FO/Flex how would you vote to integrate??

[shanes123]

I do know you. Just cause you claim you don't know or remember me doesn't mean I don't know you and your enough discredit to yourself I actually don't have to do anything. Your post make it very clear that the only priority in your life is yourself

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Shanes,
I think you exposed TWA for what he is. His pay for his constant dribble is some kind of priveledge for him as an individual. And if he has any say about it, he will be the keeper of "The List".
How do you think he has so much time to post?

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

I do know you. Just cause you claim you don't know or remember me doesn't mean I don't know you and your enough discredit to yourself I actually don't have to do anything. Your post make it very clear that the only priority in your life is yourself

Dude I would remember your last name. It isn't that common.

You have been called out (by yourself).

The game is over.

The game of you saying you know me ended when you outed yourself.

The only thing my posts show is my dislike for the IBT. You can spin that anyway you like, but my posts are on here for others to reference.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Shanes,
I think you exposed TWA for what he is. His pay for his constant dribble is some kind of priveledge for him as an individual. And if he has any say about it, he will be the keeper of "The List".
How do you think he has so much time to post?

Are you now going to also claim you know who I am?

You just can't imagine that someone would have a differing opinion than you unless they were getting spoon fed it from a union busting law firm or getting paid to do it.

My opinions on here are my own. There are lots of FJ pilots on here that share my views as you can see from the other posts.

 

[doh]

Dude I would remember your last name. It isn't that common.

You have been called out (by yourself).

The game is over.

The game of you saying you know me ended when you outed yourself.

The only thing my posts show is my dislike for the IBT. You can spin that anyway you like, but my posts are on here for others to reference.

Not quite. You've said nasty things about FO pilots as a group and individuals. And then you've claimed to speak for the rest of us as well. You have made FJ pilots look bad hearted. And you do not speak for me when you speak with that voice.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Not quite. You've said nasty things about FO pilots as a group and individuals. And then you've claimed to speak for the rest of us as well. You have made FJ pilots look bad hearted. And you do not speak for me when you speak with that voice.

As a whole I think the FO pilots are a good group. I don't believe I have ever said anything different.

I have stated again and again that I don't speak for all of the FJ pilots.

The only individual FO pilots I have been unkind to are the ones on here that have attacked me from the beginning. They don't like my views and will do anything they can to discredit and silence me.

Once again, I do NOT think they represent the majority of FO pilots which is what gives me hope for the future of OneSky.

 

[The Architect]

Majority

As a whole I think the FO pilots are a good group. I don't believe I have ever said anything different.

I have stated again and again that I don't speak for all of the FJ pilots.

The only individual FO pilots I have been unkind to are the ones on here that have attacked me from the beginning. They don't like my views and will do anything they can to discredit and silence me.

Once again, I do NOT think they represent the majority of FO pilots which is what gives me hope for the future of OneSky.

So, employees, and in this case pilots, have a right to choose.

And if the MAJORITY wants union representation, then that's what should happen.

If the MAJORITY doesn't want union representation, then that's what should happen.

Either way, if and/or when such a determination has to be put to a vote, the MAJORITY wins.

That should be acceptable.

Agree?

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

So, employees, and in this case pilots, have a right to choose.

And if the MAJORITY wants union representation, then that's what should happen.

If the MAJORITY doesn't want union representation, then that's what should happen.

Either way, if and/or when such a determination has to be put to a vote, the MAJORITY wins.

That should be acceptable.

Agree?

If the NMB rules single carrier there will be a vote.

Whatever the majority vote is will determine if the total group has union representation or not and if so who the union is that represents the group.

I am unsure as to why you are asking me this. I feel it has been stated numerous times.

So yes, pilots have a right to choose. If they didn't there would be no need for a vote.

 

[The Architect]

Confirmation

If the NMB rules single carrier there will be a vote.

Whatever the majority vote is will determine if the total group has union representation or not and if so who the union is that represents the group.

I am unsure as to why you are asking me this. I feel it has been stated numerous times.

So yes, pilots have a right to choose. If they didn't there would be no need for a vote.

There has been discussion about the union "being forced" on Flexjet pilots. If the majority wants union representation, well, would YOU feel that the union was forced on you?

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

There has been discussion about the union "being forced" on Flexjet pilots. If the majority wants union representation, well, would YOU feel that the union was forced on you?

If all of your furloughed pilots get to vote (that depends on their current job status per the NMB) then every FJ pilot could vote no and still have the union represent us. The NMB representation manual does state that furloughed pilots that are regularly working in another craft or class from the one they are furloughed are not eligible to vote. It also states that only furloughed pilots that have a reasonable expectation of returning to work have the right to vote.

I would asume the company will challenge most/all of the furloughed pilots voting rights based on one of these two criteria.

In the case where every FJ pilot would vote no and still be represented by the IBT I would feel it is being forced upon us.

Would you not agree. We got our vote, but they didn't matter.

We might as well not have voted.

 

[slowtation capt]

In the case where every FJ pilot would vote no and still be represented by the IBT I would feel it is being forced upon us.

Do you honestly feel that every single FlexJet pilot would vote no?

 

[The Architect]

Majority is Majority

If all of your furloughed pilots get to vote (that depends on their current job status per the IBT) then every FJ pilot could vote no and still have the union represent us.

In that case, yes I feel that it is being forced on us.

Would you not agree. We got our vote, but they didn't matter.

We might as well not have voted.

Well, let's see. A company acquires another company. The company that does the acquisition decides to merge those companies under one umbrella called OneSky. So, everyone is ultimately working for the same parent.

The ownership and operations (especially with a Single Operating Certificate) would be determined as a single carrier. The company knows that, the government determines that. One happy family.

So, ALL of those employees in class and craft get to vote. The MAJORITY gets their choice. But, YOU don't like it, so it's not fair.

Yes, there is something wrong with that.

Keep in mind. Those unionized pilots at Flight Options didn't acquire Flexjet. The company knew that the majority of the pilot class and craft would be unionized as a result of the acquisition. But you find this unacceptable and don't want to blame the employer. You choose to blame the majority. The unionized pilot group.

One happy family. Not them and us. So, majority rules.

This is how is works around the world. It sounds like it is not acceptable in your world.

 

[The Architect]

Stay on Script

If all of your furloughed pilots get to vote (that depends on their current job status per the NMB) then every FJ pilot could vote no and still have the union represent us. The NMB representation manual does state that furloughed pilots that are regularly working in another craft or class from the one they are furloughed are not eligible to vote. It also states that only furloughed pilots that have a reasonable expectation of returning to work have the right to vote.

I would asume the company will challenge most/all of the furloughed pilots voting rights based on one of these two criteria.

In the case where every FJ pilot would vote no and still be represented by the IBT I would feel it is being forced upon us.

Would you not agree. We got our vote, but they didn't matter.

We might as well not have voted.

Interesting how your reply was amended.

It must be important to stay on script.

-LET ME AMEND THAT-

Or vetting must be a little slow.

 

[V1 Rotate]

Do you honestly feel that every single FlexJet pilot would vote no?

It was a hypothetical in order to make a point. Of course no one believes any group would ever vote 100%. Nice try.

 

[slowtation capt]

It was a hypothetical in order to make a point. Of course no one believes any group would ever vote 100%. Nice try.

If it was hypothetical, then quit saying it's going to get forced on you.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Interesting how your reply was amended.

It must be important to stay on script.

-LET ME AMEND THAT-

Or vetting must be a little slow.

It was amended because I had several typos.

I also originally thought it was IBT policy regarding furloughed pilots voting, but searched and found out it was part of the NMB policy.

If you check, quite a few of my posts are edited due to auto correct and typos.

Edited again for typos.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

If it was hypothetical, then quit saying it's going to get forced on you.

Would there be any % of FJ pilots voting no where you would feel it was being forced on us? 100% 99% 98%? What number makes it ok in your mind?

It is easy to potentially be on the side of the larger pilot group saying how "of course this is fair."

 

[993_Pilot]

Why does anybody continue to engage TWA 2 ASA FO? It is obvious that his mind will never be changed by this dialog, even by those of us being rational and reasonable, never mind the heated exchanges. There are hundreds of us at Options that understand and appreciate the value of union representation, and the fact is that our votes show it. There are a few vocal Flex pilots here on FI who are anti-union, and they are certainly entitled to their opinions, but they don't speak for the majority of the flex pilots. Oh sure, they might think and argue that a vast majority of the rest think like they do, but that is just because the most of them are (wisely) a bit afraid to make themselves a target by openly supporting unionization, especially given the history of what happened during the Travel Air/Flight Options merger. Given time, they will eventually start to see policy changes, and begin to understand why the Options pilots have ultimately voted for representation. Flexjet may not have needed a union under Bombardier's stewardship, but it is a new era, and the IBT it is a far sight better than the alternative under KR & the Directional Capital umbrella. The Options pilots all know that it is probably killing KR not to be able to make the changes that he really wants to, for fear that the Flex pilots will start to see thing the same way that we already do. It may take a little time, but the majority of Flexjets pilots will eventually come to understand this, and no amount of bickering here on FI is really going to change anyone's mind.

 

[slowtation capt]

Would there be any % of FJ pilots voting no where you would feel it was being forced on us? 100% 99% 98%? What number makes it ok in your mind?

It is easy to potentially be on the side of the larger pilot group saying how "of course this is fair."

Then you might as well say that Bombardier is the one that forced the Union on you, by selling you.

 

[warlord19]

993 Pilot et al
I agree that TWA 2 should stop his continual sword fighting with FO…there really is nothing left to discuss.
The Flex “anti-union pilots” you mention are not, I believe, anti-union so much as they are pilot’s who don’t feel a need for a union….if circumstances change for the worst, I believe most of us would come together and vote in a union(hopefully not the 1108). I, and many others I’ve talked with here, don’t see a need for a union now with it’s immediate pay reduction i.e. dues, it’s inevitable decline in work attitudes, service quality, and efficiencies that will follow. You Goobers who post all the lies, half truths, exaggerations, and other BS don’t help your cause. The auto workers in the South, the teachers unions in Wisconson, and many other places are abandoning union membership because they realize what unions are…just another special interest group trying to get your money and then spending that money on themselves and their political cronies.
You say, given time, we will see policy changes here at Flex…..well, DUHHH..if you just put $200M into acquiring a company, would you not put your imprimatur on it. Your fear-mongerring about change is getting a bit long in the tooth and sounds like a bunch of kids in a dark closet afraid to peek out the door. If DAC were to start doing stuff that affects our livelihood and ability to make a descent living I would definitely consider a union. Until then, we are doing just fine without the 1108.
WL