Flops TA

[gutshotdraw]

Lose. Lose your mind.

Red beans and rice! Please learn to spell. You fly a G-String for GunShot's sake!

C'mon flylow....internet Asberger's again?

 

[ultrarunner]

How's that proof-reading going? Any word yet?

 

[rajflyboy]

How's that proof-reading going? Any word yet?

They obviously aren't very proud of this thing. Done 2 weeks ago and they still haven't put it out there!!

 

[GerryG]

They obviously aren't very proud of this thing. Done 2 weeks ago and they still haven't put it out there!!

Or it could be an incredably complex document, nearly 300 pages long, from what I hear, which has lots of loose ends to tie together.

 

[dime line]

They obviously aren't very proud of this thing. Done 2 weeks ago and they still haven't put it out there!!

I guess you havent called anybody to get any answers, hu? Figured you didn't.

 

[993_Pilot]

They obviously aren't very proud of this thing. Done 2 weeks ago and they still haven't put it out there!!

What a troll. They aren't just running the automatic spell check you know.
What is your goal is making statements like this?
At this point, I'm starting to think your just another management troll, probably from another company, who want's the Flight Options pilots to be disappointed in a contract, so you can tell all your own pilots how bad a union is when they come knocking on your door.
Go crawl back under the bridge you've been living under.

 

[rajflyboy]

What a troll. They aren't just running the automatic spell check you know.
What is your goal is making statements like this?
At this point, I'm starting to think your just another management troll, probably from another company, who want's the Flight Options pilots to be disappointed in a contract, so you can tell all your own pilots how bad a union is when they come knocking on your door.
Go crawl back under the bridge you've been living under.

Most of the time the payscales are out within hours. Why haven't you published that??

Sounds like you are afraid to me !!

The FO pilots deserve better work rules, schedules and pay. Hopefully this contract gives the guys that!

Obviously the economy is down and its tuff times right now >>> We all know that!

Unions that are run well are very good for the pilots. Work rules, schedules(fatigue), pay, etc.

 

[x402]

What a troll. They aren't just running the automatic spell check you know.
What is your goal is making statements like this?
At this point, I'm starting to think your just another management troll, probably from another company, who want's the Flight Options pilots to be disappointed in a contract, so you can tell all your own pilots how bad a union is when they come knocking on your door.
Go crawl back under the bridge you've been living under.

Wow, a little sensitive, aren't we? I doubt there is an ulterior motive here, just a ldie curiosity.
I work at NJA and hope your first contract is a strong one. I certainly agree that solid work rules are important.
Best of luck with the process.

 

[rajflyboy]

ahhh

Maybe I shouldn't have posted anything but I just felt that it was appropriate to JERK THEIR CHAIN a little bit considering they are waiting to put this TA out and thus making their pilots wait for another couple of weeks to find out what their futures will be over the next few years.

The pressure will immediately come off the backs of all the pilots the minute the info is put out if this contract is worth a piss. This would be worth its weight in gold for a number of reasons.

Lets hope for the sake of all the pilots that work at Flight Options that this will happen very soon!!

 

[brokeflyer]

dont look at money for the first contract. Look at how long the term is. if its only 2 years than ANY raise is a good one. look at all the work rules they in there. that is whats most important right now. that is the foundation to build on.


u guys and gals deserve a fair contract, i hope this is.

 

[jetwash]

The FLOPS pilots have plenty of patience after these last 3.5 years. A few days to get things right now that there is an agreement is no big deal.

It seems to me that it is only the non-FLOPS pilots are impatient.

Relax everyone.

 

[993_Pilot]

I've seen the summary now, and IMHO It SUCKS !!!!
Not that I don't appreciate the long hours that the negotiations committee spent, but this agreement blows.

I'm Voting a big NO !

 

[brokeflyer]

maybe those greedy management crooks should take a pay cut for a change.

 

[993_Pilot]

maybe those greedy management crooks should take a pay cut for a change.

I don't shiv a git what they do, but I'm not settling for something that leaves me underpaid by 30+%. The "summary" was so underwhelming, that I say send them back to the table, and don't come back until you're F-ing ready to get serious!

 

[brokeflyer]

I don't shiv a git what they do, but I'm not settling for something that leaves me underpaid by 30+%. The "summary" was so underwhelming, that I say send them back to the table, and don't come back until you're F-ing ready to get serious!

good attitude....and that aint a joke either.

If they were all like you, we wouldnt need unions. They would just "make it that way" to begin with.

 

[FR8DOG777]

Or it could be an incredably complex document, nearly 300 pages long, from what I hear, which has lots of loose ends to tie together.

Can you please pass the hookah I would like a hit of that. Never mind, by the looks of things they will have plenty of money for drug testing.

 

[ultrarunner]

this sure doesn't sound encouraging

 

[rajflyboy]

a 10 percent raise after union dues leaves you with a measley 8.6 percent raise

Vote NO

You deserve more!

 

[flydog1]

Why do you care, you don't work here, and you probably haven't even read the whole summary....Education is the key my friend.

 

[rajflyboy]

Why do you care, you don't work here, and you probably haven't even read the whole summary....Education is the key my friend.

You don't need but a 2nd grade math level to figure out that a 10 percent raise doesn't put the guys up to industry standard.

Education >> Ha Ha >> What you really meant to say was "Road Shows" so you can shove this thing down people's throats!

 

[flydog1]

You don't need but a 2nd grade math level to figure out that a 10 percent raise doesn't put the guys up to industry standard.

Education >> Ha Ha >> What you really meant to say was "Road Shows" so you can shove this thing down people's throats!

Road show, really. Shows how much you know.You tell me where there is going to be one at and I'll show up with my boots on.

 

[cougar12]

dont look at money for the first contract. Look at how long the term is. if its only 2 years than ANY raise is a good one. look at all the work rules they in there. that is whats most important right now. that is the foundation to build on.

I agree, But this contract is basically a 5 yr. contract. The first three yrs are fixed. The company can extend it up to two years buy a 3% raise each year. There is no way this contract will not be extended. The company won't waste money to negotiate a raise of less than 3%. I think this is the biggest reason we have to think long and hard before we vote! This extension should have been required to be MUTUALLY agreed on and not solely controlled by the company. This would allow us time to evaluate the SPP provision as well as other aspects of the contract.

 

[waka]

Call me anything you want, everything I've predicted for three years has happened... I could make the list, but proving all of you wrong again just gets repetitive.

Now, you could post your usual inapplicable and stupid logic based on your skewed sense of reality if it makes you feel better. However, you won't be proving anyone wrong but yourself. Your posts are so stupid that you are your own worst enemy.

___________________________________________________

Hey Folks, B19 is too much of an idiot to even be a management plant. If I had hired him to spread propaganda on a pilot forum, I would have fired him long ago for incompetence.

 

[ITFL]

I agree, But this contract is basically a 5 yr. contract. The first three yrs are fixed. The company can extend it up to two years buy a 3% raise each year. There is no way this contract will not be extended. The company won't waste money to negotiate a raise of less than 3%. I think this is the biggest reason we have to think long and hard before we vote! This extension should have been required to be MUTUALLY agreed on and not solely controlled by the company. This would allow us time to evaluate the SPP provision as well as other aspects of the contract.

So we vote it down, what then? The union has said that, based on their analysis of the companies books, there is no more money, that this was the best deal they could get. So you vote the TA down and the negotiating committee goes back to the table, right? Meanwhile we remain at-will employees with no pay raise, or any of the other improvements that are in this TA. With me so far? Ok, then the NMB - because this is what the NMB typically does under these kinds of circumstances - puts negotiations on ice for six months, by not scheduling another bargaining session for a while. Oh, but your thinking, WE WILL STRIKE, no we will not, because the nasty old NMB will not release us to do so. F-ing RLA.

So go ahead, fan the flames on here, get this thing voted down. And when you're sitting in Uncle Bob's office without a just cause provision this summer, you will have your self to blame.

 

[ITFL]

You don't need but a 2nd grade math level to figure out that a 10 percent raise doesn't put the guys up to industry standard.

Education >> Ha Ha >> What you really meant to say was "Road Shows" so you can shove this thing down people's throats!

What does a helicopter pilot know about 2nd grade math?

 

[rajflyboy]

What does a helicopter pilot know about 2nd grade math?

2 + 2 = 4

:laugh:

 

[993_Pilot]

I agree, But this contract is basically a 5 yr. contract....

Unfortunately this probably will end up being a 5 year contract, but the pay and work rules will probably last for 6+ years! Like you said , management will most likely exercise their option to extend to 5 years, and they won't start negotiations until 4-1/2 years. I will be really surprised if it gets settled in 6 months... 18+ months is probably more realistic. The 2nd contract might be retroactive, but you better be ready to live with this contract for longer than 5 years.

 

[Grizz]

So we vote it down, what then? The union has said that, based on their analysis of the companies books, there is no more money, that this was the best deal they could get.

Be careful with that thought process. We heard the same thing in 2004 from our union in the road show for the failed TA. Somehow the company found a lot more money by the time we voted in the CBA in 2005.

 

[ProFracPilot]

Be careful with that thought process. We heard the same thing in 2004 from our union in the road show for the failed TA. Somehow the company found a lot more money by the time we voted in the CBA in 2005.

I agree, Grizz. We all must be careful with our thought process and consider all aspects of the TA - financial and otherwise. That said, the economic environment in which you negotiated your amended contract in 2004 was vastly different than the economic reality we have today in negotiating our first contract.

Anyone who is spouting "10%????" and "STFD" in the same sentence hasn't bothered to read the TA. Period.

 

[cougar12]

Well I have spent 2 days reading and analyzing this contract. There isn't much to brag about (work rules, work rules). For all the bragging about work rules it is pretty much what we have now in writing and it took 3.5 yrs! There are a few QOL improvements and that is about it. I am waiting on some clarifications on a couple of items that may improve my opinion. But so far it appears the Union caved on pretty much everything. The only reason this will be voted in is to have a CBA.