For newhires at JetBlue who care about the GoJet fiasco

[brainhurts]

Seriously?

GoJets
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GoJet_Airlines
An alter-ego carrier set up by Trans States Airlines. Pilots not on TSA seniority list, pulled willing, self-serving volunteers from outside the company and across the TSA seniority list and put them in the left seat of a shiny new jet at the expense of TSA ALPA pilots.

pensive
adjective1. deeply or seriously thoughtful; "Byron lives on not only in his poetry, but also in his creation of the 'Byronic hero' - the persona of a brooding melancholy young man"; [syn: brooding] 2. showing pensive sadness; "the sensitive and wistful response of a poet to the gentler phases of beauty"

Thank you. Now can you tell me what these lesions on my peni$ are?

 

[rtmcfi]

Pilots of ACA and Air Wisc. were asked for concessions, yet voted no to preserve regional pilot pay.

AWAC pilots did take a concessionary contract.

Have these pilots once cried about tsa, mesa, and chataqua pilots stealing our UAL contract/jobs?

Damm straight they did! As well they should have.
Does AWAC have a jumpseat agreement with the hojet pukes?

So please, turn the finger around on yourself and let it go already.

Just let it go huh? I guess if you can't beat 'em, join 'em huh? Let bygones be bygones, and stand on the sidelines as your career swirls down the sewer drain.

 

[rtmcfi]

Exactly. Ex-blueridger myself. Shoe's on the other foot and they dont like it, welcome to the lovely community of aviation!!!! Im just glad I got out of the regional world after ACA. (I had a blast there, but couldnt convince myself to go anywhere else)

Sounds like now that you got out of the regional world, you think it no longer affects you. Do you really care one way or the other what happens to the regional guys?

 

[Motive Flow]

You hit the nail on the head! ... GJ pilots are just doing the same as you have. So please, turn the finger around on yourself and let it go already.

JC

Do a search. This point has been answered many times.

 

[jimchi]

Sounds like now that you got out of the regional world, you think it no longer affects you. Do you really care one way or the other what happens to the regional guys?

What is done is done. Witch hunting GJ pilots is not going to correct the lackluster of QOL and pay at regional airlines. Just put time in, pay your dues, and move on to a better place.

As a side note, I do stand corrrected relative to concessions. ACA and AirWisc. did take concessions. However, the concessions still left us in the upper tier of ALPA regional airline contracts, no where near tsa, mesa, and chataqua. ...with that said...

ACA was a great place for new pilots, just starting their professional pilot career. ACA offered reasonable pay, great training, and great work group to be a part of. If it wasn't for a series of events such as 911, UAL Ch. 11, and tsa, mesa, and chataqua bidding on our work, ACA may have still been in business and aspiring pilots of today could've had a nice airline to start their careers with.

Again, for the most part, regionals are breeding grounds for majors. Deal with it. So please, stop your silly belly aching. Get over this GJ thing and concentrate on logging some exceptional flight time and move on to a better airline. And when you do, you better tell your bottom feeder low ballin regional airline management, in a nice way to, "F-off, I'm outta here bit#hes!" Again, don't blame GJ pilots, they're just like you, aspiring PILOTS looking for $$$ and QOL. Blame the sharks in management, the industry, macro economics, and Osama.

JC out

Ps. UAL, DAL, CAL, NWA, UPS, Netjets, XO jet, Cathay, Singapore, ANA, NCA, and JetBlue are hiring. Why not throw your app in?

 

[regionaltard]

Thank you. Now can you tell me what these lesions on my peni$ are?

Uh, maybe evidence that you shouldn't be sticking it through holes in bathroom stalls when you're out for a night with the boys?

 

[redbook]

Gojet pilots have proven that they will do anything, i.e circumvent seniority and join an alter ego.

If that is the type of pilot you want at the airline you work at, then more power to you.

To the posters who say, "I got screwed, so should you! That is aviation", is that what you really want in this career?

More justifications for bad behavior.

 

[jimchi]

redbook,

If that's your logic, then shouldn't the pilots that work for tsa, mesa, and chataqua be shunned from the industry? Is that what you're saying?? what what??

You can better the career by doing this.
1. find a higher paying flying job w/ better QOL.
2. quit your low ball regional airline
3. tell your friends not to apply there and spread the word.
4. If given the chance, vote for a strike.

At least the above is more effective in sending a message to airline execs. and management to not f*ck with your livelyhood. Hunting for GJ pilots is not.

 

[redbook]

redbook,

If that's your logic, then shouldn't the pilots that work for tsa, mesa, and chataqua be shunned from the industry? Is that what you're saying?? what what??

You can better the career by doing this.
1. find a higher paying flying job w/ better QOL.
2. quit your low ball regional airline
3. tell your friends not to apply there and spread the word.
4. If given the chance, vote for a strike.

At least the above is more effective in sending a message to airline execs. and management to not f*ck with your livelyhood. Hunting for GJ pilots is not.

Jim,

I agree with your four listed points. The fundamental difference is distinguishing between an alter ego carrier, gojet, and the pilots who knowingly joined it, and the rest of the industry.

Judging from the rest of your post, I highly doubt that you would want a group of alter ego pilots to join your carrier. How would the Fed Ex pilots, UPS, DAL, XYZ airline react to an alter ego threat and the pilots that joined it? I am sure some people will be "world weary" and "cynical" and claim, "oh, all those other carriers are alter ego carriers anyway." That argument just does not hold water.

I don't think the strong response to alter ego gojet is overdone or a surprise.

 

[brainhurts]

Uh, maybe evidence that you shouldn't be sticking it through holes in bathroom stalls when you're out for a night with the boys?

No, I'm not a regional pilot so we don't do that, but if it's your thing, you should wear a condom.

 

[A350]

Pot meet kettle.

My arguement all along has been that this is just a continuation of the same thing for years.

The day an RJ overflew a hub city or replaced a mainline jet is the day the horse left the barn. It was done by regional pilots looking out for themselves and not for the greater good of the profession and I dare say not being good stewards of their own careers.

Today the average regional pilot will never get out...for two simple reasons. There are HALF the mainline jobs there used to be and second, their pay would be cut in HALF if they left and it would take years to recover. This is the world we live in.

While I cannot condone the tone of the post quoted, I dare say he is taunting the GJ haters because he can get a rise out of them. Do we have self serving buttheads at JB? I believe we do, just like every other airline out there. Doing your best to haunt them will only hurt your own career (ask the guy who "defended" the profession at the JB open house) and further, it only furthers the divide between groups which in turn, gives management a woody. In your world, if mainline pilots,who saw their pensions and careers go up in smoke after 9/11 while regional pilots had a field day had their way, every regional pilot would be called a scumbag and rejected from employment with the mainline. My point is that they don't because they are professionals and they realize it is business, plain and simple.

It has been like this for years now and everyone is still surprised and hateful....I have news for you. This type of thing is happening all over the industry. One group stepping over another for flying.

A350

 

[LearLove]

Pot meet kettle.

My arguement all along has been that this is just a continuation of the same thing for years.

The day an RJ overflew a hub city or replaced a mainline jet is the day the horse left the barn. It was done by regional pilots looking out for themselves and not for the greater good of the profession and I dare say not being good stewards of their own careers.

hey buddy, I think you may want to rethink that statement........

Who was it and which generation of pilots let the rj flying go to the regionals? It certinatly wasn't my generation (30 to early 40ies guys) that was at the helm in the early 90's when this RJ thing first came about.


As for the GJ issue: I've said this before and I'll say it again....

The fact of the matter has nothing to do with "stealing flying" or another "lowering the bar regional". The issue at hand involving GJ is that a group of several hundred professional pilots (TSA in this case) were presented with an employment situation which went against the contract they agreed to work under. Thus they (the TSA pilots) decided to not accept the terms and made an agreement only to have others come in and undermine the effort.

 

[Captzaahlie]

Pot meet kettle.

My arguement all along has been that this is just a continuation of the same thing for years.

The day an RJ overflew a hub city or replaced a mainline jet is the day the horse left the barn. It was done by regional pilots looking out for themselves and not for the greater good of the profession and I dare say not being good stewards of their own careers.

Today the average regional pilot will never get out...for two simple reasons. There are HALF the mainline jobs there used to be and second, their pay would be cut in HALF if they left and it would take years to recover. This is the world we live in.

While I cannot condone the tone of the post quoted, I dare say he is taunting the GJ haters because he can get a rise out of them. Do we have self serving buttheads at JB? I believe we do, just like every other airline out there. Doing your best to haunt them will only hurt your own career (ask the guy who "defended" the profession at the JB open house) and further, it only furthers the divide between groups which in turn, gives management a woody. In your world, if mainline pilots,who saw their pensions and careers go up in smoke after 9/11 while regional pilots had a field day had their way, every regional pilot would be called a scumbag and rejected from employment with the mainline. My point is that they don't because they are professionals and they realize it is business, plain and simple.

It has been like this for years now and everyone is still surprised and hateful....I have news for you. This type of thing is happening all over the industry. One group stepping over another for flying.

A350

Very well said.....
I finally saw the light and will give up much better than avg. regional pay.... but it will hurt for a good year and a half. Thank God for an interview with a real airline that went pretty well last week. I'll need to mention to the post man that I just might go postal myself if I see him bring me "a letter" from xyz airlines.......
Back to my intended rant:
Even "our" mainline sucked concessions out of us commuter dudes and pitted us against a wholly owned sister company just to F-us in the end. Then on top of it mainline management has close to 50 % of the flying going to out sources (Amazingly one of those groups who had to make investments ot fly for us thought "they" were due a flow through agreement too! just for flying for the company that made the investment.....) WTF over?
A Trans States buddy of mine completely bitched about gojets being whores etc. etc.........
I had to remind him that "all" the contract carriers are out there whoring themselves out to various mainlines. He got real quiet because he knows that he dose flying for 3 separate companies! One day he stands on the Ual corner the next week it's Usair, then it may be DAL the following (if I remember correctly????) (BTW we are still great friends but the truth is the truth) Hell that's as bad as MESA as far as I'm concerned, sure it's business but it sucks that some of us love flying so much that we all had to bend over for each of the entry level guys getting in on the action. What's the solution? I'm not sure, maybe when a crew with 500 hrs tt between them stuffs an RJ into a hard object partially due to reduced rest and a proceeding week of 14 hr duty days the public might become aware of whats going on in the industry and the FAA might jerk themselves off into doing something about it...........

Ok I feel better, goodnight all! uke:

 

[delivery100]

I am absolutely amazed that people can compare what the Go Jet pilots did to FCUK there fellow pilot to what other regionals did to carriers like ACA. It is a 100% a different thing. GOJET Pilots FCUKED their fellow Trans States pilots PERIOD for their Self Serving agenda. To compare this with Mesa undercutting ACA to win a contract is completely and totally ABSURD!!! I Will never forget what GOJETS pilots did to FCUK their brothers....Ever..They are scum pilots and I will do everything in my power to make sure they never work for any other airline.

 

[fxbat]

I was going to go on about TSA and Eagle. But I don't see the point.
Life is to short, move on. Let things work themselves out.

 

[A350]

Lear:

I am not referring to when ALPA carriers allowed regional airlines to get RJ's.....there was and IMO will always be markets that are prime RJ markets. However, after 9/11, airline management fell all over themselves taking flying from the mainline pilots and gave it to whomever would do it the cheapest. Hence the statement about RJ's flying mainline routes and overflying hubs.
Then the RJ got bigger and bigger. Did it really take a savant to figure that if every mainline 100 seater disappeared in favor of regional airline 100 seaters that the profession would melt down? Half the regional carriers have multiple mainline code shares. While this insulates them from mainline meltdowns and gives them diversification of revenue streams, it plays right into the hand of management when it comes to playing one group off on another.

The GoJet thing wasn't the first alter ego....Old Frank pulled it with NYAir. Those NYAir guys are all 777 CA's for CAL and ALPA members to boot.

Anyone who has an idea of how to stop it should let the rest of us in on the secret. Until the, I suggest to learn to live with it.

A350

 

[Shrek]

I interviewed alongside a GoJeter last month...He stuck out like the proverbial sore thumb, pensive, defensive, secretive. He was weeded out. They hired the two Trans States loyalists instead. What goes around comes around.

GOOD to hear..........NEVER FORGET

 

[J Dawg]

Lear:

I am not referring to when ALPA carriers allowed regional airlines to get RJ's.....there was and IMO will always be markets that are prime RJ markets. However, after 9/11, airline management fell all over themselves taking flying from the mainline pilots and gave it to whomever would do it the cheapest. Hence the statement about RJ's flying mainline routes and overflying hubs.

A350

I think he is referring to your comment about regional pilots only looking out for themselves and not the good of the profession. If that is the case, one can turn right around and point a finger at the legacy guys as well for scoping out their flying in exchange for hefty raises.

Take United for example. Pilots got 35% raise in the Summer of 2000 (and almost ruined their airline in the process). Management got scope relief for 235 RJs. Would it have been reasonable to United pilots for a 20% raise and no scope relief? During the following downturn, those nice 35% raises went bye bye, but the RJs stayed. And where was ALPA in all this?

So who is it you are accusing of only looking out for themselves?

 

[J32driver]

It absolutely amazes me how many pilots in this country don't understand what GoJets is. And it equally amazes me that someone would lump the rest of the regional industry in with "specialized union busters".

Gojets exists to force contract concessions on TransStates pilots. Thats it! They are an alter-ego carrier and the the pilots... well... to quote Frank Doss...."I wouldn't pi$$ on them if they were on fire!"

There are alot of folks out there who are trying to excuse GoJets when they are inexcusable. Every last one of you should be ashamed!

 

[A350]

Dawg:

I don't hold the regional pilots any more accountable for the demise of the profession than anyone else, including the mainline guys.....

What I have been saying all along is that the minions who would crucify someone else for what they perceive as a wrong should look around....there is plenty of blame to go around and noone is blameless. We did this to ourselves. The reaction to this wrong is what I get POed about.

Go ahead and let it eat at you forever. It serves no purpose. Even the line crossers from previous ALPA battles are better off than the average union pilot. It's a fact.

A350

 

[regionaltard]

No, I'm not a regional pilot so we don't do that, but if it's your thing, you should wear a condom.

Hmmm....I guess that flying mainline aircraft for sub-regional wages makes you the guy on the other side of the hole, doesn't it?

 

[slackass]

Pot meet kettle.

My arguement all along has been that this is just a continuation of the same thing for years.

The day an RJ overflew a hub city or replaced a mainline jet is the day the horse left the barn. It was done by regional pilots looking out for themselves and not for the greater good of the profession and I dare say not being good stewards of their own careers.

Today the average regional pilot will never get out...for two simple reasons. There are HALF the mainline jobs there used to be and second, their pay would be cut in HALF if they left and it would take years to recover. This is the world we live in.

While I cannot condone the tone of the post quoted, I dare say he is taunting the GJ haters because he can get a rise out of them. Do we have self serving buttheads at JB? I believe we do, just like every other airline out there. Doing your best to haunt them will only hurt your own career (ask the guy who "defended" the profession at the JB open house) and further, it only furthers the divide between groups which in turn, gives management a woody. In your world, if mainline pilots,who saw their pensions and careers go up in smoke after 9/11 while regional pilots had a field day had their way, every regional pilot would be called a scumbag and rejected from employment with the mainline. My point is that they don't because they are professionals and they realize it is business, plain and simple.

It has been like this for years now and everyone is still surprised and hateful....I have news for you. This type of thing is happening all over the industry. One group stepping over another for flying.

A350

How about those pilots that accepted the first B-Scale wage jobs? Same thing. Coming from another career, I've never seen a group talk so much about solidarity and sticking together only to throw each other under the bus and pull the ladder up after themselves when things get tough. This is the business you and I picked. The bed is made now lie in it.

 

[brainhurts]

Hmmm....I guess that flying mainline aircraft for sub-regional wages makes you the guy on the other side of the hole, doesn't it?

Ah, Regionaltard,.......
Having pangs of guilt about your part in the fall of the profession again? I see......you'll just take your training in an rj........bringing down the industry.....causing guys at the majors to get furloughed or look for other employment--like me--and then you move "up" and look down on guys you displaced!!! The perfect picture of an ostrich with his head in a hole, ass in the air humming a tune of superiority. Keep humming dude. The wheel will turn again.
I'm pretty happy with the $90+k and the days off. It gives me time to reel in the real cash from my other fun job. You really should see someone about your obsession with homoerotic illusions--or just come out of the closet and be honest with yourself.

 

[regionaltard]

Ah, Regionaltard,.......
Having pangs of guilt about your part in the fall of the profession again? I see......you'll just take your training in an rj........bringing down the industry.....causing guys at the majors to get furloughed or look for other employment--like me--and then you move "up" and look down on guys you displaced!!! The perfect picture of an ostrich with his head in a hole, ass in the air humming a tune of superiority. Keep humming dude. The wheel will turn again.
I'm pretty happy with the $90+k and the days off. It gives me time to reel in the real cash from my other fun job. You really should see someone about your obsession with homoerotic illusions--or just come out of the closet and be honest with yourself.

Last time I checked you were the one who brought up the subject of diseased di¢ks, in an autobiographical sense. I think the whole premise of this thread is hilarious-Jet Blue pilots giving a rip about a GoJetter? C'mon.....

 

[Shrek]

You hit the nail on the head! GoJet haters, do you not see the irony in your rants? All of you from mesa, tsa, skywest, and chatauqua, that complain about GJ are just as guilty in "stealing jobs" and "lowering the bar". But hey, you did it in the name of a quick upgrade, recieving jet experience, needed a job right? Kinda like GJ pilots....

ACA and Air Wisc. were the highest paid commuter pilots at one point. The point before UAL sought contracts w/ regionals that had substandard pilot contracts compared to ACA and Air Wisc. Pilots of ACA and Air Wisc. were asked for concessions, yet voted no to preserve regional pilot pay. Of course, the pilots of mesa, chataqua, and tsa did nothing to stop the "lowering of the bar".

So, where are the pilots of ACA and Air Wisc. today? ACA pilots are scattered about, Air Wisc. pilots are still flying under a relatively above average ALPA contract w/ UsAir. Have these pilots once cried about tsa, mesa, and chataqua pilots stealing our UAL contract/jobs? Perhaps, but not as much as you GJ haters have. GJ pilots are just doing the same as you have. So please, turn the finger around on yourself and let it go already.

JC

I must have not gotten that internal memo from Hulas asking what rate to bid on flying......my bad.

BTW just look at their stellar contract and judge for yourself who has lowered the bar. At least TSA pilots were trying to stop it from going any lower........let's compare contracts side-by-side when it is all said and done - I think you will be surprised.

To equate a TSA brother to a GJ pilot on equal terms just proves what little understanding you have of this business......

 

[brainhurts]

Last time I checked you were the one who brought up the subject of diseased di¢ks, in an autobiographical sense. I think the whole premise of this thread is hilarious-Jet Blue pilots giving a rip about a GoJetter? C'mon.....

Dude, I had no idea what a GoJetter was before this thread. I apologize for making a humorous comment about peni$es. I should have known this would be a topic that you just couldn't let go of.......couldn't pass by......without dragging in little boys and holes in restroom dividers that make up so much of your life. Again, its never too late for help.

 

[regionaltard]

Dude, I had no idea what a GoJetter was before this thread. I apologize for making a humorous comment about peni$es. I should have known this would be a topic that you just couldn't let go of.......couldn't pass by......without dragging in little boys and holes in restroom dividers that make up so much of your life. Again, its never too late for help.

Let's just say that a Jet Blue pilot spitting out the word "regional" like an epithet is pretty ironic and leave it at that, OK?

 

[Spectre]

Do you understand the difference between employed and unemployed? Because it is a huge difference. Put aside the mergers and all the jetblue pilots taking recall to AA,USAir,UAL,NWA,etc, and there are MANY - you DO understand the difference
between employed and unemployed?
Right?
So given that very important distinction, can you please explain how these recalls would be employed without an ALPA contract and would you please explain how the Jetblue pilots hope to remain employed without a union contract. I don't care about seniority list - I'm just talking about keeping your job.
And if these Jetblue pilots become unemployed through a merger with a union airline, will you come here an support your wise comments?
Will you back your speculation?
Or will you say, "that's how it goes in the airline industry. You shouldn't have given two shts about what I said anyway.?"

Ummm, I gave up my seniority number at NWA, not gonna go back to fly the Diesel 9 on reserve. I don't think as many guys are leaving here to go back to a legacy carrier that had once said "bye-bye, we'll call you back when we need you again."

Half my class were USAir furloughed and not one is leaving JetBlue to go back. I can see if you live at base where one might leave. Unless you had a lot of seniority before you were furloughed, I don't see the mass numbers you are talking about. Guys who were furloughed in 2001-2002 are all Captains here now. The only ones who will be going to legacy carriers from JetBlue are new hires when the legacies start hiring again.

In my eyes, that's a mistake. Because even though JetBlue is slowing down its growth, it is STILL taking delivery of new airplanes and growing at 8%. Most legacies are in negative growth mode. They are not ordering very many airplanes and retiring many old ones. You would see the left seat maybe in 10 years. Throw in age 65 retirement, and you can get very comfortable making nothing in the right seat for a very, very long time.

 

[JA-601]

Go-Jetters

To all Jetblue Guys - We need to email Verna and put an end to all GOjetters now ! I've sent mine I reccomend you do the same !

 

[Golden Falcon]

As usual the rabble rousers get it wrong....company sets up an alter-ego company and hires around its employees...instead of the TSA guys befriending the G-jet guys and getting them on their side and together making managements ploy a defeat...you behave as planned by management and the ploy is successful...pilots are thier own worst enemy