For those that want to "vote and get it over with" at SKYW

[thebest]

If you don't like unions, your life in this industry is really going to be limited.

1. You stay where you are the rest of your career.
2. You go to work for some No-union airline.. ummmm Jetblue is all i can think of.

Either way... you have limited your chances at advancement. Maybe your young, but even that you will outgrow.

OR....You can lose you're retirement and have to go get ANOTHER job when you hit 60! Go alpa?

 

[bizzum]

I would goto any major that has a union if I had the right base, etc. Going to a major isn't what it used to be but the pay can still be good. I would have no problem with southwest because they don't have ALPA. Also wouldn't have a problem with United since they have bases where I would want to live. Your union dues actually get you something at the major level. At the regional level they do not. Why not save the dues while we all bide our time waiting to goto the majors. Worst case scenario our career ends up being skywest then we ended up doing pretty darn good.

Explain what you get for your ALPA dollars at a major that you do not at a regional?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I would goto any major that has a union if I had the right base, etc.

You seem to have shifing values of convienence

Going to a major isn't what it used to be but the pay can still be good.

You like that ALPA negotiated pay don't you....

I would have no problem with southwest because they don't have ALPA.

But they buy ALPA services to negotiate thier pay. No matter what you do, you benefit from ALPA. Why not contribute instead of just take...

Also wouldn't have a problem with United since they have bases where I would want to live.

Ah its all about you....

Your union dues actually get you something at the major level. At the regional level they do not.

So you like unions and what they can do for you... Actually, the regionals benefit quite a bit from being associated. Its like Rhode Island benefiting from being a part of the Federal Gov't. Rhode Island can't provide for its own defense or state wide disaster... RI needs to unify and belong...

Why not save the dues while we all bide our time waiting to goto the majors.

Ah... its about you....again...

Worst case scenario our career ends up being skywest then we ended up doing pretty darn good.

That justification was said by Pilots at

National
Pan Am
Eastern
TWA
ACA/Independence
UFS
WestAir
Presidential
PSA
Peoples Express
Texas Air
Midway I
Midway II
Chicago Express



Fellas...any others who didn't survive the immunity bubble that Newman thinks is real?

 

[embdrvr]

Worst case scenario our career ends up being skywest then we ended up doing pretty darn good.

Tell that to your senior captains who are unable to properly fund their 401K because they are considered HCE's. Tell that to the senior EMB captains that haven't got a raise in over 6 years. Tell that to our recently retired captains that can't afford health insurance.

One of these days you'll wake up. Might take a while. We'll make sure we put come copies of your idiotic posts in your mailbox so you can review them. At least you'll have some good stories to tell your coworkers at Wal-Mart when you're 80 years old.

 

[FlyinScotsman]

I don't. why do other groups care what we think?

I was at an ALPA carrier, does my experience count for anything?

are my opinions automatically discounted because I don't support the club, or is there a non-union position that you'd respect?

No!.................. Mesa doesn't count!

 

[SkyNation]

it wasn't Mesa.

good point, though. they are under the 'protection' of the all powerful ALPA.

 

[PCL_128]

it wasn't Mesa.

good point, though. they are under the 'protection' of the all powerful ALPA.

The MEC that presided over the negotiation of that contract was voted out long ago.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Tell that to your senior captains who are unable to properly fund their 401K because they are considered HCE's. Tell that to the senior EMB captains that haven't got a raise in over 6 years. Tell that to our recently retired captains that can't afford health insurance.

One of these days you'll wake up. Might take a while. We'll make sure we put come copies of your idiotic posts in your mailbox so you can review them. At least you'll have some good stories to tell your coworkers at Wal-Mart when you're 80 years old.

Don't forget the senior RJ captains that haven't had a COLA in over 6 years, and will get a whopping total of 1% for the next 4 years(in Newwoman's world .1% a year is a fantastic deal, and we should all be thankful)!!!!

 

[Weasil]

Explain what you get for your ALPA dollars at a major that you do not at a regional?

Ok. Jets for Jobs protections whereby you get to not only flowback into a job but also then get to turn around and tell those regional pilots that their flowthrough no longer exists, it's a one way street controlled by the mainline alpa mec at the expense of their regional counter parts who are members of the same friggin union.

Now keep in mind that some of these guys were FOs for a year or so at Mesa, got hired by US Airways and flew there for maybe 9 months and now feel they are entitled to a left seat slotted seniority captain's job in front of guys who have been with a company for 15 years. That's what their mainline ALPA dollars got them.

 

[XPOO]

We here at SkyWest like to think of this whole thing as a yin-yang. The balance between good and evil. The duality of coexistance. You guys stay Evil ALPA, and we'll balance that out by remaining Good Non-Union. Like it or not, you guys benefit from us being non-union as much as we do from you being union. If we were all ALPA it would upset the balance of power and we'd all be on the fast track to the bottom. Harsh reality, but its true.

 

[sweptback]

We here at SkyWest like to think of this whole thing as a yin-yang. The balance between good and evil. The duality of coexistance. You guys stay Evil ALPA, and we'll balance that out by remaining Good Non-Union. Like it or not, you guys benefit from us being non-union as much as we do from you being union. If we were all ALPA it would upset the balance of power and we'd all be on the fast track to the bottom. Harsh reality, but its true.

Silly me, all my time in ALPA and I didn't even realize they represented dispatchers!

 

[Speedtape]

We here at SkyWest like to think of this whole thing as a yin-yang. The balance between good and evil. The duality of coexistance. You guys stay Evil ALPA, and we'll balance that out by remaining Good Non-Union. Like it or not, you guys benefit from us being non-union as much as we do from you being union. If we were all ALPA it would upset the balance of power and we'd all be on the fast track to the bottom. Harsh reality, but its true.

Your logic explains it all. Hope your shrinking real wages over the next few years drives up the value of my Skywest stock! Thank you for your ignorance! St. George and the stockholders value your willingness to continue contributing to their bottom line.

 

[SkyNation]

Don't forget the senior RJ captains that haven't had a COLA in over 6 years, and will get a whopping total of 1% for the next 4 years(in Newwoman's world .1% a year is a fantastic deal, and we should all be thankful)!!!!

I've flown with 4 of the top 10 pilots in the company. Not a single one of them complained about the company the way you do. They were all very positive about how their 20+ years at SkyWest have been. All live in very nice homes in very nice communities. I enjoyed my time with them, and they helped me appreciate what we have here from their perspective.

oh, and non of them were pro-ALPA.

 

[XPOO]

Silly me, all my time in ALPA and I didn't even realize they represented dispatchers!

I'm sorry, next time I will PM SkyNation and have him write it in so it will be coming from a "pylit."

Everyone just wants the pilots here to vote ALPA so we can all be in the same sh!tty boat together. No thanks. Remember that when you play God by voting in a union it affects every job code at that airline, not just the pilots. The SkyWest pilots know we are looking out for, and support, them; and I in return would like to think they are doing the same for us. SkyNation is just one of the many here that actually think about everyone else before theirself.

Quit being jealous. Quit telling me how much we're gonna get screwed 10 years from now for not having a unionized pilot group. Just because we are all 'friends' and you jumped off the bridge first, does not mean we need to follow. Why slit our throats to squeeze an extra dollar that would be just enough to pay for the dues that come along with it? Sorry to kill your hard-on for the SkyWest pilot group, but the majority are happy are. I know you can't possibly believe that pilots enjoy working, but the majority here do. Imagine that.

 

[Rekks Inbound]

Like it or not, you guys benefit from us being non-union as much as we do from you being union <quote>

Please, oh enlightend one, explain to me how we at the 'Evil ALPA' carriers benefit from the Skywest pilots being non-union?

Peace.

Rekks.

 

[XPOO]

I'm not saying its the best alternative, but just like the two-party system in US Government, you keep a collective balance instead of tipping the scale one way all of the time. Also hypothetical, is the reality that if all airlines were ALPA, then all airlines might gang up on ALPA until all pilots are taking concessions. One ALPA group falls and the rest fall with it. And the case could also be stated that just the opposite would happen. Where are airlines pay their pilots $5,000,000 an hour. And everyone is hunky-dorey.

Again, it's the non-union airlines that keep things balanced, so that neither ALPA nor the airlines gain too much momentum either way on the aforementioned scale of 'destiny.'

 

[Rekks Inbound]

The better contract ALPA carriers (ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, Comair) have done their best to hold the line on pay/benefits. And these carriers are loosing flying to specifically, a non-union carrier called Skywest. Ex. UAX, Midwest, Delta.

In AWAC's case, our pilot group would have had to accept the same 99seats for 50 seat rate the the Skywest pilots did, just to retain the flying we had with UAX. We said no, we will not lower ourselves to that. So actually, having Skywest non-union, where management could have imposed those scales at will, if they wanted to to gain the UAX flying, is damaging to the industry and profession in general.

Anyone who is judging ALPA by the past 6 years under Woerth is not getting the whole picture, and those that refuse to accept that ALPA has done great, incredible things for ALL PILOTS, even those not represented by ALPA, during it's 75 year history, are just being ignorant of the facts. And also of guilty of freeloading on the backs of hard working ALPA pilots.

Did some checking, by the way. Skywest pay AND workrules were nowhere near AWAC's when AWAC signed contract '99. Skywest manegement brought them up close because of the union drive going on at the time. Should tell you something.

Peace.

Rekks.

 

[XPOO]

And by SkyWest being one of the few airlines not asking it's pilot group for concessions gives the other airlines no foot to stand on. I'm not bashing on your ALPA representation. GOOD/EVIL....bad analogy. What works for us, may not work for you, and what works for you, may not work for us. No one starts thread bashing the union carriers and convincing them to drop their representation. In respect, you should do the same.

 

[Rekks Inbound]

Overall, I agree with your last post, XPOO. However, some of you other compatriots over at Skywest basically insult and deride us at our union carriers for throwing away our 1.95% in union dues. They are, defacto, tell US that we should drop our representation.

By the way, if you are a dispatcher, then this is not your fight. If you are a pilot flying the line, then you are apparently the one reasonable anti-union guy at Skywest.

Sorry you have to deal with selfish idiots like HelloNewman and SkyNation.

Peace.

Rekks

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I thought the good/evil analogy was between management/labor... not union labor/non union labor.

We have more in common than not.... and we have more in common vs management than not....

 

[XPOO]

Rekks,

Respectfully, SkyNation and HelloNewman are both fellow employees, who may be a little boisterous about the issue. But both know that management does just enough to satisfy them. Its give and take here. You want this, we'll take this away. We'll take this away and give you this instead. And the raises are always around 2% just so you'll decide that voting in ALPA will negate your raise. In defense, they never just take, take, take here. They at least always give you something else. Whether you want it or not in besides the point. But still, its at least a tit for a tat here, which is more than you could reasonably ask for elsewhere.

However, if and when there is another vote, and let's say ALPA does get voted in, I will respect the collective pilots' decision with no qualms. The democratic process at its finest.

 

[Weasil]

If you are a pilot flying the line, then you are apparently the one reasonable anti-union guy at Skywest.



Rekks

There are over 2500 pilots at Skywest and I bet the majority do not post on flightinfo.com so to make such a broad sweeping statement is a little ignorant.

 

[SkyNation]

why am I a selfish idiot? just because I don't want ALPA representing me?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

why am I a selfish idiot? just because I don't want ALPA representing me?

Not saying you are but since you asked, we have gone over this often and many have told you that you do benefit from ALPA, even by being non-ALPA.

If you are going to accept the benefit, then accept the responsbility....

 

[Rekks Inbound]

Thank you, Rez. And I was trying to make a point, Weasil. Probably could have worded it better. Apologies if I insulted you.

Peace.

Rekks.

 

[airtime42]

Rekks,

Respectfully, SkyNation and HelloNewman are both fellow employees, who may be a little boisterous about the issue. But both know that management does just enough to satisfy them. Its give and take here. You want this, we'll take this away. We'll take this away and give you this instead. And the raises are always around 2% just so you'll decide that voting in ALPA will negate your raise. In defense, they never just take, take, take here. They at least always give you something else. Whether you want it or not in besides the point. But still, its at least a tit for a tat here, which is more than you could reasonably ask for elsewhere.

However, if and when there is another vote, and let's say ALPA does get voted in, I will respect the collective pilots' decision with no qualms. The democratic process at its finest.

If you think that crappy overide for the block time in the 700 and 900 is a tit for a tat you are a bigger idiot than I thought. Will all you newbe wanabe pilots at skywest it is no wonder you will bend over for anything mgmt wants to give you. Stand up for your rights and get a life SCABS

 

[SkyNation]

Not saying you are but since you asked, we have gone over this often and many have told you that you do benefit from ALPA, even by being non-ALPA.

If you are going to accept the benefit, then accept the responsbility....

and again, I'll remind that this is an idealogical difference of opinion. you could be represented by ALPA, the IBT, the Knights of Columbus or the Girl Scouts for all I care. That doesn't mean that I am beholden to join them. where is this written? I understand that in your opinion we should join, but this responsibility you speak of? If it was obligatory, then there'd be some sort of law or provision requiring membership. Obviously there isn't. I have no problem with the safety advances that ALPA champions. I don't believe for a second, however, that the industry and profession wouldn't advance of it's own accord without it any more than I believe that if it wasn't for unions that kids would still be chained to sewing machines for 14 hours per day afraid to ask for a bathroom break. I mean, come on, let's be real about the times we're living in.

at the regional level, we all compete to sell lift to our major partners. I am against any organization that seeks to stifle competition or the free market with antiquated ideas and ineffectual leadership.

Rez, I already know you disagree. Point(s) taken. I'm glad that we live in a country that provides us all with the opportunity to choose for ourselves, be it politically, religiously, or whether or not I want to join ALPA.

 

[XJohXJ]

And by SkyWest being one of the few airlines not asking it's pilot group for concessions gives the other airlines no foot to stand on. I'm not bashing on your ALPA representation. GOOD/EVIL....bad analogy. What works for us, may not work for you, and what works for you, may not work for us. No one starts thread bashing the union carriers and convincing them to drop their representation. In respect, you should do the same.

From what I've read from some other Skywest posters, it sounds like your management has unilaterally forced concessions upon you, and also refused to give you pay raises they had already promised you. It sounds like they have not asked for concessions because they do not have to. They can just impose them at will.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

and again, I'll remind that this is an idealogical difference of opinion. you could be represented by ALPA, the IBT, the Knights of Columbus or the Girl Scouts for all I care. That doesn't mean that I am beholden to join them. where is this written? I understand that in your opinion we should join, but this responsibility you speak of? If it was obligatory, then there'd be some sort of law or provision requiring membership. Obviously there isn't. I have no problem with the safety advances that ALPA champions. I don't believe for a second, however, that the industry and profession wouldn't advance of it's own accord without it any more than I believe that if it wasn't for unions that kids would still be chained to sewing machines for 14 hours per day afraid to ask for a bathroom break. I mean, come on, let's be real about the times we're living in.

at the regional level, we all compete to sell lift to our major partners. I am against any organization that seeks to stifle competition or the free market with antiquated ideas and ineffectual leadership.

Rez, I already know you disagree. Point(s) taken. I'm glad that we live in a country that provides us all with the opportunity to choose for ourselves, be it politically, religiously, or whether or not I want to join ALPA.

We aren't talking about a mandate.

Its because of unions that kids aren't chained to sewing machines. Sure it was a long time ago....what is the point? We have weekends cause of unions.

Again your rationale is why do we need police we we have security systems in our house. We do we need the fire dept when we have spinkler systems.

Your logic is based on false pretenses. Answer the following...

If you benefit from ALPA should you not particpate in that benefit? What is it called when some one accepts a benefit for which they don't particpate.

Why is 90+% of regional and major pilots part of a union? What does that tell you?

What do you see on the horizon in terms of globalization?

Should SKW pilots particapte in the political process that they are so greatly effected by?

Do you think SKW is recieving favored status because they are non union?
​

Skynation.. come to the open house for SKW pilots....

 

[Microclimates]

And speaking of tits and tats. anybody care to comment on Brad's new interpretation of pay regarding cancelled flights at skywest? heard rumblings...