Freedom loses all 50 seat flying for Delta.

[outtahere]

Down in flames! Woo Hoo! Burn baby burn!

 

[standaman]

No April Fools Joke

Reuters
Mesa Air says to fight Delta plan to quit contract
Tuesday April 1, 9:22 pm ET
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Mesa Air Group Inc (NasdaqGS:MESA - News) on Tuesday said it plans to contest Delta Air Lines Inc's (NYSE:DAL - News) plan to terminate a contract with its Freedom Airlines Inc unit.
Phoenix-based Mesa said Delta notified it on March 28 of its intent to terminate a connection agreement with Freedom dated May 3, 2005.
It said Delta alleged that Freedom failed to complete a specified number of flights on ERJ-145 jets during three months of the six-month period ending Feb 2008. Mesa said the notice would allow Freedom to keep providing connection services to Delta while the airlines work out a "transition agreement."
(Reporting by Jonathan Stempel; Editing by Gary Hill)

 

[dowhite2]

Here is the key paragraph:

"The alleged failure to maintain the specified completion rate in the contract is due to Delta's own request of Mesa to remove flights to benefit Delta's overall operation and/or to accommodate Delta mainline flights. These flights, among others, have always been taken out of Freedom's performance calculations in the past and Delta acted consistent with this practice and has paid Mesa both its base margin and its incentive margin after crediting Mesa for the Delta mandated schedule changes and /or cancellations."

Anyone who flies out of JFK for DCI (expecially during winter weather) will see almost ALL of their operations grind to a halt due to "delta commanded" cancellations. Delta is obviously reaching far out on a limb to get rid of 50 seat capacity and would rather it come from a connection carrier that they do not own. So who is the other primary operator out of JFK? Freedom, there you go.

This cancellation won't stand up in court, if it gets that far. I don't think it is coincidence the link on deltanet is now down.

 

[SSDD]

Aren't those cancellations what Skywest's lawsuit was about?

 

[pdub20s]

Down in flames! Woo Hoo! Burn baby burn!

Pilots losing jobs and lively hood are nothing to be excited about.

 

[pdub20s]

Here is the key paragraph:

"The alleged failure to maintain the specified completion rate in the contract is due to Delta's own request of Mesa to remove flights to benefit Delta's overall operation and/or to accommodate Delta mainline flights. These flights, among others, have always been taken out of Freedom's performance calculations in the past and Delta acted consistent with this practice and has paid Mesa both its base margin and its incentive margin after crediting Mesa for the Delta mandated schedule changes and /or cancellations."

Anyone who flies out of JFK for DCI (expecially during winter weather) will see almost ALL of their operations grind to a halt due to "delta commanded" cancellations. Delta is obviously reaching far out on a limb to get rid of 50 seat capacity and would rather it come from a connection carrier that they do not own. So who is the other primary operator out of JFK? Freedom, there you go.

This cancellation won't stand up in court, if it gets that far. I don't think it is coincidence the link on deltanet is now down.

I hope your right

 

[rickair7777]

Pilots losing jobs and lively hood are nothing to be excited about.

In this unique case it is. The industry will be better off, and the MAG pilots will be happier...even if they don't know it yet.

 

[pdub20s]

In this unique case it is. The industry will be better off, and the MAG pilots will be happier...even if they don't know it yet.

in that case. PM me the routing number to your checking account. so you can pay my bills and etc while i look for another job

 

[rickair7777]

in that case. PM me the routing number to your checking account. so you can pay my bills and etc while i look for another job

Sorry, JO already cost me two years of my life. But I'm glad I had enough sense to get out early enough to be halfway up somebody else's list.

I still think you'll be better off, give it a few months and see.

 

[wmuflyguy]

I hope your right

The rest of us will hope he is wrong. You have to understand that Mesa screwed many airlines, put pilots out of jobs, and devastated many other airline employees lifes in the process of getting to where Mesa finds themselves today.

I wish you well, but Mesa as a company needs to be banished from the planet.

 

[gator_hater]

I read somewhere that Go! is doubling their Hawaiian routes form 50 to almost 100. They need to get the planes from somewhere.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I read somewhere that Go! is doubling their Hawaiian routes form 50 to almost 100. They need to get the planes from somewhere.

http://pacific.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2008/03/31/daily2.html?ana=yfcpc

 

[pdub20s]

The rest of us will hope he is wrong. You have to understand that Mesa screwed many airlines, put pilots out of jobs, and devastated many other airline employees lifes in the process of getting to where Mesa finds themselves today.

I wish you well, but Mesa as a company needs to be banished from the planet.

2 wrongs dont make a right

 

[crjskipper]

sorry for you pdub, but mesa is the bottom feeder bringing the industry down. delta got what it asked for, cheap labor, and they have paid for it with terrible results.

the mesa pilots are reeping what they sow, chasing quick upgrades and 90 seat aircraft flown for 50 seat rates and no work rules only helped leverage managements against their work forces.

jo is so slick mesa will probably survive, but all pilots should be hoping this is the begining of the end for them. delta should have done this long ago, hopefully the 900s are next.

 

[wmuflyguy]

2 wrongs dont make a right

So it is only "right" when it doesn't adversely effect you?

To quote you from a post a long way back "you reap what you sow"

when freedom was brought in back in 2005 to put pressure on us at Comair, I almost got furloughed (around a 100 pilots were furloughed and not to mention the CA's being downgraded to FO's) and I also had to move due to my base being downsized.

While you were adding 50 seat aircraft we were parking them...Freedom directly benefited from people who lost their job's. I'm sorry you have to go through it...I know it is not an enjoyable experience.

 

[$$$4nothin]

You are right Pdub. Looseing a job isn't a laughing matter. Tell that to the ALOHA PILOTS. SCREW MESA AND FREEDOM AND GO AND JO.

 

[pdub20s]

you refer to our contract and associate us with being weak.... But you really have no idea how our crooked contract came to be. I have explained it many times and dont have the energy to re post. Those guys that originally crossed over to the non union Freedom are non existent in this company. We were cheated by some bad apples in our group at the time. The blame is not on the pilot group today....Anybody who understands the industry knows that. And im surprised other MESA pilots on this board dont stick up for the group.

 

[Cloudroller]

I am with you pdub - most of the people on here have no ideal how the contract came to be. also the guys at comair, ask the sr guys which airlines paid into the comair strike fund - mesa pilot group was one of them.

 

[pdub20s]

I am with you pdub - most of the people on here have no ideal how the contract came to be. also the guys at comair, ask the sr guys which airlines paid into the comair strike fund - mesa pilot group was one of them.

yea, so quickly people forget

 

[Skywest Pylot]

pdub20s,

How long have you been at Mesa?

 

[eaglemaster]

I was in the March 10th Freedom ERJ145 class that was planned for Delta. Our whole class has been moved to the Mesa side for CRJ 200 and 900 training last week. Some are happy, others not so much. It is not a rumor. We all had to flush Indoc and the ER145 and pick up the CRJ 200 Limitations and Emergency items this past week. Also we go to Indoc again sense Mesa is on a different 121 ticket. We have now become the new April 7th Mesa class.

 

[Skywest Pylot]

I was in the March 10th Freedom ERJ145 class that was planned for Delta. Our whole class has been moved to the Mesa side for CRJ 200 and 900 training last week. Some are happy, others not so much. It is not a rumor. We all had to flush Indoc and the ER145 and pick up the CRJ 200 Limitations and Emergency items this past week. Also we go to Indoc again sense Mesa is on a different 121 ticket. We have now become the new April 7th Mesa class.

Wow, 3000 hrs with an ATP going to Mesa! Are you on crack?

 

[bmpilot2003]

Wow, 3000 hrs with an ATP going to Mesa! Are you on crack?

Crack, meth, herroin, weed, codine he is probably sitting in the back of the class licking the window all day.

 

[bmpilot2003]

you refer to our contract and associate us with being weak.... But you really have no idea how our crooked contract came to be. I have explained it many times and dont have the energy to re post. Those guys that originally crossed over to the non union Freedom are non existent in this company. We were cheated by some bad apples in our group at the time. The blame is not on the pilot group today....Anybody who understands the industry knows that. And im surprised other MESA pilots on this board dont stick up for the group.

I just flew with a former freeDUMb pilot, he chose to leave why don't you do the same. I am renaming anyboy who works there a JO SLAVE.

 

[Bustin]

Nice to know we're all friends! It's this "eye for an eye" mentality that keeps this industry moving the way it does. A competitive black hole. There's no incentive to band together and at this rate there never will be. This industry is out of control.

 

[hyperboy]

act mature

Us MESA pilots do not make the decisions AT ALL! Why do many think that. My decision is that I work only the contract the ALPA signed off on that got rid of the alter ego FREEDOM. don't blame us. I don't want to see anybody lose their job. JO does not call me for decisions. Don't be haters. Please understand that if I got hired by a major I would be gone and I have certainly tried.

Stay strong!

 

[Rotorhead]

MESA pilots don't blame us.

Are you kidding me, don't blame you. YOU took the job with that operation. I chose to leave the industry as a 5k hr ATP rather than pollute the waters whoring out my talents to that pathetic scumbag JO.

 

[lindsaya99]

So it is only "right" when it doesn't adversely effect you?

To quote you from a post a long way back "you reap what you sow"

when freedom was brought in back in 2005 to put pressure on us at Comair, I almost got furloughed (around a 100 pilots were furloughed and not to mention the CA's being downgraded to FO's) and I also had to move due to my base being downsized.

While you were adding 50 seat aircraft we were parking them...Freedom directly benefited from people who lost their job's. I'm sorry you have to go through it...I know it is not an enjoyable experience.

I'm one of those 100 pilots that was furloughed at the end of 2005. My wife and I ended up losing the house we were building at the time. Thanks Mesa pilots!

 

[wmuflyguy]

you refer to our contract and associate us with being weak.... But you really have no idea how our crooked contract came to be. I have explained it many times and dont have the energy to re post. Those guys that originally crossed over to the non union Freedom are non existent in this company. We were cheated by some bad apples in our group at the time. The blame is not on the pilot group today....Anybody who understands the industry knows that. And im surprised other MESA pilots on this board dont stick up for the group.

First off, I never mentioned your contract.

Second, I know how your contract came to be. You were not cheated, you came along well after the contract was signed. You knew exactly what you were getting into.

 

[johndog]

I'm one of those 100 pilots that was furloughed at the end of 2005. My wife and I ended up losing the house we were building at the time. Thanks Mesa pilots!

Are you aware of how Mesa came to fly for Delta? We were flying for US Air. When the merger with America West went through the non wholly owned's were given a chance to either invest in the new air line, AKA pay to play or find new digs. JO decided to find new digs, so Air whisky got all our US AIR flying. They invested a huge amount of money. I don't go up to Air Whisky guys and blame them for my situation. They lost there contract with United and landed at US AIR. Not those pilots fault.
So JO went to Delta. I had a home and life in Charlotte. I have had four bases since that time in addition have been put on the Freedom certificate and have had to suffer through the ignorance of pilots who don't understand that none of us are Freedom A.

Our Union here at Mesa is very weak. They let the company do about anything it wants to us and so we suffer. I feel terrible for the Aloha guys and gals. I've said this from the beginning when JO sent us there, that our Walmart was going to put a good company out of business. It looks as though it has happened.

We've had 787 pilots quit last year. I have personally talked several fo's in to leaving for there family's benefit.

The best thing to do would be to have your union leaders contact ours and show them what Ball$ look like and where they can be found. Though our guys will be busy flying. Every time I turn around we've got a new MEC.

Next best thing to do would be to quite rewarding our chief pilots with good jobs. These guys are the Indian scouts who showed the cavalry where to find the Indians. Our management pilots should replace Benedict Arnold in the lexicon of traitor.

To address your charge, blaming Mesa for you loosing your house is as stupid as me blaming Air Whisky for me loosing Charlotte and US Air. Different situation but blameless pilot group. These decisions are made by the bean counters. Not pilots.

This is not to say there aren't legit complaints about Mesa. We have essentially no work rules. No rigs, No duty day, No line guarantee. And if that weren't enough we get paid less hourly too. We can be JR manned at any time, line holder or not. Our reserves get 8 days off, ALL reserves 8 days off (28 day bid). And on almost all days on reserve you will be sitting at the airport on ready reserve. You should see our crew room in JFK (tiny). In addition almost all lines are constructed with 1-2 days off at a time with one three. This is the same for line holders. This against our contract, our union says nothing. Well thats not entirely true. The Union does say "ask not what your union can do for you, ask what you can do for your union". Not kidding either. I would have to say they picked a pretty accurate slogan.

So if you want to attack us for those things than that would be fair. I will not rehash the Freedom A debacle. But when we role over on stuff that we have in our contract it's just indefensible BS! We need REAL leadership from our union. Just as a community needs REAL leadership from there elected officials. Because I don't like how the war in Iraq is going doesn't mean I have to run for president. But this is what our union will say. I pay for representation. Now REPRESENT me!!!!!

As far as the loosing the Delta flying is concerned. Its not all that suprising with the operation our SOC runs. Wether we are in breach of contract is hard to say. Our management told us we were going to win the Hawaiian law suit as well. And we didn't. The fact that so many people on here are happy about a pilot group loosing there jobs is really a poor reflection on us as a group. Sorry about being long winded.