Frank Lorenzo had an excuse, he was management

[vetrider]

Didn't say you were the "bad guy", just saying it seems to be a lose-lose situation and I don't see anyone really forging a solution, East or West.

Already said I don't like the way they're doing it on the East, just understand why they're upset.

Like I said, I think the situation just sucks in general, no really good solution to be had now, thanks to the hardline East MEC during the arbitration.

Believe it or not, I can understand where they are coming from, to a certain degree, if I step back. The thing is, they don't share that, instead of coming to talk about it they promptly break all previous agreements and threaten us. How smart is that? They just arrogantly think that it is their world and us desert rookies are lucky to breath the same oxygen they do.

Usapa won't be any different for them, simply because the same brain trust and mentality will be working for them once again.

As far as the bad guy label, I didn't mean to insinuate you meant that, it was directed more toward the easties themselves. More of a general declaration than anything.

 

[regionaltard]

Already said I don't like the way they're doing it on the East, just understand why they're upset.

Like I said, I think the situation just sucks in general, no really good solution to be had now, thanks to the hardline East MEC during the arbitration.

I understand that they're upset, but why they're upset keeps coming back to a misguided belief that they were screwed by someone other than the individuals who formulated and executed their "strategy" in arbitration.

The United guys who struck in 1985 were hard-liners; ditto for the Comair group who got far less credit for what they tried to accomplish than they deserved. "Delusional" is a more apt description of the D'OH! crowd.

Agreed that there's no good solution in sight. An arbitration award can be the prelude to further negotiation but it's not likely here. USAPA is a blatant attempt by a larger pilot group to crush a smaller one and its proponents deserve the scorn of us all.

 

[PositiveRate]

While your speculation of USAPA motives, AAA pilots desires, and arbitration wishes makes for a spirited topic of discussion, they are all irrelevant.

You and I seem to be talking about different things here. I'm not debating the NMB process or the election itself.

What I'm saying is the fact that you even get to talk about a dispute vote is because your job was saved by the aquisition of your airline by another. And YES, that is very relevant and is the source of much hypocrisy from the East in general. It's no wonder you won't answer the question as admitting that reality unwinds your positions.

And NO, you would not be concerned in the least over decertification rights or activities had you received what you asked for in arbitration. The ball was dropped by your leadership long long ago. You don't need a new stadium, you need (and have needed for some time) a new ball.

Once again - convenient avoidance of the facts. This is about you not getting what you wanted, being stupid enough to think your leaders could get you what they promised and now attempting (by force) to get what you want through tyranny of the majority.

But don't let the peskiness of the facts get in the way of your precious vote. Are you sure 80% of your fellow East brothers and sisters feel the way you do? That's what you'll need to win.

 

[Lear70]

I think most pilots will admit they can understand the general position of the East pilots. No one likes to get hosed, especially by your own MEC...

My hats off to those of you who can admit that.

I think if more of the East guys could get with those of you who can take that position, you might just find some common ground.

Good luck to you!

 

[Turtle21]

You and I seem to be talking about different things here. I'm not debating the NMB process or the election itself.
....

Well get with the program!:beer:

ALPA has failed to provide useful representation to the West or the East. It is not a union simply because Prater puts on a scowl and rushes around the country screaming, "We ARE a union and we are unified damn it!"

The present circumstances or more than adequate to demonstrate that ALPA is impotent to provide representation to pilots. But they do have a hell of a magazine.

 

[Turtle21]

.. you might just find some common ground.

Good luck to you!

LOL! Yeah we need common ground. In a union, the only problem with common ground is that it requires the foundation that is even more important than common ground... seniority.:laugh:

 

[FR8mastr]

Ah, I see we have another uSAPa supporter who doesn't know the Constitution & Bylaws. What a surprise! .

I am very familiar with the recall process, I know it's very hard for someone that knows everything to admit others may actually have a clue. Did you ever even consider that maybe you are not getting the whole truth from your friends in Herndon? Don't bother answering, as we all know that anything that comes from the brotherhood in Herndon is laced with gold brought about on wings of angels.

I have personally experienced the corruption that is ALPA. I never would expect you to believe any of it, so there is no point going into it. However to constantly claim that anything going on in Herndon must be on the up and up just because its Herndon is crazy.

 

[vetrider]

LOL! Yeah we need common ground. In a union, the only problem with common ground is that it requires the foundation that is even more important than common ground... seniority.:laugh:

Borrowing a line from Cool Hand Luke

"Some men, you just caaiint reach...."

 

[pipe]

PCL. Do you by any chance have a bushy moustache?

PIPE

 

[ferlo]

What a pity. Really.. its a shame.

What's the Pity? the fact the the EAST alpa guys have been stealing union money in the form of Flight Pay Loss, all the while working to subvert the union?

ALPA national should sue them to recover all OUR money.