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Ft. Rucker?

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Mr. Hogprint, you have the order correct. The army's needs always come first. How it works now, the training company at Rucker tells DA how many slots they need for upcoming aviators, say 50 for example. DA sends back 50 slots, divided up among the airframes based on how many new guys they need in what airframe. For example, they might send back 2 47's, 25 60's, 8 64's, and 15 58's. Prior to selection day, a list goes around the class and everybody gets to list their first, second, and third choices. On selection day, everybody sits around a conference table and a cadre member goes down the order of merit list assigning airframes based on the wish list. If your first choice is unavailable, you get your second, and so on.
 
Hogprint said:
I guess needs of the army are still #1 when choosing airframes, but how will the breakdown go after that?


Top of class gets first choice then pick and choose? When I went through in 90, before we started flying, they had us do a battery of tests on a computer. It was supposed to identify what airframe that person would be best suited for. I was under the impression that your score helped determine (although at the bottom of the list) what direction you went.

When I went through in 83, the classes before us had always been assigned airframes by the command. The better one performed the more likely one would receive an Aeroscout track. For our class we were allowed to choose based on class standing and airframe availability (needs of the army). There were only about 18 of us, and the first 10 or so of us went either Hawk, Cobra or for the Guard, Huey. That left the bottom 7 or so to go to the Aeroscout track. We did not hear good things from the Instructor group about the students. As a result we were told, the system we used was halted.

They seem to reinvent the wheel fairly often in Ruckerland. I recall some of our WOJGs had completed a "multi-track" program which had the same intention; more airframe hours at graduation. Then some of our new guys no longer did it and were back to an AQC. Seems the multi-track was helpful as the newbies made it through RL progression a little faster, or so we were told by the SP. I never noticed a difference in the cockpit.

I am really getting old. I gave a thought last week to flying down to Enterprise or Dothan and visiting the museum. Just need a pair of checkered slacks.
 
I went through Multi-track on the Cobra in 90. After instruments, you either tracked scouts, Cobras, Hueys, or hawks. Apaches and Hooks were considered AQC.

I think they changed it a year or so after I left. The TH-67 were coming on line then also.
 
Reminds me of a story. If you stick around long enough and keep observing, what you're waiting for will eventually come around again.

Case in point: Commissioned IPs. Late 70's it was not unheard of but somewhat rare for a 03 Company Cdr to be an IP unless he previously was one in another life as a WO or picked it up in the RC. Then came the early 80s and a rash of accidents that ended a bunch of previously required maneuvers in the UH-1 during IERW (touchdown autos, hydraulics-off demonstrations, and power-on running landings/ touch & go's are several that I recall).

Then in 1986 about a year after the AV branch was created (another full circle story), Rucker/TRADOC decided that many of these 500 hr Company Commanders who were no longer trained to perform some of these previously required (and highly useful) maneuvers "couldn't fly" and if they couldn't fly well, then how could they command an aviation company well?

So somebody decided, "I know, let's make them all do a year or two as a Rucker IP before they can command." This ran counter to all previous aviation officer personnel policy at the time. But that became the policy. Soon every Captain had to be rotated into IP school and serve a utilization tour at Rucker prior to assuming command. But by the end of 1987 that policy wasn't working work so well either; not enough IP school slots, timing problems, didn't need that many IPs, not everyone was cut out to be an Instructor, etc, so eventually that policy was abandoned as well.

I have no idea what the current doctrine is but I'll bet it discourages 03s from being IPs. But whatever it is, if you wait long enough, we'll likely see it come full circle again.

I wouldn't sell my stock in colored baseball caps yet, either. They may be back someday too. Only George is gone for good.
 
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nosehair said:
....George?
George was the name of the overspeed governor in the TH-55.
If you rapped on too much throttle too quickly, George would kick in and bump the RPMs back down to prevent an overspeed.

I don't think he'll be back unless the Army goes back to recips for primary.
 
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Birdstrike,

I remember seeing a couple of O3 IPs in Cobra hall when I was going through. All the primary and Inst guys were retired and I can't recall who the contractor was at the time.

Your right though...it will all come full circle in a few years!
 
How does the Army justify doing all the training in the selected airframe? I imagine that the cost of a 64 per flight hour completely dwarfs the cost of a TH67 flight hour. Plus, they would have to generate so many more combat airframes that the amount of maintenace workers would be staggering. Do they have contract maintenace, or do they use soldiers? How can they pull combat airframes out of Iraq/Afghanistan just to fill the flight line at Rucker?

I understand the desire to have a new aviator more experienced in his assigned airframe, I just can't believe that the Army will cover the financial and logistical cost.
 
Kuma said:
How does the Army justify doing all the training in the selected airframe? I imagine that the cost of a 64 per flight hour completely dwarfs the cost of a TH67 flight hour. Plus, they would have to generate so many more combat airframes that the amount of maintenace workers would be staggering. Do they have contract maintenace, or do they use soldiers? How can they pull combat airframes out of Iraq/Afghanistan just to fill the flight line at Rucker?

I understand the desire to have a new aviator more experienced in his assigned airframe, I just can't believe that the Army will cover the financial and logistical cost.

Kuma,

Your obviosly looking at this through an AF spectrum! :)

Unless anything has changed, all maint is contract at Rucker. Initial and Instrument tng is done in the 67. Then you move on to mission specific tng in your airframe. The airframes at Rucker will probably remain there for the duration of their life (I'm sure there are exceptions). When we were training on the UH-1s, they were all Nam era birds. They even had a couple of 59' frames in service around 90' (retired later that year) that I had the chance to fly.

I guess that part of training would be comparable to the Navys RAG maybe? The difference being we just had the pleasure of camping out in UCLA. (Unknown Corner of Lower Alabama!)
 
Andy Neill said:
Hey! So was I!

Hey, Andy! You got lost...so, were you an instructor?...or did you just go through helicopter flight school an' on to Nam?...? what? Did you live in Dothan, Enterprise, or Ozark? I lived in all of 'em...

Gold Flight 72-07
 
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Wow! When I went through Mother Rucker in 80 we got to fill out the "Dream Sheet" on what track or aircraft we wanted to fly. I chose to stay with the "Old Huey" because I knew the Cobra guys wouldn't be knocking down much flight. As I recall everyone who wanted scout or cobra's got it. There was no Fixed Wing track available at the time, you had to be W3 or W4 to be even considered. Birdstrike you are correct on the Commisioned Officers IP training, I showed up for the Advance course in 84 and the group of us who had orders for IP training, our orders were cancelled because unless you were going overseas the Commisioned side got our slots. Things sure have changed.

Orange Flight 80-27
 
nosehair said:
..Did you live in Dothan, Enterprise, or Ozark? I lived in all of 'em...

Gold Flight 72-07
I'll never forget the look on my wife's face, a Yankee, when I asked her whether she'd prefer to live in Ozark or Enterprise?
 
You haven't experienced 'The South' until you've lived in Daleville!

(pronounced correctly, daleville lasts 5 seconds)
 
I liked the barber shop in Daleville with the Korean girls who would give you a neck massage and hair cut for $1.50. 1981 dollars.

81-15
 
D17s said:
I liked the barber shop in Daleville with the Korean girls who would give you a neck massage and hair cut for $1.50. 1981 dollars.

81-15

Still there last time I went through in 95. I think the price went up to $8 though...
 

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