G4dude wants to scab thread.

[G4dude]

Disagreeing is one thing. Actually crossing the line is another. Lots of strikers in every strike disagree with going out. But they do it because that's what democracy has dictated, and they know that stabbing their fellow pilots in the back is wrong. If you decide to do that, then you deserve every awful thing that happens to you.

Shame on you.

 

[realityman]

G4,

I'm not mad at anyone, except maybe our EMT.

At this point, I'm not even trying to convince you to walk a picket line with anyone.

All I'm trying to do is explain to you why becoming a scab is a bad thing, and why scabs are treated the way they are.

I haven't said you have to like any of it.

But at this point, if you really and truly can't understand why scabs are treated so poorly, then there's just no presenting anything that will help you understand. You've already convinced yourself that crossing a picket line isn't so bad, and shouldn't have any negative consequences.

Here's the short version: Like it or not (yes, I know you don't like it), you are part of the union. Union actions are based on what the majority wants. Sometimes, that will go against what you want, or think is appropriate. Nevertheless, as part of the union it is incumbent upon each member to support that union, even if you don't agree with it. In a strike, you certainly don't have to walk the picket line, but just don't cross it. Why is it that you don't understand that scanning isn't just 'not supporting the union', it's actively working against it. Imagine a football team where one or two players don't like the plays the coach is calling for. But instead of simply refusing to take the field, they go out and run a touchdown for the opposing team. Woud you think the players of that team would be pleasant to these two guys after the game? In fact, it may be a very long time before they ever forgive those players. Now think of a large group of pilots trying to improve their livelihoods for themselves, their families, their coworkers, and even others throughout the industry. How should they feel when a small group actively works against their goals?

Alright, I'm out of analogies. If we strike and you disagree, speak up to your union officials. Refuse to walk the picket lines. Whatever. Just don't cross the line, because at that point you've gone from disagreement to taking the field for the other team. It's going to generate a whole ton of anger towards you, and justifiably so.

 

[G4dude]

G4,

I'm not mad at anyone, except maybe our EMT.

At this point, I'm not even trying to convince you to walk a picket line with anyone.

All I'm trying to do is explain to you why becoming a scab is a bad thing, and why scabs are treated the way they are.

I haven't said you have to like any of it.

But at this point, if you really and truly can't understand why scabs are treated so poorly, then there's just no presenting anything that will help you understand. You've already convinced yourself that crossing a picket line isn't so bad, and shouldn't have any negative consequences.

Here's the short version: Like it or not (yes, I know you don't like it), you are part of the union. Union actions are based on what the majority wants. Sometimes, that will go against what you want, or think is appropriate. Nevertheless, as part of the union it is incumbent upon each member to support that union, even if you don't agree with it. In a strike, you certainly don't have to walk the picket line, but just don't cross it. Why is it that you don't understand that scanning isn't just 'not supporting the union', it's actively working against it. Imagine a football team where one or two players don't like the plays the coach is calling for. But instead of simply refusing to take the field, they go out and run a touchdown for the opposing team. Woud you think the players of that team would be pleasant to these two guys after the game? In fact, it may be a very long time before they ever forgive those players. Now think of a large group of pilots trying to improve their livelihoods for themselves, their families, their coworkers, and even others throughout the industry. How should they feel when a small group actively works against their goals?

Alright, I'm out of analogies. If we strike and you disagree, speak up to your union officials. Refuse to walk the picket lines. Whatever. Just don't cross the line, because at that point you've gone from disagreement to taking the field for the other team. It's going to generate a whole ton of anger towards you, and justifiably so.

Thank you for a terrific post. I understand everything you say. I really do. Including the anger if I scab, which I probably won't. The anger does NOT JUSTIFY ostracizing someone for the rest of his career. That is beyond the Pale.

 

[jonjuan]

Thank you for a terrific post. I understand everything you say. I really do. Including the anger if I scab, which I probably won't. The anger does NOT JUSTIFY ostracizing someone for the rest of his career. That is beyond the Pale.

Read about what happened to the guys who crossed the line at Spirit. I wouldn't want to be that guy or their families. Their lives must be miserable even now.

 

[G4dude]

Read about what happened to the guys who crossed the line at Spirit. I wouldn't want to be that guy or their families. Their lives must be miserable even now.

I bet you are right. What a shame people are treated so badly. It a rough world out there.

 

[Diesel]

Thank you for a terrific post. I understand everything you say. I really do. Including the anger if I scab, which I probably won't. The anger does NOT JUSTIFY ostracizing someone for the rest of his career. That is beyond the Pale.

The fact that you say I probably won't scab shows you still don't understand why being a scab is the worst of the worst.

If you decide to be a scab then you get to be treated like the lowest of the low. You placed yourself ahead of your fellow brothers and is actively helping out the other side to ensure that they win against your once former brothers and sisters.

You make a decision you live with it. You just don't like the results. Life isn't fair. Man up and live with your decisions don't cry about it.

 

[Diesel]

I worry more about our employer's overhead becoming unsustainably high if we push too hard.

It's good to see the companies fud is working well. Oh no our company can't afford to give us a raise or keep our benefits.

You are the perfect company employee. You believe the lies and fuzzy math that makes you feel better about your job and willing to sell out fellow pilots.

In the end you have no experience in this matter.

You have no experience in union negotiations.
You aren't involved in the union you consider them thugs
You believe what the company is putting out and discount what the union is putting out
You're willing to sell your other pilots down the road to further your own gains.
You aren't willing to support any union initiatives for fear it might rock the boat.
You attack pilots personally yet don't understand why you should be attacked if you scab.

That about sums up your position.

 

[PCL_128]

I bet you are right. What a shame people are treated so badly. It a rough world out there.

However they're being treated is better than they deserve.

 

[brokeflyer]

some people just aren't too bright.....even gulfstream pilots.

 

[Praetorian]

So who is this guy. I think it's time we knew his name.

 

[Diesel]

So who is this guy. I think it's time we knew his name.

I'm not going to out him. First of all it's against the TOS. Second using anonymity might be helping him learn about how a union works.

 

[gutshotdraw]

some people just aren't too bright.....even gulfstream pilots.

I resemble that remark....

 

[G4dude]

I resemble that remark....

I REALLY resemble it!

 

[G4dude]

I'm not going to out him. First of all it's against the TOS. Second using anonymity might be helping him learn about how a union works.

This is a very good point, Diesel. Thanks.

 

[gunfyter]

I'm trying to help you. I also believe in the market. If it were free. It's not. The game is rigged against our side.

 

[G4dude]

I'm trying to help you. I also believe in the market. If it were free. It's not. The game is rigged against our side.

I think now with the pilot shortage, the game is gonna be rigged for our side.

 

[Diesel]

I think now with the pilot shortage, the game is gonna be rigged for our side.

Ok kit Darby.

 

[Praetorian]

I'm not going to out him. First of all it's against the TOS. Second using anonymity might be helping him learn about how a union works.

You could just PM it to me, I'll spread it around. I think how a union should work is if you get on a message board and profess your willingness to scab (hurt your fellow pilots by weakening your reps position at the table) you get outed.

Do you have the courage of your convictions? You guys are in a fist fight. Do you have what it will take to win? Or is it ????

 

[G4dude]

You could just PM it to me, I'll spread it around. I think how a union should work is if you get on a message board and profess your willingness to scab (hurt your fellow pilots by weakening your reps position at the table) you get outed.

Do you have the courage of your convictions? You guys are in a fist fight. Do you have what it will take to win? Or is it ????

I think I met you once in a little FBO in the Midwest! You were loudly declaiming about wonderful unionism to all and sundry. It embarassed everyone there. Yeah, THAT was you! Just kidding. You are just another dreary union thug.

 

[Praetorian]

I think I met you once in a little FBO in the Midwest! You were loudly declaiming about wonderful unionism to all and sundry. It embarassed everyone there. Yeah, THAT was you! Just kidding. You are just another dreary union thug.

Yup you're right. I am a Teamster thug. We don't f??k around with scabs.

We've never met in the Midwest or anywhere else. I would remember your scab stink if we had.

I'm not kidding.