For All You FLOPS BJ Pilots, a little memory lane action

[B19 Flyer]

Sure does. Perhaps it is time for a recurrent?

If I could I would fischman. But I would stay in management just the same. Flying isn't as much of a challenge when there are pilots like you out there to be managed.

 

[brokeflyer]

lol.....funny stuff there.

Since im an A&P as well, I can determine airworthiness....mmmuuuhhhaaa

 

[993_Pilot]

"bad luck." That's funny.

I heard it was incompetence. Was it you?

I ran the spell checker for you too. You're welcome.

The problem was whether it was "bad luck" or incompetence, the real problem was the attempted cover-up/failure to report it, which could have jeopardized another crews safety! Quite frankly if what I heard is true, he should be outed by name!

 

[fischman]

The operation, not the airworthiness.

Now you are arguing semantics. The bottom line is that the airplane doesn't move until I'm happy. End of story. Thanks for playing.

 

[fischman]

If I could I would fischman. But I would stay in management just the same. Flying isn't as much of a challenge when there are pilots like you out there to be managed.

Yeah, I'm a REAL handful.

This is why you are a bad manager. You think the pilots at your company work for YOU. They don't. YOU work for THEM. The PILOT is the ones out on the road making the magic happen. YOU are there to give them the support and resources required to do a good job.

The pilots don't need you do to have a job. YOU have a job because of the pilots. (I bet that eats away at your soul, being dependent on a bunch of lowly pilots. BWAAHAHAHA.)

If you haven't noticed, I, nor anyone else on these boards (except maybe skanza), isn't bullied by your scare tactics.

 

[fischman]

Yes, your quote of 91.3 is correct, but it doesn't include performing maintenance. We trust those people as our passengers trust us. Get over it.

I never said anything about performing maintenance. If there is an engine change, and I'm concerned about the work done, I'm going to ask the mechanic to take the cowling off and show what I need to see to be comfortable.

If he, or NetJets doesn't like it, they can airline in another pilot to take the flight. It will then be up to that pilot as to if the flight will go.

I'm not going to take off until I and my crew are 100% comfortable with the condition of the plane, and 100% ready to go.

That is the safety culture we have at NetJets, and what our owners pay for.

Having said all that, if I go to these extremes I am going to need a valid reason for refusing a trip. I'm not going to these extremes every time, but every now and then, there is those little red flags that go up, and the hair stands up on the back of your neck, and you get short of breath.

That is when I start asking questions. That is what I get paid to do. Fly planes SAFELY.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Keep up the good work!

Yeah, I'm a REAL handful.

This is why you are a bad manager. You think the pilots at your company work for YOU. They don't. YOU work for THEM. The PILOT is the ones out on the road making the magic happen. YOU are there to give them the support and resources required to do a good job.

The pilots don't need you do to have a job. YOU have a job because of the pilots. (I bet that eats away at your soul, being dependent on a bunch of lowly pilots. BWAAHAHAHA.)

If you haven't noticed, I, nor anyone else on these boards (except maybe skanza), isn't bullied by your scare tactics.

On the contrary, you really don't know what kind of manager I am. But if we were in the same company, you would be happy I was there.

By the way, I don't have a job because of pilots. They have jobs because at some point somebody undertook the incredible risk associated with starting an air carrier. Your attitude completely undercuts his efforts.

Maintainance slowdowns go back for decades and the pilots who conduct them are always identified as jerks to everybody in the company, even after the CBA is settled. That stigma never goes away.

Do as you please fischman, place your standards on something that has a different set of standards. As long as you can explain it later in court, you might be OK. My guess is that the judge will accept the manufacturer's standards before yours. Keep up the good work! :beer:

 

[brokeflyer]

My guess is that the judge will accept the manufacturer's standards before yours.

They would have to change regulations for that to happen.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Why is it so hard for you or anybody else to understand those facts?

They would have to change regulations for that to happen.

Broke, the judges have already sided with the company on this subject, and I've told you how they did it. You're wrong on this.

The company trended the data, compared it against posts on public and union message boards, isolated the statistical outliers, identified the pilots and successfully got the court injunction.

That has been done twice over the last 10 years, and both times the union and individual pilots were ordered to cease the activity.

Why is it so hard for you or anybody else to understand those facts?

 

[brokeflyer]

What I mean is I have the final authority. That is written in the regs. It's like saying you are charged with parking your car in your own garage. You jealous neighbor hates it, but it's legal. Or, "christians against Christ".....it just don't make sence.

I dont know, Ive been flying for 30+ years and when I write something up it gets fixed. No questions asked. Of all the crap out there, the one thing management learned from me is dont fck with me on saftey and write ups.

Maybe it's something else but I've never had any problems writing up planes.

 

[B19 Flyer]

What I mean is I have the final authority. That is written in the regs. It's like saying you are charged with parking your car in your own garage. You jealous neighbor hates it, but it's legal. Or, "christians against Christ".....it just don't make sence.

I dont know, Ive been flying for 30+ years and when I write something up it gets fixed. No questions asked. Of all the crap out there, the one thing management learned from me is dont fck with me on saftey and write ups.

Maybe it's something else but I've never had any problems writing up planes.

All I'm doing broke is letting you know that when a work slowdown happens that's how they trend it and pin the guys/unions to the wall. Lists like this are poison to use in a union action and don't help a soul.

 

[Hobbes]

Engine plug?

The problem was whether it was "bad luck" or incompetence, the real problem was the attempted cover-up/failure to report it, which could have jeopardized another crews safety! Quite frankly if what I heard is true, he should be outed by name!

Engine plug Ed may be outed by name, who knows? Bottom line is he acted EXTREMELY irresponsibly with relation to regs, common sense, all accepted safety practices, and management seemed to turn a blind eye.

 

[993_Pilot]

Engine plug Ed may be outed by name, who knows? Bottom line is he acted EXTREMELY irresponsibly with relation to regs, common sense, all accepted safety practices, and management seemed to turn a blind eye.

Remember the days when "Earl the Pearl" flew around for about three days having to manually extend the gear in the Challenger because it wouldn't come down the normal way? When KC found out about it, he was immediately fired. KC was the only "management pilot" that actually respected the regs as well as the rank & file pilot. It's too bad he found a better job, I miss those days!

 

[Hobbes]

Earl the dunce...

Yeah, I remember that all too well...and another good pilot got screwed over by that after mx asked him to return the plane directly to CGF gear down, but never issued a ferry permit...

These are the kinds of idiots mgmt (INCLUDING people like B19) love to use and abuse until they are cornered and then they will discipline them and wash their own hands. You think Flops mismanagement team had no idea how often and flagrantly Earl would break both the regs and common safety practices? Sh!t just look at his logged time...25-28 days in a row flying trips...Duty days in the range of 15-20 hours regularly...How often would he write things up?

Just like B19 will try to instill fear in those not cauterized against it that they will somehow be targeted for writing things up...a good inspector from the FAA will catch people like Earl, Ed, and others who always seem to show up at a maintenance base with everything breaking all at once.

Bottom line - if it is broke, or appears broke - write it up and get it examined before flight...that is not a slowdown campaign, that is your J.O.B. If the mechanic signs it off airworthy and you agree, then fly...if you disagree, the be a man and DISAGREE and get more info before you go airborne.

 

[Tristar]

Sorry this is late in coming, but I just found this rather entertaining thread. I just can't believe you all have left this one for me:

Originally Posted by brokeflyer
dude you need to go get yourself laid....it'll do ya a lotta good.

To which Skanza replied:

ok--meet me by the dumpster.

Why, is that where you usually wait on your knees?

I'm rather amused at the permutations Skeezer and D19 go to attempting to justify why a pilot is not permitted to write an item up which is apparently not airworthy. It just goes to prove that there are always dirtballs who will fly any piece of junk for anything (or nothing).

 

[B19 Flyer]

I encourage you to play those silly union games

Sorry this is late in coming, but I just found this rather entertaining thread. I just can't believe you all have left this one for me:

To which Skanza replied:
Why, is that where you usually wait on your knees?

I'm rather amused at the permutations Skeezer and D19 go to attempting to justify why a pilot is not permitted to write an item up which is apparently not airworthy. It just goes to prove that there are always dirtballs who will fly any piece of junk for anything (or nothing).

Once again, I encourage you to play those silly union games. I have never stated that an item shouldn't be written up if it's unairworthy.

Now, when airworthy items are written up as un-airworthy using standards not created by the company or the manufacturer (the ones that detirmine the intended use) it does create a different scenario and isn't that what we are really talking about here?

Those that love to abuse their PIC rights are entitled to be trended and sanctioned by the company and the courts. All I'm doing is giving you the inside story on how they are going to catch you.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Yeah, I remember that all too well...and another good pilot got screwed over by that after mx asked him to return the plane directly to CGF gear down, but never issued a ferry permit...

These are the kinds of idiots mgmt (INCLUDING people like B19) love to use and abuse until they are cornered and then they will discipline them and wash their own hands. You think Flops mismanagement team had no idea how often and flagrantly Earl would break both the regs and common safety practices? Sh!t just look at his logged time...25-28 days in a row flying trips...Duty days in the range of 15-20 hours regularly...How often would he write things up?

Just like B19 will try to instill fear in those not cauterized against it that they will somehow be targeted for writing things up...a good inspector from the FAA will catch people like Earl, Ed, and others who always seem to show up at a maintenance base with everything breaking all at once.

Bottom line - if it is broke, or appears broke - write it up and get it examined before flight...that is not a slowdown campaign, that is your J.O.B. If the mechanic signs it off airworthy and you agree, then fly...if you disagree, the be a man and DISAGREE and get more info before you go airborne.

Spoken like the hero you are.

 

[Hobbes]

Hear, hear!

Spoken like the hero you are.

That's the first credible sentence I have ever seen you post. Nice job. Build on that and you may be on the road to recovery. Baby steps though buddy...if you pay real close attention, someday you MAY start to see some sense.

 

[skanza]

watch out, I'm quoting B19..oh no!!!

Once again, I encourage you to play those silly union games. I have never stated that an item shouldn't be written up if it's unairworthy.

Now, when airworthy items are written up as un-airworthy using standards not created by the company or the manufacturer (the ones that detirmine the intended use) it does create a different scenario and isn't that what we are really talking about here?

Those that love to abuse their PIC rights are entitled to be trended and sanctioned by the company and the courts. All I'm doing is giving you the inside story on how they are going to catch you.

That's pretty much what I'm saying. I have not ever suggested not to write something up that is broken. Rather, not to write something up that isn't broken. You all know it happens, look in the mirror. And as far as carrying squawks goes: waiting until you get to a MX base is as bad as waiting until you are at a place where you know there's no MX then writing it up. You all know the latter happens too. Where you are, how the union negotiations are going, and your hate for managment should have no bearing on what, if anything, gets written up. But again, you all know this happens too.
Typical.

 

[skanza]

lol.....funny stuff there.

Since im an A&P as well, I can determine airworthiness....mmmuuuhhhaaa

Well, you may be an A&P, but your capacity with the company is ATP. Having an A&P doesn't automatically allow you to perform maintenance and determine airworthiness, especially on a 135 aircraft. You should know that, Mr. Mechanic.