general mills

[semperfido]

it's nice isn't it?

 

[Gulfstream 200]

it's nice isn't it?

More than I ever imagined.

:laugh:

 

[AbOvo]

I know it's getting OT but if we're talking about a Fortune 100 company you would be looking for a compensation package at least mid range to start?

 

[semperfido]

Can you get some intel from them or someone else on the range they have in mind? Historical data? Lacking that, I would most definitely go for something north of mid range. Probably 85% of top, as you can always go down. Particularly if you have a lot of transferrable experience. There are many unknowns.

 

[Fly Astar Jets]

I know it's getting OT but if we're talking about a Fortune 100 company you would be looking for a compensation package at least mid range to start?

AbOvo,
If you don't mind me asking, what is "mid range" in $$ for a Fortune 100 company? Semperfido referred to "top end". Do you know what figure in $$ he is referring to?

Please excuse the thread creep, but I've been trying to get a handle on Corp. pay rates and keep coming up bubkis. Is there an online source that I'm missing?

TIA, FAJ

 

[G4G5]

Overall compensation is another negotiating point.

I have gotten within a couple of grand of where I wanted to be when I felt as if they would not come up. Then I hit them with" I see you start everyone with 2 weeks of vacation, my family is important to me, currently I am getting X, if you can match that I think that we have deal"

Hypothetically, if you are making $100K that's $2k a week. Getting another week or two of vacation equates to another $2-4K

I have had flt department managers just OK it on the spot and others have run it through HR. This tactic has never let me down.

 

[BoilerUP]

AbOvo,
If you don't mind me asking, what is "mid range" in $$ for a Fortune 100 company? Semperfido referred to "top end". Do you know what figure in $$ he is referring to?

Please excuse the thread creep, but I've been trying to get a handle on Corp. pay rates and keep coming up bubkis. Is there an online source that I'm missing?

TIA, FAJ

I don't work for a F100 company...but let me take a stab at it.

Bizav compensation is highly variable based on location & equipment types. Somebody flying a Lear or a Hawker for a midwestern-based company isn't likely to make as much as somebody flying a large-cabin Gulfstream or GLEX out of the NYC area. Even in similar types, its not unexpected for somebody in a lower cost-of-living area to receive less salary than somebody in an expensive area like SanFran or the NE corridor.

NBAA and Stanton both put out compensation surveys that are typically given more weight than those from places like Professional Pilot magazine or Avcrew.com, based on gross weight (NBAA) or type (Stanton). Of course to see the NBAA or Stanton surveys you either need to participate in them or spend the $$$ to buy them...

As an example:

2009 NBAA Salary Survey:
(National Average, Part 91 only)

Captain - Jet III (20k < 45k lbs)
Base Salary
Average: $98,204
Median: $96,000
25% Quartile: $85,250
75% Quartile: $109,438


Captain - Jet IV (45k < 80k lbs)
Base Salary
Average: $118,818
Median: $115,500
25% Quartile: $102,000
75% Quartile: $135,000

Jet III would cover a large number midsize and super-midsize types by weight including as small as the Citation XLS up to the Challenger 3000 and Falcon 2000EASy.

Jet IV covers larger aircraft, from the Challenger 604 up into Gulfstreams, Globals, and large 3-hole Falcons.

In the end, however, you're always worth what you negotiate...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Also, watch for the "its cheap to live here compared to NY" excuse...no metro areas are inexpensive if you want to live in the nice neighborhoods (of course you do)

I have heard Chicago based Falcon and Gulfstream pilots justify a sub 100K salary because "its cheaper in the Midwest"



Unfortunately, at a large Fortune xx company you wont have much control over your starting salary. From my previous experience and knowing many in other outfits, there is usually there is a small salary window for a given position. Where they often make up for it is in bonus, stock, etc....total wildcard these days. 115-130K seemed like a common starting number, with typical line guys in the 135-150K range. Ones with extra duties saw more. I thought this was slightly low but there is lots to be considered including QOL, benefits, etc. QOL rules over money for me, YMMV.

Smaller outfits give you much more negotiating power - especially if you come in with solid experience and your attitude etc shows that you can be a quick turnkey PIC for the operation. Here is where you need to negotiate, and pilots are often terrible negotiators.

Good Luck

 

[Fly Astar Jets]

Thanks Peeps,

FAJ

 

[BoilerUP]

...not worth it...

 

[Fly Astar Jets]

BoilerUP,

I appreciate the effort on your part and others that have replied.

I have a way, waaaay outside shot at a Fortune 100 company and if I'm lucky enough to be called in I would like to at least be prepared enough so as not to look to stupid :blush:

Thanks again.

FAJ

 

[Cat3C]

I have heard Chicago based Falcon and Gulfstream pilots justify a sub 100K salary because "its cheaper in the Midwest"

I think that is far from the norm in Chicago and if so probably not for a Fortune 100.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I think that is far from the norm in Chicago and if so probably not for a Fortune 100.

I agree far from the norm, but 100% true....and yes was a Fortune XXX company.

My only point was that pilots/departments often justify low pay for ridiculous reasons.

I really don't care what salary one chooses to work for, people have many different reasons for staying in a job. I also agree money is not the most important....but COL is very similar in most large metro areas.

There are no bargains out there and pay shouldn't differ that much.

 

[sleepy]

It is possible that the package is worth what he says. Say you have a base salary around $110K. You get a bonus of around $12K. You get restricted stock worth around $20K per year. You are making $152K per year. Figure in the other benefits such as medical, dental 401K match, ESOP, employee discounts, etc.... Now you are making around $180K per year and only working 10 days a month. Not a bad life......

 

[Gulfstream 200]

It is possible that the package is worth what he says. Say you have a base salary around $110K. You get a bonus of around $12K. You get restricted stock worth around $20K per year. You are making $152K per year. Figure in the other benefits such as medical, dental 401K match, ESOP, employee discounts, etc.... Now you are making around $180K per year and only working 10 days a month. Not a bad life......

Not a bad life...but you are not making 180K a year! -you are making 110K.

You cant plan your family budget on stock options or a bonus (or at least I hope one isn't!) and you can't pay for groceries with medical benefits or employee discounts.

Don't get me wrong, all good things to have..but certainly not salary. I always loved that little chart the company provides showing me "total compensation"....then wonder where it is when I get paid. At some point in the last handful of years of obscene corporate greed, the basic health benefits they should provide have magically become part of YOUR compensation!

I also loved the "we always give a bonus" statement that is of course, never in writing.

I know, just wording...but I'd guess that I'm not the only one here who has seen stock options/gifts become totally worthless over the last few years.

If able - in any part of the hiring/salary process, I would trade any of the unknown stuff for STRAIGHT F'N SALARY.

 

[sleepy]

Not a bad life...but you are not making 180K a year! -you are making 110K.

You cant plan your family budget on stock options or a bonus (or at least I hope one isn't!) and you can't pay for groceries with medical benefits or employee discounts.

Don't get me wrong, all good things to have..but certainly not salary. I always loved that little chart the company provides showing me "total compensation"....then wonder where it is when I get paid. At some point in the last handful of years of obscene corporate greed, the basic health benefits they should provide have magically become part of YOUR compensation!

I also loved the "we always give a bonus" statement that is of course, never in writing.

I know, just wording...but I'd guess that I'm not the only one here who has seen stock options/gifts become totally worthless over the last few years.

If able - in any part of the hiring/salary process, I would trade any of the unknown stuff for STRAIGHT F'N SALARY.

Yeah, we are getting the full bonus in "this economy". The stock keeps vesting and paying. My glass is half full. Maybe it is half empty where you work? Stock options are worthless, restricted stock only requires a little loyality and it pays (vests 50% every two years). So after 4 years with the company you own $40k or more worth of stock Per year on top of the salary and bonus.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Yeah, we are getting the full bonus in "this economy". The stock keeps vesting and paying. My glass is half full. Maybe it is half empty where you work? Stock options are worthless, restricted stock only requires a little loyality and it pays (vests 50% every two years). So after 4 years with the company you own $40k or more worth of stock Per year on top of the salary and bonus.

actually much less than half empty!

Stock went from about $60-$1 in approx 2 years...the vesting schedule and options were pretty much useless. Ballpark 300K on paper became about 5K.

I don't wish that on anyone, for your sake I hope that stock keeps paying, and I'm sure glad I didn't consider it salary.

I can say that bonuses actually went up for some, maybe as a way to try and keep the better performers around?...which also didn't work.

Oh well...its just a job.

 

[rumrnr78]

Not a bad life...but you are not making 180K a year! -you are making 110K.

You cant plan your family budget on stock options or a bonus (or at least I hope one isn't!) and you can't pay for groceries with medical benefits or employee discounts.

Don't get me wrong, all good things to have..but certainly not salary. I always loved that little chart the company provides showing me "total compensation"....then wonder where it is when I get paid. At some point in the last handful of years of obscene corporate greed, the basic health benefits they should provide have magically become part of YOUR compensation!

I also loved the "we always give a bonus" statement that is of course, never in writing.

I know, just wording...but I'd guess that I'm not the only one here who has seen stock options/gifts become totally worthless over the last few years.

If able - in any part of the hiring/salary process, I would trade any of the unknown stuff for STRAIGHT F'N SALARY.

Fooking brilliant post. Anyone considering a compensation package needs to refer to the above statement.

Cheers!