Flowthru alive at LCC?

[trainer8]

Scott Kirby (el presidentay) stated in one of those crew news sessions, that hiring will be done out of the wholly owned boys, it doesn't matter what the ML MEC has to say about it, they don't do the hiring, so they can all lock them selves in closet and spank each other silly! It was already proven with our flight attendants, after recall letters went out to east furloughed FA's to go to the west and they turnde it down , Tempe then went directly to the wholly FA's and offered them the oppurtunity......so

give it a rest

it's the least they can do for how greatly our lives have been at PSA/PDT

Which crew news? Do you know the date?

 

[lindsaya99]

I don't think that his intention to hire from W/O is to reward PDT/PSA pilots. I think it is to be used as a recruiting tool for PDT/PSA HR departments. Staffing the right seat has become more difficult and what is a better incentive that guaranteed flow through? Or maybe I'm smoking something.

 

[WSurf]

I don't think that his intention to hire from W/O is to reward PDT/PSA pilots. I think it is to be used as a recruiting tool for PDT/PSA HR departments. Staffing the right seat has become more difficult and what is a better incentive that guaranteed flow through? Or maybe I'm smoking something.

Bingo! Cause there won't be many senior Captains going after that! For some that could be up 40k a year pay lose. I myself would lose about 20k to go and sit right seat in a 190 for 3-4 years!

 

[ALGFLYR]

Now that was easy. You further furthered my argument further by proving what I said was true:

We followed the protocols. Period.

Man you just don't get it do you? I have tried to explain but you just don't understand what you are reading. The part you quoted from my post DOES NOT PERTAIN TO CEL PILOTS THAT WENT TO MDA.

 

[ALGFLYR]

Scott Kirby (el presidentay) stated in one of those crew news sessions, that hiring will be done out of the wholly owned boys, it doesn't matter what the ML MEC has to say about it, they don't do the hiring, so they can all lock them selves in closet and spank each other silly!

You're absolutly right. The ML MEC cannot say anything about who they hire. But they do control where those new-hires go on the seniority list...

 

[loser]

and your point... don't all new hires go to the bottom of the seniority list? If you are refering to the MDA pilots; from what I understand you now have super seniority over other CEL pilots as a result of not being allowed to return to the WO's, which is only fair.

On a side note everyone assumes that the PDT MEC is responsible for not allowing the the MDA pilots to return. Has anyone considered this scenario:

The intention of the flow was bi-lateral, however the flow back language was never finalized and not agreed to by all parties, including PDT management. That is fact. When MDA was furloughing PDT was not short on pilots and the flow back would have increased PDT's operating cost (training + more senior pilot group). Since PDT management was not yet contractually obligated to allow a flow back, they didn't.

 

[Sig]

Since PDT management was not yet contractually obligated to allow a flow back, they didn't.

And they're totally paying for it now.

 

[General Lee]

Bingo! Cause there won't be many senior Captains going after that! For some that could be up 40k a year pay lose. I myself would lose about 20k to go and sit right seat in a 190 for 3-4 years!

And you would have to fly from your favorite airport---PHL. What about not seeing New Bern very much and not eating as many crawdads from your dock? Will you do it? You could finally fly a jet.........you're thinking about it....I know you are....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[WSurf]

And you would have to fly from your favorite airport---PHL. What about not seeing New Bern very much and not eating as many crawdads from your dock? Will you do it? You could finally fly a jet.........you're thinking about it....I know you are....


Bye Bye--General Lee

Out of PHL!! No way Jose!!

If I am gonna commute two Legs it will be for someone that makes it worth my time! Like UPS or Fedex..... Period! Now if I could just stop fishin and put those crawdads down my FE Written would have already been completed!!

GL! I have been on vaction and still can't put a dent into your post total!! Tell Plyt Im givin it a good effort however!!!

 

[ponder]

.....

 

[NCFlyer]

On a side note everyone assumes that the PDT MEC is responsible for not allowing the the MDA pilots to return. Has anyone considered this scenario:

The intention of the flow was bi-lateral, however the flow back language was never finalized and not agreed to by all parties, including PDT management. That is fact. When MDA was furloughing PDT was not short on pilots and the flow back would have increased PDT's operating cost (training + more senior pilot group). Since PDT management was not yet contractually obligated to allow a flow back, they didn't.

This is a point that has been pointed out time and time again, however many just won't see it.

I personally brought up the flow-back on at least 5 different occasions, including during an open session MEC meeting. The company would take them back was at the bottom of the seniority list. The LOA that stated something about the return of WO pilots, simply stated that WO pilots, if furloughed from MDA would be allowed to return to their respective carrier. It stated no conditions about their return. PDT would have taken the pilots back at the bottom of the list. That would have been technically in compliance with the LOA but completely unfair. I believe that more could have been done to help any pilot who wanted to return to PDT. Those were our co-workers and we left them with no help in a time that they needed it most. Both the PDT MEC & PDT management should be ashamed of how the pilots were treated.

I have stated over and over again, any ALG/PDT pilot that had flowed up to MDA should have been allowed to flow back to PDT under the same conditions that he/she left with 1 additional requirement, that pilot must have been furloughed from MDA. You couldn't be allowed to return just because you changed your mind about MDA.

Same conditions meaning:
1. Posted available openings - no forcing anyone to the street.
2. Ex ALG/PDT, now furloughed MDA pilots bid for any openings. Mainline APL pilots need not apply.
3. Awards are made according to seniority - current pilots & furloughed ALG/PDT pilots.

You can be certain that some of the pilots didn't want the MDA pilots to return, but what one wants and what is right may be 2 separate things. There were/are many pilots still here that believed the right thing to do would have been to let the ALG/PDT pilots to bid for their return.

Remember those pilots that left ALG/PDT didn't "quit", they were just exercising a clause of our contract.

Also on a side note, as far as I can tell there was/is no provision for any former ALG/PDT pilot to J4J captain seats at PSA. I don't blame any of the PSA pilots for being upset about that.

 

[ponder]

I don't buy into the idea that PDT management kept the former
CEL pilots from flowing back. It was your MEC. And your MEC
was looking out for your best interest, at the expense of their
former coworkers.

 

[NCFlyer]

You are entitled to believe what you want to believe. As a former LEC officer I was involved in many discussions about the issue, some private, some on conference calls, others in open sessions. I can only tell you what I know to have taken place.

Were different things told to others? Possibly.

Were some people trying to promote their own personal agenda? Possibly.

I can not comment on the discussions others may have had.

Were some on the MEC against the flow-back? Yes.

But others were in favor of it. However as I stated in my previous post, PDT management would only entertain the idea of a flow-back to the bottom of the seniority list, not to their previous seniority.

 

[trainer8]

You are entitled to believe what you want to believe. As a former LEC officer I was involved in many discussions about the issue, some private, some on conference calls, others in open sessions. I can only tell you what I know to have taken place.

Were different things told to others? Possibly.

Were some people trying to promote their own personal agenda? Possibly.

I can not comment on the discussions others may have had.

Were some on the MEC against the flow-back? Yes.

But others were in favor of it. However as I stated in my previous post, PDT management would only entertain the idea of a flow-back to the bottom of the seniority list, not to their previous seniority.

What about the August 2005 Flow back proposal the PDT MEC authored? I have a copy. Are you unaware of that?

 

[LearLove]

What about the August 2005 Flow back proposal the PDT MEC authored? I have a copy. Are you unaware of that?

the burning bush.....

and to lighten things up around here:


http://howtoprankatelemarketer.ytmnd.com/

 

[NCFlyer]

What about the August 2005 Flow back proposal the PDT MEC authored? I have a copy. Are you unaware of that?

I'm not sure what proposal you are referring to.

There were many "proposals" going back & forth. Some were for internal use only, others for distribution. I am saying that I don't know of any official MEC proposal that denied any ALG/PDT pilot the right to return to PDT.


If there is I stand to be corrected.

 

[NCFlyer]

and to lighten things up around here:


http://howtoprankatelemarketer.ytmnd.com/

Absolutely hilarious!

 

[trainer8]

I'm not sure what proposal you are referring to.

This would be the 8/26/2005 Flow Through Proposal by the "PDT and PSA MECs." Here is the opening header:

LETTER OF AGREEMENT

Between and among
US AIRWAYS, INC.
and the
AIR LINE PILOTS
in the service of
US AIRWAYS, INC.,
as represented by
THE AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL​

AND​

PIEDMONT AIRLINES, INC.,
PSA AIRLINES, INC.
and the
AIR LINE PILOTS
in the service of
PIEDMONT AIRLINES, INC.,
PSA AIRLINES, INC.
as represented by
THE AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL​

​

FLOW-THROUGH

US AIRWAYS GROUP PILOT EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES
AND FURLOUGH PROTECTION

There were many "proposals" going back & forth. Some were for internal use only, others for distribution. I am saying that I don't know of any official MEC proposal that denied any ALG/PDT pilot the right to return to PDT.

The above mentioned proposal allowed for a Flow back to the respective PWOs. I don't know if it was ever presented to the AAA NC.

T8

 

[NCFlyer]

Sorry I'm not quite sure what you are referring to. Is the above proposal by the PDT MEC to AAA or the other way around and was it officially sent or received?

I ask that because you may remember that the original J4J proposal included the provision that mainline APL pilots were to have all the RJ seats, both C/A & F/O. Only those seats that went unfilled by APL pilots were to be open for bid by the regional carrier's pilots. Of course that proposal was sent back without any consideration and was eventually settled on the 50/50 arrangement.

Also I don't know if I have read the proposal or not, since I'm not sure which 1 it is. Does it in some how restrict ALG/PDT pilots from returning to PDT?

I do know that as recently as the fall of 2006 discussions were still under way as to how the former ALG/PDT pilots could be returned to PDT. Again I was told that the management didn't want to discuss their return if it included their return with seniority. True or false????? But that is what I was told.

Since I no longer serve in any capacity with PDT ALPA all I know comes from public information or with discussions with my reps.