69]

Good luck getting that on the Gulfstream too. It ain't happening at my house, especially for a new hire! I'd raise the BS flag big time on that one.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Thats a very reasonable number for someone with experience that walks in as a PIC....but maybe a tad high for an F/O (good for him if true)

After doing interviews for a few years at a previous company I have learned that real world pay numbers differ from Internet numbers by about 20%.

150K is very average on a GV/Global with some time and experience, but sounds kinda high for a newhire FO from a regional.

Some also look at the number thier company may throw at them - bonus, benefits, stock etc...all BS....try and buy groceries or pay your mortgage with stock options..

FWIW most newhires I have seen in these types started at around 125K plus bonus (varied greatly) - but again these days bonuses should NOT be added in the figure.

Also, pay does not usually differ by type if a company operates more than one...

 

[semperfido]

concur

 

[AbOvo]

I can't remember is the X considered a Heavy Jet by corporate pay standards? I know the 604 is considered Heavy, would $125K plus bonus be normal for a non-typed PIC?

 

[semperfido]

I can't remember is the X considered a Heavy Jet by corporate pay standards? I know the 604 is considered Heavy, would $125K plus bonus be normal for a non-typed PIC?

Maybe I am out of the loop BUT,
what is a non typed PIC? no such animal in my world.

Citation X? uh no

 

[LRplt]

I personally find that a little hard to believe since 3M (Minnesota based as well) from what I have heard starts people out at 100k on a GV. I sincerely doubt General Mills would be paying that for a X, but of course my assumptions could be way off. If it is true then I am thrilled to hear a little bit of good news from the Corporate world.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

WTF is a non-typed PIC?

 

[TMMT]

No such creature in the jet world.

 

[flyzimex]

I actually know this individual, and I can tell you guys it's true. He's a very straight shooting and respectable guy and would have no reason to lie, he actually seemed a bit embarrassed to tell me. When he was asked to submit an expected salary during the hiring process he put a number a LOT less than they came back with, and he was in shock when he saw what they would actually offer him.

He's an ex 717 FO.

 

[Peardc10]

Pay

I worked with a guy at General Mills and he started out above 100k, but had a great overall pay package, with insurance, 401K match, profit sharing, etc. etc.

He was typed in the X, and had a lot of PIC hours and international experience.
I would believe the overall package could total 150K.

Good for Him!

 

[AbOvo]

Sorry ladies, here's what I mean by non-typed PIC....An individual applying for the job has plenty of experience but is not typed on the aircraft on property, the pilot will have to go through training for a type rating.

 

[semperfido]

Ok, I understand now. Many places will pay someone less to start if they don't have a rating and experience in that particular plane. They won't care that you have 10,000 PIC hrs in a DC9.

 

[AbOvo]

Yeah I figured as much seeing that school is a pretty big investment.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Yeah I figured as much seeing that school is a pretty big investment.

Any outfit that pays you less because they have to send you to school is rather questionable.....same thing goes for only hiring typed guys - makes sense...skip over quality people to avoid a school bill...

Suppose you were a DA2000 captain and needed a DA900ex intitial...you should start at less money than someone with some time in a 900ex? - thats a good way to create a revolving door of pilots!

School is part of doing business, not a perk.

Rant over!

 

[semperfido]

yes, that's true too. Every place is different. Just sayin

 

[Gulfstream 200]

yes, that's true too. Every place is different. Just sayin

Yup.....flight departments aren't always known to make smart decisions....it is what it is.

These days my job is much easier...I just smile at the boss, say bye, and go home..

 

[semperfido]

it's nice isn't it?

 

[Gulfstream 200]

it's nice isn't it?

More than I ever imagined.

:laugh:

 

[AbOvo]

I know it's getting OT but if we're talking about a Fortune 100 company you would be looking for a compensation package at least mid range to start?

 

[semperfido]

Can you get some intel from them or someone else on the range they have in mind? Historical data? Lacking that, I would most definitely go for something north of mid range. Probably 85% of top, as you can always go down. Particularly if you have a lot of transferrable experience. There are many unknowns.

 

[Fly Astar Jets]

I know it's getting OT but if we're talking about a Fortune 100 company you would be looking for a compensation package at least mid range to start?

AbOvo,
If you don't mind me asking, what is "mid range" in $$ for a Fortune 100 company? Semperfido referred to "top end". Do you know what figure in $$ he is referring to?

Please excuse the thread creep, but I've been trying to get a handle on Corp. pay rates and keep coming up bubkis. Is there an online source that I'm missing?

TIA, FAJ

 

[G4G5]

Overall compensation is another negotiating point.

I have gotten within a couple of grand of where I wanted to be when I felt as if they would not come up. Then I hit them with" I see you start everyone with 2 weeks of vacation, my family is important to me, currently I am getting X, if you can match that I think that we have deal"

Hypothetically, if you are making $100K that's $2k a week. Getting another week or two of vacation equates to another $2-4K

I have had flt department managers just OK it on the spot and others have run it through HR. This tactic has never let me down.

 

[BoilerUP]

AbOvo,
If you don't mind me asking, what is "mid range" in $$ for a Fortune 100 company? Semperfido referred to "top end". Do you know what figure in $$ he is referring to?

Please excuse the thread creep, but I've been trying to get a handle on Corp. pay rates and keep coming up bubkis. Is there an online source that I'm missing?

TIA, FAJ

I don't work for a F100 company...but let me take a stab at it.

Bizav compensation is highly variable based on location & equipment types. Somebody flying a Lear or a Hawker for a midwestern-based company isn't likely to make as much as somebody flying a large-cabin Gulfstream or GLEX out of the NYC area. Even in similar types, its not unexpected for somebody in a lower cost-of-living area to receive less salary than somebody in an expensive area like SanFran or the NE corridor.

NBAA and Stanton both put out compensation surveys that are typically given more weight than those from places like Professional Pilot magazine or Avcrew.com, based on gross weight (NBAA) or type (Stanton). Of course to see the NBAA or Stanton surveys you either need to participate in them or spend the $$$ to buy them...

As an example:

2009 NBAA Salary Survey:
(National Average, Part 91 only)

Captain - Jet III (20k < 45k lbs)
Base Salary
Average: $98,204
Median: $96,000
25% Quartile: $85,250
75% Quartile: $109,438


Captain - Jet IV (45k < 80k lbs)
Base Salary
Average: $118,818
Median: $115,500
25% Quartile: $102,000
75% Quartile: $135,000

Jet III would cover a large number midsize and super-midsize types by weight including as small as the Citation XLS up to the Challenger 3000 and Falcon 2000EASy.

Jet IV covers larger aircraft, from the Challenger 604 up into Gulfstreams, Globals, and large 3-hole Falcons.

In the end, however, you're always worth what you negotiate...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Also, watch for the "its cheap to live here compared to NY" excuse...no metro areas are inexpensive if you want to live in the nice neighborhoods (of course you do)

I have heard Chicago based Falcon and Gulfstream pilots justify a sub 100K salary because "its cheaper in the Midwest"



Unfortunately, at a large Fortune xx company you wont have much control over your starting salary. From my previous experience and knowing many in other outfits, there is usually there is a small salary window for a given position. Where they often make up for it is in bonus, stock, etc....total wildcard these days. 115-130K seemed like a common starting number, with typical line guys in the 135-150K range. Ones with extra duties saw more. I thought this was slightly low but there is lots to be considered including QOL, benefits, etc. QOL rules over money for me, YMMV.

Smaller outfits give you much more negotiating power - especially if you come in with solid experience and your attitude etc shows that you can be a quick turnkey PIC for the operation. Here is where you need to negotiate, and pilots are often terrible negotiators.

Good Luck

 

[Fly Astar Jets]

Thanks Peeps,

FAJ

 

[BoilerUP]

...not worth it...