For newhires at JetBlue who care about the GoJet fiasco

[A350]

Pot meet kettle.

My arguement all along has been that this is just a continuation of the same thing for years.

The day an RJ overflew a hub city or replaced a mainline jet is the day the horse left the barn. It was done by regional pilots looking out for themselves and not for the greater good of the profession and I dare say not being good stewards of their own careers.

Today the average regional pilot will never get out...for two simple reasons. There are HALF the mainline jobs there used to be and second, their pay would be cut in HALF if they left and it would take years to recover. This is the world we live in.

While I cannot condone the tone of the post quoted, I dare say he is taunting the GJ haters because he can get a rise out of them. Do we have self serving buttheads at JB? I believe we do, just like every other airline out there. Doing your best to haunt them will only hurt your own career (ask the guy who "defended" the profession at the JB open house) and further, it only furthers the divide between groups which in turn, gives management a woody. In your world, if mainline pilots,who saw their pensions and careers go up in smoke after 9/11 while regional pilots had a field day had their way, every regional pilot would be called a scumbag and rejected from employment with the mainline. My point is that they don't because they are professionals and they realize it is business, plain and simple.

It has been like this for years now and everyone is still surprised and hateful....I have news for you. This type of thing is happening all over the industry. One group stepping over another for flying.

A350

 

[LearLove]

Pot meet kettle.

My arguement all along has been that this is just a continuation of the same thing for years.

The day an RJ overflew a hub city or replaced a mainline jet is the day the horse left the barn. It was done by regional pilots looking out for themselves and not for the greater good of the profession and I dare say not being good stewards of their own careers.

hey buddy, I think you may want to rethink that statement........

Who was it and which generation of pilots let the rj flying go to the regionals? It certinatly wasn't my generation (30 to early 40ies guys) that was at the helm in the early 90's when this RJ thing first came about.


As for the GJ issue: I've said this before and I'll say it again....

The fact of the matter has nothing to do with "stealing flying" or another "lowering the bar regional". The issue at hand involving GJ is that a group of several hundred professional pilots (TSA in this case) were presented with an employment situation which went against the contract they agreed to work under. Thus they (the TSA pilots) decided to not accept the terms and made an agreement only to have others come in and undermine the effort.

 

[Captzaahlie]

Pot meet kettle.

My arguement all along has been that this is just a continuation of the same thing for years.

The day an RJ overflew a hub city or replaced a mainline jet is the day the horse left the barn. It was done by regional pilots looking out for themselves and not for the greater good of the profession and I dare say not being good stewards of their own careers.

Today the average regional pilot will never get out...for two simple reasons. There are HALF the mainline jobs there used to be and second, their pay would be cut in HALF if they left and it would take years to recover. This is the world we live in.

While I cannot condone the tone of the post quoted, I dare say he is taunting the GJ haters because he can get a rise out of them. Do we have self serving buttheads at JB? I believe we do, just like every other airline out there. Doing your best to haunt them will only hurt your own career (ask the guy who "defended" the profession at the JB open house) and further, it only furthers the divide between groups which in turn, gives management a woody. In your world, if mainline pilots,who saw their pensions and careers go up in smoke after 9/11 while regional pilots had a field day had their way, every regional pilot would be called a scumbag and rejected from employment with the mainline. My point is that they don't because they are professionals and they realize it is business, plain and simple.

It has been like this for years now and everyone is still surprised and hateful....I have news for you. This type of thing is happening all over the industry. One group stepping over another for flying.

A350

Very well said.....
I finally saw the light and will give up much better than avg. regional pay.... but it will hurt for a good year and a half. Thank God for an interview with a real airline that went pretty well last week. I'll need to mention to the post man that I just might go postal myself if I see him bring me "a letter" from xyz airlines.......
Back to my intended rant:
Even "our" mainline sucked concessions out of us commuter dudes and pitted us against a wholly owned sister company just to F-us in the end. Then on top of it mainline management has close to 50 % of the flying going to out sources (Amazingly one of those groups who had to make investments ot fly for us thought "they" were due a flow through agreement too! just for flying for the company that made the investment.....) WTF over?
A Trans States buddy of mine completely bitched about gojets being whores etc. etc.........
I had to remind him that "all" the contract carriers are out there whoring themselves out to various mainlines. He got real quiet because he knows that he dose flying for 3 separate companies! One day he stands on the Ual corner the next week it's Usair, then it may be DAL the following (if I remember correctly????) (BTW we are still great friends but the truth is the truth) Hell that's as bad as MESA as far as I'm concerned, sure it's business but it sucks that some of us love flying so much that we all had to bend over for each of the entry level guys getting in on the action. What's the solution? I'm not sure, maybe when a crew with 500 hrs tt between them stuffs an RJ into a hard object partially due to reduced rest and a proceeding week of 14 hr duty days the public might become aware of whats going on in the industry and the FAA might jerk themselves off into doing something about it...........

Ok I feel better, goodnight all! uke:

 

[delivery100]

I am absolutely amazed that people can compare what the Go Jet pilots did to FCUK there fellow pilot to what other regionals did to carriers like ACA. It is a 100% a different thing. GOJET Pilots FCUKED their fellow Trans States pilots PERIOD for their Self Serving agenda. To compare this with Mesa undercutting ACA to win a contract is completely and totally ABSURD!!! I Will never forget what GOJETS pilots did to FCUK their brothers....Ever..They are scum pilots and I will do everything in my power to make sure they never work for any other airline.

 

[fxbat]

I was going to go on about TSA and Eagle. But I don't see the point.
Life is to short, move on. Let things work themselves out.

 

[A350]

Lear:

I am not referring to when ALPA carriers allowed regional airlines to get RJ's.....there was and IMO will always be markets that are prime RJ markets. However, after 9/11, airline management fell all over themselves taking flying from the mainline pilots and gave it to whomever would do it the cheapest. Hence the statement about RJ's flying mainline routes and overflying hubs.
Then the RJ got bigger and bigger. Did it really take a savant to figure that if every mainline 100 seater disappeared in favor of regional airline 100 seaters that the profession would melt down? Half the regional carriers have multiple mainline code shares. While this insulates them from mainline meltdowns and gives them diversification of revenue streams, it plays right into the hand of management when it comes to playing one group off on another.

The GoJet thing wasn't the first alter ego....Old Frank pulled it with NYAir. Those NYAir guys are all 777 CA's for CAL and ALPA members to boot.

Anyone who has an idea of how to stop it should let the rest of us in on the secret. Until the, I suggest to learn to live with it.

A350

 

[Shrek]

I interviewed alongside a GoJeter last month...He stuck out like the proverbial sore thumb, pensive, defensive, secretive. He was weeded out. They hired the two Trans States loyalists instead. What goes around comes around.

GOOD to hear..........NEVER FORGET

 

[J Dawg]

Lear:

I am not referring to when ALPA carriers allowed regional airlines to get RJ's.....there was and IMO will always be markets that are prime RJ markets. However, after 9/11, airline management fell all over themselves taking flying from the mainline pilots and gave it to whomever would do it the cheapest. Hence the statement about RJ's flying mainline routes and overflying hubs.

A350

I think he is referring to your comment about regional pilots only looking out for themselves and not the good of the profession. If that is the case, one can turn right around and point a finger at the legacy guys as well for scoping out their flying in exchange for hefty raises.

Take United for example. Pilots got 35% raise in the Summer of 2000 (and almost ruined their airline in the process). Management got scope relief for 235 RJs. Would it have been reasonable to United pilots for a 20% raise and no scope relief? During the following downturn, those nice 35% raises went bye bye, but the RJs stayed. And where was ALPA in all this?

So who is it you are accusing of only looking out for themselves?

 

[J32driver]

It absolutely amazes me how many pilots in this country don't understand what GoJets is. And it equally amazes me that someone would lump the rest of the regional industry in with "specialized union busters".

Gojets exists to force contract concessions on TransStates pilots. Thats it! They are an alter-ego carrier and the the pilots... well... to quote Frank Doss...."I wouldn't pi$$ on them if they were on fire!"

There are alot of folks out there who are trying to excuse GoJets when they are inexcusable. Every last one of you should be ashamed!

 

[A350]

Dawg:

I don't hold the regional pilots any more accountable for the demise of the profession than anyone else, including the mainline guys.....

What I have been saying all along is that the minions who would crucify someone else for what they perceive as a wrong should look around....there is plenty of blame to go around and noone is blameless. We did this to ourselves. The reaction to this wrong is what I get POed about.

Go ahead and let it eat at you forever. It serves no purpose. Even the line crossers from previous ALPA battles are better off than the average union pilot. It's a fact.

A350