Flops TA

[BeenThereDoneIt]

Sam's will outsource their jobs? Please explain that.

 

[CA1900]

Here you go:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/retail/2010-01-24-wal-mart-sams-club_N.htm


11,200 of those super-secure, non-union workers were kicked to the curb, and their jobs replaced by a contractor.

 

[flydog1]

Good post ca1900. I will be the first to play devils advocate. There are always reasons for union and non-union to argue there sides, just like republicans and democrats. The point is, its better for our company and the union to have a contract in writing. I just don't see how anyone can hate the fact that this has come to a TA. Really, you non-union guys, if you don't like working for a union company now quite. Heaven forbid we got something in writing to better every one. Its not only about the pay and everything else its the fact of having a document that can back up the pilots and work rules.

I have never seen so many trying to piss on a good thing. It looks like the non-union supports are also trying to blame the union for the down turn in the economy too. Well I much rather take a bit less now and have a company to come back to, than took a 3 page contract with more pay and then Flops realized opps..we paid to much and need to furlough more or shut down.

B19 that is what you seem to have a problem with. We should have took the early pay raise and be done. Well, what kind of shape would that have left the company. More layoffs most likely. Now we have something based on today's economy and for improvement towards the future. Why argue against that.

well its late and I'm breaking my rule of posting at certain hours. Lets wait and see what the details are. Thank you to the MEC and the company for getting us something to vote on!

 

[William Holiday]

Flydog is right, maybe some of these negative post have only one intention in mind.....Job security......keep the conflict going by beating down the contract. Thus back to the table for however long.

 

[chainring]

Flydog your exactly right. We have something for todays economy. Hell the offer from 3 yrs ago may even pay more than this one, but that offer had zero work rules and no scope Bob.

Cant figure out why people who dont work for Options are so negative on our TA. If it doesn't affect them when why do they care.

Everyone seems quick to slam if its not Netjets than its a failure.
I think every pilot group has to work for a agreement that works for their situation. When the Netjets guys in 04 felt they were being misled they made changes. And for them at that time it was the right move and I commend them for it. I for one feel that our Union leaders have done the best under probably the hardest of times to negotiate a "first" contract. I dont feel misled and think we have something that works for us and we have still kept a good relationship with the Company mgmt.

I sure dont hear people slamming the AirTran guys for making less than Southwest pilots or slamming Continental pilots for settling for less than UPS.

 

[rajflyboy]

New TA but the numbers aren't out yet??

Yikes >> This can't be good!

 

[Lear70]

I sure dont hear people slamming the AirTran guys for making less than Southwest pilots.

Yeah, they do... just not as much these days as our pilots killed 2 T.A.'s 2 1/2 years ago and the people slamming us backed off, realizing we were going to fight for at least parity with Alaska / JB rates.

Otherwise, yes, people who don't work there shouldn't be so quick to bash. You very rarely get EVERYTHING you want in a first contract after unionizing. Again, make sure you READ it... our BoD outright LIED about what was in the last T.A.'s until I printed a copy, comparatively analyzed it, and published the truth to the pilot group. The T.A. was squashed, the BoD removed and replaced, and ALPA soon replaced the in-house union. Not saying that would happen there, but road shows should ALWAYS publish the good right alongside the bad and let the chips fall where they may.

Best of luck!

 

[ProFracPilot]

Otherwise, yes, people who don't work there shouldn't be so quick to bash. You very rarely get EVERYTHING you want in a first contract after unionizing. Again, make sure you READ it... our BoD outright LIED about what was in the last T.A.'s until I printed a copy, comparatively analyzed it, and published the truth to the pilot group. The T.A. was squashed, the BoD removed and replaced, and ALPA soon replaced the in-house union. Not saying that would happen there, but road shows should ALWAYS publish the good right alongside the bad and let the chips fall where they may.

Best of luck!

This is great insight and advice. The importance of not only READING but UNDERSTANDING all sections of the TA can't be over emphasized.

I don't know that our E-board is going to handle the TA education process with a road show, but they've stated they will "conduct an extensive, interactive educational campaign about the tentative agreement". Will they stipulate both the pros and cons of our first TA during this campaign? I think it would be wise for them to do so, but we'll have to wait and see.

 

[shanes123]

That Walmart greeter is non-union and has a more stable job than any pilot with a union contract.

They are non union..But there smart enough to not hire a Idiot like you!!! Why dont you try TSA there a bunch of bumbling bafoons that have no idea what there doing..But are important in there own mind..You would probably fit in nicely with them..

 

[gunfyter]

Here you go:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/retail/2010-01-24-wal-mart-sams-club_N.htm


11,200 of those super-secure, non-union workers were kicked to the curb, and their jobs replaced by a contractor.

OH MAN! Looks like someone forgot to tell 19 he needs to start looking for a new job! :laugh:

 

[TurboHonda]

Jeez, I thought your ball was black, just like your soul. This was always about more than cash...But you never got that. It was never about the money, but you and your kind continue to try and make it just that.
Good luck....You loose!

You're exactly right. If it was just cash, we'd have taken the appeasement/payoff 3 years ago. But, It wasn't a contract. Whatever they offered then could have been taken away just as quickly and easily as it was given. Work rules would have been whatever they could get the POI to sign off on. FAA regs would have been only a suggestion.

Congratulations to everyone that believed and held on.

No, I'm not from South Dakota.

 

[hydrarkt]

This is great insight and advice. The importance of not only READING but UNDERSTANDING all sections of the TA can't be over emphasized.

I don't know that our E-board is going to handle the TA education process with a road show, but they've stated they will "conduct an extensive, interactive educational campaign about the tentative agreement". Will they stipulate both the pros and cons of our first TA during this campaign? I think it would be wise for them to do so, but we'll have to wait and see.

DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT trust your Eboard!!! Or should I say, trust but verify. Don't believe any statistics or projections that they quote without independent verification. They may all be great guys. But contract negotiations involve back door dealings that nobody will find out about.
One day, your Eboard is touting how great the CBA is. Then, once it's voted in, half of them bail to work for management... something fishy?? Don't think that it can happen to you?

 

[skanza]

Good post ca1900. I will be the first to play devils advocate. There are always reasons for union and non-union to argue there sides, just like republicans and democrats. The point is, its better for our company and the union to have a contract in writing. I just don't see how anyone can hate the fact that this has come to a TA. Really, you non-union guys, if you don't like working for a union company now quite. And I've said if you union guys don't like working for a non-union company - than you quit. Heaven forbid we got something in writing to better every one. Its not only about the pay and everything else its the fact of having a document that can back up the pilots and work rules.

I have never seen so many trying to piss on a good thing. It looks like the non-union supports are also trying to blame the union for the down turn in the economy too. Well I much rather take a bit less now and have a company to come back to, than took a 3 page contract with more pay and then Flops realized opps..we paid to much and need to furlough more or shut down. BS! I've heard a lot of you guys saying that closing the doors is the only option to not "getting what you want" out of a contract. Come on, which is it?

B19 that is what you seem to have a problem with. We should have took the early pay raise and be done. Well, what kind of shape would that have left the company. More layoffs most likely. Now we have something based on today's economy and for improvement towards the future. Why argue against that.

well its late and I'm breaking my rule of posting at certain hours. Lets wait and see what the details are. Thank you to the MEC and the company for getting us something to vote on!

.....

 

[Joe Jet Pilot]

DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT trust your Eboard!!! Or should I say, trust but verify. Don't believe any statistics or projections that they quote without independent verification. They may all be great guys. But contract negotiations involve back door dealings that nobody will find out about.
One day, your Eboard is touting how great the CBA is. Then, once it's voted in, half of them bail to work for management... something fishy?? Don't think that it can happen to you?

We would know......look at BO

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

B19


Just to point out Japan Airlines is non union and hires only at will contract employees. That would be your version of non union utopia. By the way they just filed for bankruptcy. How is that the union's fault? Maybe you can ask BT. He used to work there.


To all the Options pilots except Ed best of luck with the TA. Ed if this TA passes your special deal will end. Maybe BT will offer you another special deal at his next employer.

 

[B19 Flyer]

B19


Just to point out Japan Airlines is non union and hires only at will contract employees. That would be your version of non union utopia. By the way they just filed for bankruptcy. How is that the union's fault? Maybe you can ask BT. He used to work there.


To all the Options pilots except Ed best of luck with the TA. Ed if this TA passes your special deal will end. Maybe BT will offer you another special deal at his next employer.

This isn't my utopia. You need to go for a DOT drug test.

What I've said all along, is that bringing a union onto a property puts the entire company at risk, stagnates the company, costs jobs- both pilot and non-pilot for little to nothing gained at the end.

This is classic, what is happening now is exactly what I said would happen. Just like all the other things you union guys said wouldn't but have.

Had 1108 not been so greedy 3 years ago (NJA being the standard) you would have had a reasonable contract that may have stood up under economic pressure.

Instead, typical union greed got in the way and the FLOPS pilots along with the rest of the company have gone through 3 years of typical union hell, with nearly nothing truly gained in the end compared to what could have been acheived in the beginning.

I just don't see where the non-union fracs have gone through the hell that NJA and FLOPS has over the last three years.

Speaking of utopia, how are those NJA pilots doing with their high cost contract?

I'm still amazed NJW isn't out there talking about all those great benefits and job security that the contract provided.

 

[dime line]

What a Moron.

Bich you lost, your just about out of a job. This contract will be somewhat less than others (and I'm ok with that, the union never promissed us anything), but I will have protections from you, Mays, Kellers, Schtfingers, Mrkrs, and any other morons I forgot about, oh wait the PSMs too.
Good luck 19, break a leg, get into a car accident, get a new job, or just get drunk.

 

[brokeflyer]

im glad to hear this news.

the problem is corporate greed is destroying a lot of companies. managers and CEO's just butt rape a company and the people who actully do all the work so bad they bleed.

unions have nothing to do with any of this. if management would pay employees for the job, they would have this trouble.

 

[fischman]

Speaking of utopia, how are those NJA pilots doing with their high cost contract?
...all those great benefits and job security that the contract provided.

I'm very happy with our pilots, our union, and our CBA. Thanks for asking.

Please tell me how our contract hurts the job security of our pilots? All the CBA does in this regard is maintain recall rights, and protect our own jobs via sell-off protection. The company maintains staffing level at its own discretion. NJASAP has little to no say about it.

But you wouldn't know anything about that would you? You've never read our CBA, but spew out misinformation as if you were an expert. Please don't stop though. Watching you prove your ignorance on a daily basis is the most entertaining thing on FI.com.

Tell me, KB. Why do you care? You've got it made at a non-union company that flies wide body turboprops internationally.

 

[brokeflyer]

lololol fisch.


b19 what you call "greed" we pilots call "climbing out of poverty"

Ive worked both sides and i will tell you that the management side is pure evil. I retired from management at a major and the stories i could tell.....i have no love unions, but i also have no love for management $hitting all over everyone for their own gain.

You say unions are greedy? Ill agree with that, but i'd rather be called gordon gekko than be called a liar. I feel bad that you wish pilots to be so under paid.

treat employees fair, after all they do all the work. and pay them a fair wage and you'll see unions begin to disappear.

simple as that.