For All You FLOPS BJ Pilots, a little memory lane action

[993_Pilot]

The real problems with the airlines, is their business model. Management at most majors won't change it, so they falter and occasionally fail. SWA uses a different model, and they have been very successful because of it. It doesn't mean that they are immune from the economy (or other market forces), but they are still in much better shape than most.

 

[B19 Flyer]

When was the last time American declared bankruptcy?

American was on the courthouse stairs when the union (APA) decided in the eleventh hour it was in their best interest to decide their own fate rather than have the bankrupcty judge do it for them. DAL wasn't even close to filing for another 18 months, and it could have been avoided even then had DALPA responded in a timely manner.

 

[B19 Flyer]

The real problems with the airlines, is their business model. Management at most majors won't change it, so they falter and occasionally fail. SWA uses a different model, and they have been very successful because of it. It doesn't mean that they are immune from the economy (or other market forces), but they are still in much better shape than most.

Southwest can't compete with legacy carriers and they don't try to. They smartly stay within their niche. They only fly domestic with a single fleet type to CAT I mins. Yes, a smart and profitable business model.

International legacy carriers fly to CAT 3 (incurring addtional training, maintenance and crew costs) using multiple fleet types to ICAO standards worldwide. They have 75 years worth of retirement and pensions to deal with.

The Jetblue/SWA model can't be compared. Apples and oranges.

Long term fall back of the frac model is yet to be tested, but for the first time the current FAA 91 frac requirements and costs are coming into play. Fracs require sales to expand, they can't rely only on user fees. If the sales level at NJ pulls down, and these companies with high level executives continue to be criticized as the auto execs and CEO pay have recently been, there will be a ripple that will drill down and into the "growth" core of the model that NJ has enjoyed unlimited growth with that supports the "industry leading contract."

 

[fischman]

American was on the courthouse stairs when the union (APA) decided in the eleventh hour it was in their best interest to decide their own fate rather than have the bankruptcy judge do it for them. DAL wasn't even close to filing for another 18 months, and it could have been avoided even then had DALPA responded in a timely manner.

Oh! I'm sorry. I didn't get an ANSWER. When was the last time American declared bankruptcy?


(I went ahead and fixed all your spelling errors for you. You're welcome).

 

[993_Pilot]

Southwest can't compete with legacy carriers and they don't try to. They smartly stay within their niche. They only fly domestic with a single fleet type to CAT I mins. Yes, a smart and profitable business model.

International legacy carriers fly to CAT 3 (incurring addtional training, maintenance and crew costs) using multiple fleet types to ICAO standards worldwide. They have 75 years worth of retirement and pensions to deal with.

The Jetblue/SWA model can't be compared. Apples and oranges.

Long term fall back of the frac model is yet to be tested, but for the first time the current FAA 91 frac requirements and costs are coming into play. Fracs require sales to expand, they can't rely only on user fees. If the sales level at NJ pulls down, and these companies with high level executives continue to be criticized as the auto execs and CEO pay have recently been, there will be a ripple that will drill down and into the "growth" core of the model that NJ has enjoyed unlimited growth with that supports the "industry leading contract."

My point is that SWA has carved out a profitable niche for themselves, instead of copying the legacy carriers business model. If a fractional's business model depends on continued growth for profitability, then it is doomed to fail too, although I'm sure you'll blame that on the unions. Every market reaches maturity at some point (like now), and unless they adapt their business model to find profit elsewhere, it will fail. Period. Why is it that the main way that managers try to adapt, is cut expenses. . . usually by cutting payroll? Try raising your prices to something above what the service actually costs to provide, then differentiate yourself from the competition by providing better service. Of course that is tough to do with disgruntled employees !

 

[brokeflyer]

My point is that SWA has carved out a profitable niche for themselves, instead of copying the legacy carriers business model. If a fractional's business model depends on continued growth for profitability, then it is doomed to fail too, although I'm sure you'll blame that on the unions. Every market reaches maturity at some point (like now), and unless they adapt their business model to find profit elsewhere, it will fail. Period. Why is it that the main way that managers try to adapt, is cut expenses. . . usually by cutting payroll? Try raising your prices to something above what the service actually costs to provide, then differentiate yourself from the competition by providing better service. Of course that is tough to do with disgruntled employees !

It makes it impossible because of management sucking all the profits from the company. I heard somewhere that the CEO of delta's paycheck was MORE than what the whole company took in for profit!!!!OMFG.

Ya can't raise prices or alter your business because management needs to take that money for themselves......that is undisputed fact. Sorry.

 

[dime line]

It makes it impossible because of management sucking all the profits from the company.

I heard somewhere that the CEO of delta's paycheck was MORE than what the whole company took in for profit!!!!OMFG.

Ya can't raise prices or alter your business because management needs to take that money for themselves......that is undisputed fact. Sorry.

No that was Tilton at United in 2006, he took in a cool 40mil that year and the company took in a cool 25mil

 

[brokeflyer]

thanks for the correction....

40mil?.......no wonder we need unions.

40mil?......and they have guys on furlough, or making crap wages.

 

[B19 Flyer]

No that was Tilton at United in 2006, he took in a cool 40mil that year and the company took in a cool 25mil

Maybe there is some irony that a heavily unionized carrier like United had a CEO that took 40 million in 2006 while the CEO of a lightly unionized carrier in Atlanta (DAL) took a pay cut from his 2005 salary of $500,000 and didn't accept his final 3 months pay of $125,000.

 

[fischman]

Oh! I'm sorry. I didn't get an ANSWER. When was the last time American declared bankruptcy?


(I went ahead and fixed all your spelling errors for you. You're welcome).

What do you know? No answer. Where's the lie B19?