Friendly NJI/NJA discussion

ghostrider64

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Okay folks in this thread I request you all leave your negativity at home. I'm starting this because I believe we all do the same job and all of our profits go to the same bank account BRK....

Very soon there will be a mixed bag in the cockpit doing the same job you did yesterday.

My question is now for the NJI folks. Seeing that there will be Union guys now flying G's are any of you interested in having the opportunity to fly anything but G's?

Seems to me that this would be the perfect time to consider a voluntary move to 1108 with Grandfathered protections in the G's...Perhaps you could have super seniority in them and receive a seniority number also for fleet wide bids. I have loved being able to fly varied types of aircraft through out my stay at NJA.

BTW I'm no recruiter for the IBT but for the first time in my history they seem to be working for me...
 

Hawkered

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That's the spirit, bring 'em all over here as well. No fences. If they fly big iron across the pond, maybe some of'em want a break from that?

C'mon guys!
 

TCA

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Hold er Newt!

Does anyone have a public copy of the TA ? All we have is rumors. We know none of this.

Thanks for the attempt not to start the war, but I feel that there are way too many opportunities in you post for an explosion.

Please everyone keep the silly emotions out this and post something useful.

Thats for responders and not to Ghostrider

Still Climbing
TCA
 

ghostrider64

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This is not a rumor....

1/3rd of all new (by growth and by attrition) capt slots will be filled by Pilots on the current NJA Seniority list.

1/2 of all new (by growth or attrition) FO slots will be filled by pilots on the current NJA seniority list.

We are prevented from posting here anything from our internal website but when we are allowed I would be happy to post it.

As I've said above, this is not a rumor this is in the current TA.

Also the TA has salary provisions for the Gulfstream aircraft. However our FO's will all be paid per our contract which is quite a bit less than the NJI scale.
 
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TCA

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Ta Post

I think GRIZZ just released it...
 

zman300

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ghostrider64 said:
This is not a rumor....

1/3rd of all new (by growth and by attrition) capt slots will be filled by Pilots on the current NJA Seniority list.

1/2 of all new (by growth or attrition) FO slots will be filled by pilots on the current NJA seniority list.

We are prevented from posting here anything from our internal website but when we are allowed I would be happy to post it.

As I've said above, this is not a rumor this is in the current TA.

Also the TA has salary provisions for the Gulfstream aircraft. However our FO's will all be paid per our contract which is quite a bit less than the NJI scale.

Why won't the FOs be paid the same as any other NJI FO? That seems screwy. I don't know why some much animosity and talk of anybody getting screwed. First, a lot can happen in three years. Second, based on what Grizz just posted: "In the event the NMB rules in favor of the Union the IBT will control the NJA and NJI pilot integration and the subsequent amalgamation of wages, benefits, and work rules which must be executed in an equitable manner." The last part of that is key.
 

ghostrider64

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Zman...

It appears that there was some give and take across the board to get the company to increase the overall Capt wages.

Example would be that SIC's receiving bypass pay will still receive old Capt wages even though they aren't capts.

There are differences in the FO scales for class4 (includes G's) and class 5 (everything over 100K lbs) But from what I can tell the NJA FO's will now be starting at $50K in the G's.

I wouldn't be suprised at all if all NJI new hires aren't paid the same. It would make sense would it not from the company's perspective?
 

hydrarkt

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I believe that NJI will eventually be integrated into NJA. Business wise it makes more sense, Union or not. Before the contracts negotiations became contentious, most pilots at NJA were happy with the company's potential and with the job. It was only after negotiations became ugly that the fur started flying. The smart move will be to merge the two... how, I don't know.
I also believe that the single carrier petition will be won by NJA. There are just too many things in favor of single carrier. And now that there will be NJA pilots on board, I thnk it will be a done deal in 3 years. I believe that Santulli knows this but needed to save a little face in negotiations and couldn't give away the whole thing..... time will tell.
 

zman300

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ghostrider64 said:
Zman...

It appears that there was some give and take across the board to get the company to increase the overall Capt wages.

Example would be that SIC's receiving bypass pay will still receive old Capt wages even though they aren't capts.

There are differences in the FO scales for class4 (includes G's) and class 5 (everything over 100K lbs) But from what I can tell the NJA FO's will now be starting at $50K in the G's.

I wouldn't be suprised at all if all NJI new hires aren't paid the same. It would make sense would it not from the company's perspective?

Hmm, I don't know. Are the A guys who are going to fly the G still going to be considered NJA employees? If so, then I guess it makes sense. NJA employee, NJA pay scale. But if they're NJI employees, they should be payed what any other of our FOs get payed. Just seems fair to me....
 

cosmotheassman

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who cares about flying "heavy iron" Gulfstreams? Why does everyone want to fly them? I don't want to sit in a seat for 10 hours personally...
 

Hawkered

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The issue is...freedom of choice governed by seniority, not to mention salary.
 

ghostrider64

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I would never give up my Capt salary to fly a G. But personally I would love to do more international flying. There are a lot of places in the world I would love to see and get paid for it:)
 

zman300

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ghostrider64 said:
I would never give up my Capt salary to fly a G. But personally I would love to do more international flying. There are a lot of places in the world I would love to see and get paid for it:)

That's what I don't get: why would an NJA captain give up salary to fly a G (presumably to match NJI starting Capt salary?), but NJA FOs who fly the G don't get a pay bump. Oh well....

Let me tell ya, in my opinion, international flying is HIGHLY over-rated. You won't get to see a lot by the time your body clock adjusts and you end up covering a bunch of NJE trips :( I always figure if I can get a comfy room and a good meal, one cathedral or castle's as good as another.
 

gutshotdraw

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Sorry, I was just trying to get the license plate number of the bus while dusting myself off. Given the parties involved on both sides, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.


The leaks in the dike will start dripping on the day of signing and there won't be enough fingers to plug the holes before it becomes a torrent.

Every cancer starts with just one cell.

How many straws will it take to break the camel's back?

Whoops, got carried away with cliched allegory.


Looks like RTS will be in Hilton Head this week to give the bad news personally. That ought to be a fun meeting.

Congratulations to the SU MEC and their negotiating committee for getting a deal I frankly didn't think they would get. I'm definitely retiring that crystal ball. Again....
 

ghostrider64

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None of the capts who bid those positions will lose a penny.

As for the FO's my guess is a lot of our new FO's will bid it and then depart after gaining a bit of experience. (Green Pasture Syndrome) Especially since most new hires wont see Capt pay for a long time. Even in the Ultra.

I just want a couple of trips to Munchen during Oktober Fest:)
 

zman300

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ghostrider64 said:
I just want a couple of trips to Munchen during Oktober Fest:)

Ah, gotcha. I was just there a couple weeks ago. Like I said though, by the time you get done working for NJE, you won't see a thing; we didn't :(
 

old*art

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Looks like RTS will be in Hilton Head this week to give the bad news personally. That ought to be a fun meeting.

A friendly word of caution to you NJI people, based on past experience with NJA meetings of assurance and promises, if his lips are moving ..............
 

Hawkered

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I know this is all in jest, but it's not conducive to a harmonius future. Time to knock it off!
 

SeaSpray

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gutshotdraw said:
Sorry, I was just trying to get the license plate number of the bus while dusting myself off. Given the parties involved on both sides, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.


The leaks in the dike will start dripping on the day of signing and there won't be enough fingers to plug the holes before it becomes a torrent.

Every cancer starts with just one cell.

How many straws will it take to break the camel's back?

Whoops, got carried away with cliched allegory.


Looks like RTS will be in Hilton Head this week to give the bad news personally. That ought to be a fun meeting.

Congratulations to the SU MEC and their negotiating committee for getting a deal I frankly didn't think they would get. I'm definitely retiring that crystal ball. Again....

I had started a dialog with Joe to come to NJI upon my retirement from the military. I won't be doing that now.

The concept of being first officer to an unqualified NJA captain in an aircraft in which I have thousands of hours in command is somewhat less than appealing. (1/3 of all new captains will come from the NJA seniority list) You are creating an unsafe operating model.

It is apparent that NJI will become a union organization and I have an ethical issue with unions in general and the Teamsters in specific which has a history of involvement in organized crime.

Looks like after Joe and Bill got in trouble, they couldn't look out for you guys. Too bad.
 
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