Flops Randomly *terminating* Many Pilots !beware!

[TONKER]

Alright, I have read every post on FLOPS since word of the layoffs has come. *Disclaimer these are MY words/opinions and not that of my husband (feel the necessity to add that)*

Now I am unaware of Unions and the power that they may or may not hold, the way they may or may not be able to help, the purpose of the dues paid or not paid, but of all the posts that I have personally read it sounds much more like a High School Clique than anything else.

Not in any of these messages have I heard how the Union has helped or how they can help. Yes, I have read amongst many postings that individuals have donated money to those that are unfortunate and have lost their jobs. I am sorry, but I don't see how that helps the families that are now with a spouse that is unemployed? A father that no longer has security, a mother that can no longer provide that shelter, information to help the family arguments about WTF to do now. ("You can give a man a fish and feed him for a day, or you can teach him how to fish and feed him for a lifetime"). Yes, I will not doubt that the donations are beneficial, but really with this economy what are the laid off pilots supposed to do?

With that being said: back to the High School Clique... All that apparently goes on here is individual bashing and one on one arguments (personal speculation). Where is the informative information that people can actually use as support? People regardless of opinions or affiliations should be entitled to be enraged, pleased, or whatever they choose to be…. NO, apparently the IGNORE list is being used to be ignorant and not listen to others opinions or maybe even a different perspective. People do have different experiences and may have different insight….

I am still new to all of this and really trying to understand. I will not pretend to understand what the Pilots laid off have/are going through; I will not pretend that I understand what the Pilots remaining are going through. I would love to know as “just a Pilot’s wife” what options I have to help those gone as well as those that are still remaining? I would love to know what boards, “cliques”, or groups other than such a judgmental bulletin that I may become a part of to get the facts and not just personal vendettas???


P.S.: Not now or ever will I be “JUST” any thing, but I will support my husband til the end!

 

[dime line]

The UNION gave back all dues (have to be in good standing though)

The UNION as paid for a 1 year membership to AIR INC. and one other pilot job search company, and sent the password to all of FLOPS terminated pilot

The UNION had a teleconfrence for the 70 terminated, with an Ohio Labor guy to explain the Ohio Labor law as it concerns the 70 pilots. Dosent matter where they live, they fall under Ohio Labor.

The UNION FLOPS web site has gobs of networking leads and info on who is hiring. A lot of pilots have been hired already from those leads.

So those are just a few

As I read your post, the way I read it,

The UNION will not pay your mortguage, cable, electric bills. They also will not do a job search for you. Nor are they suppose to.

They, THE UNION (meaning our fellow pilots) have done 800 times more than FLOPS (management)has done to help with pilot questions.


And further more, your post sounds like a calmer B19's wife.

 

[gunfyter]

You mean FLOPS isn't trying to assist former employees they had to let go because of the weak business environment find other employment?

Seems like the humanitarian thing to do.

 

[TONKER]

And further more, your post sounds like a calmer B19's wife.

Not trying to sound like any one else, but I guess I can take that as a compliment .

I am happy to hear that the Union was able to help fellow Pilots and that does stand for something. I just didn't think that the Union has as much pull as it once had, and I really am trying to understand the benefits that it does and/or will provide. With that being said, why is the Union refunding dues? Is that because they can not help those that got laid off in this circumstance or because they are hoping to settle legally?

With being a "wife" what can I do? Where can I go to get a complete understanding or coherent facts (aside from sole opinions or arguments)? Are there organizations, boards, or meetings? Aside from everyone or anyone else's beliefs I like to listen and make my own judgment calls and do what I can or feel I can do to help as an individual.

 

[gunfyter]

The union may have a Family Awareness committee.

 

[TONKER]

The union may have a Family Awareness committee.

Do you know the Union website or how I may do further research?

 

[gunfyter]

No I do not work at FLOPS. Your husband must have access to it.

 

[William Holiday]

Gone.....phishing......

 

[fischman]

Do you know the Union website or how I may do further research?

www.ibt1108.org

If your husband is a dues paying member, then you should be able to get your own user name and password to that site. NJW might have better info on that as I know she is in the same boat as yourself.

Best of luck to you and you family.

 

[TONKER]

Thank you fischman....

 

[Semore Butts]

OK, Now I guess I'm Semore 19?

Is it just me? Or does Tonker sound like B-19 in "Drag".

I hate to be the "a-whole" here, but we are about to that stage and Bafoon 19 is that slovenly.

If your husband is a Flops guy and in the union he should be able to explain to you what the union can do for you.

I'm very surprised that you would not discuss these things with your husband before you come here and ask the questions you did.



For starters, the 70 people would not have randomly been fired at once out of seniority.



It seems to me you should be concerned that your husbands longevity with he company means nothing.

Another point would be Flops has no contract yet. You can plainly see what management is willing to do to keep the pilots enslaved. You aren't gonna see any improvement until their is a contract and your spouse has some rights (which he doesn't have now....Reference 70 people fired out of seniority for no good reason)

As a union Netjets Pilot I have a contract. I have recourse in the event the company doesn't stick with the contract, your husband has nothing, but he is headed in the right direction.

Why am I even telling you this? Youre "Anti-Netjets Wife" arrival is quite a coincidence?

Kind of like when the Army came out with "Firebirds" as an answer to the Navys "Top Gun".

It's bedtime! Bad dreams "Bafoon-19"!

 

[dime line]

Not trying to sound like any one else, but I guess I can take that as a compliment .

I am happy to hear that the Union was able to help fellow Pilots and that does stand for something. I just didn't think that the Union has as much pull as it once had, and I really am trying to understand the benefits that it does and/or will provide. With that being said,

why is the Union refunding dues

? Is that because they can not help those that got laid off in this circumstance or because they are hoping to settle legally?

With being a "wife" what can I do? Where can I go to get a complete understanding or coherent facts (aside from sole opinions or arguments)? Are there organizations, boards, or meetings? Aside from everyone or anyone else's beliefs I like to listen and make my own judgment calls and do what I can or feel I can do to help as an individual.

You have to be out fishing! You can't be serious. If you husband was fired from FLOPS, and if he was in good standing, he would have gotten his DUES CHECK (ya know that piece of paper that you take to a bank and then pay mortguage, cable, phone bills) back already. Something the UNION thought would be of assistance to the 70 FIRED pilots.

 

[TONKER]

Clarification: NOT B19!

Hubby has not been laid off; he is still there and in fear every day....

Yes, we are currently on the fence and really trying to do research....

I have spoke to my husband regarding this, prior to coming here and during (thanks for the consideration though). Understanding that there isn't a contract (and he is just as new to this Union thing as I am) we really don't understand what benefits are provided by the Union at this point. Maybe it is just because it is the negotiation phase, but it seems to be more d@mning then beneficial. Hence the reasoning behind asking for boards or anything else that may be helpful to a newbie......

Call me naive, but I am genuinely trying to get insight from those that have been through this before, those with more knowledge. Not criticsm or ridicule. So I would really appreciate how to better understand. I am not asking for the details, just the references. I can do my own research in my own time, but I do need to know where to start and where to look.

I thought Unions/Teamsters/Brotherhoods were supposed to help one another.... Yet when there is some one that sincerely wants help or insight they get a quick boot???? I have a very difficult time understanding the logic of a "UNION" then, maybe my terminology differs from yours.......

 

[B19 Flyer]

And further more, your post sounds like a calmer B19's wife.

My family was displaced twice Dimeline due to your brethren, so unions aren't her favorite subject. As a full time senior executive though, she "gets" the union problem. Thankfully her industry isn't and never will be unionized.

The lady has legit questions and is entitled to legit answers. You think that unions help. I don't have the same opinion. I've seen more turmoil than I have success and I hated moving both times after the layoffs.

There is nothing but truth in every post I write. You really haven't been around long enough to have experienced a real good union action. Once you do, I'll guarantee when it's over, you'll never admit it publically, but you'll agree in places you won't speak about that the whole process sucked and question if it was really worth it.

 

[imacdog]

B19, are you the F or the H?

 

[Galaxy]

Tonker

You were a mgt tool in 2004 and now you are back for help?
If your "hubby" has been here that long and you are still on the fence about the union..
then.....
there is nothing anyone can do to help you or your family.

I think you are TROLL.
You are likely some mgt tool that just remembered that you had an FI account and gave it to F & H.

 

[gunfyter]

TONKER,

So you are a Pilot's wife and also an employee of FLOPS?

I understand the FEAR then....

Its the goal of management to spread Fear Uncertainty and Doubt during negotiations.

Its amazing how low some will sink to avoid fair working conditions and wages to its workers. Isn't it?

 

[netjetwife]

www.ibt1108.org

If your husband is a dues paying member, then you should be able to get your own user name and password to that site. NJW might have better info on that as I know she is in the same boat as yourself. Best of luck to you and you family.

The eligible pilot must send a PM to the webmaster to arrange for his or her spouse to be granted access to the board. After eligibility is verified the arrangements are made. Spouses must have their own email address that the password is sent to.

The Union message board is a good place to ask questions and gather information. I had been following the NJ board for many months (reading it w/my husband) before I began posting here. When I registered for FI I was already well informed about the Union and how it related to my husband's job as a NJ pilot. This isn't the right place to become educated about Unions. Those who know little about the subject are better off starting in a good library for general information and then turning to their Union leadership for specific information about the Union they ostensibly belong to. I reccommend reading Confessions Of A Union Buster by Martin Levitt.

Tonker, it seems odd that you are asking for guidance here. Why isn't your husband able to answer your questions? To clarify, is he currently a line pilot? Or is he in management? Does he fly for FltOps? We need to know who he flies for and what his job position is to properly advise you. Union boards aren't open to management and in lieu of a complete description about your family's connection to the frac industry some of my fellow posters have assumed that you will have access to a Union message board. Enjoy your research. NJW

PS How did you learn of FlightInfo?

 

[netjetwife]

Do you know the Union website or how I may do further research?

Apparently your husband is not a Union member. Being a non-union employee at a company where a unionized group is negotiating for their first contract would raise a lot of questions. Those questions will understandably be met with suspicion from both sides; thus, I'd use neutral sources--books, articles, etc. I'd definitely compare the compensation package at your husband's employer to the industry standard being sought by the unionized pilots. NetJets and Citation Shares are the best comps. Looking at the NJA pilots' contract will be very educational and will explain the benefit of belonging to a Union, especially when compared to their industry peers who are underpaid and work at a place where their are few protections and no representation.

 

[netjetwife]

Clarification: NOT B19! But you took it as a compliment that you sounded like his wife. Why is that? Hubby has not been laid off; he is still there .... Where is "there" and what is his job?

Yes, we are currently on the fence and really trying to do research.... So what research have you done so far? You have discussed the situation with his fellow workers and their spouses, right? What did they tell you?

I have spoke to my husband regarding this, ... Does he want a contract that ensures the going rate and fair work rules or does he prefer intimidation and exploitation? Maybe it is just because it is the negotiation phase, but it seems to be more d@mning then beneficial. By your own admission, though, you are uninformed. A contract is being hammered out; it's not the pilots' fault that management is dragging their feet and trying to delay the inevitable. Hence the reasoning behind asking for boards or anything else that may be helpful to a newbie...... How long has your husband been "there"?

Call me naive, Your word, not mine. but I am genuinely trying to get insight from those that have been through this before, those with more knowledge. Not criticsm or ridicule. It must be noted that your first post was critical and ridiculing to Union supporters. So I would really appreciate how to better understand. Hhhmmm :erm: Looking back at when my husband was new to NJA, the problem was obvious. I began posting here to explain it to others, not the other way around. I am not asking for the details, just the references. I can do my own research in my own time, but I do need to know where to start and where to look. Try starting with an open mind and talk to the pilots fighting for a contract. Look at what Options pilots are paid compared to their peers at NJA and CS.

I thought Unions/Teamsters/Brotherhoods were supposed to help one another.... Yet when there is some one that sincerely wants help or insight they get a quick boot???? What Local is your husband a member of? Did he contact a Union leader with his request for help? If so, who and when? Did he post a question on the Union message board and get kicked off? This is not the best forum for Union questions but even here you have been given helpful advice so the boot accusation isn't warranted. I have a very difficult time understanding the logic of a "UNION" then, maybe my terminology differs from yours.......

Let's put it to the test, shall we? PM your husband's name and I'll arrange for a Union leader to contact him and personally answer his questions. That's a high degree of Unity by any standard. Judging by your husband the new hires aren't being given enough information regarding the Union, so I'll pass that on to my husband and he can notify the appropriate leaders. Naturally, they will have follow-up questions for your husband. Of course he'll be willing to talk with them so that they can make adjustments, right? BTW, I regularly get PMs here so this will be nothing new, and several pilots posting on this thread can verify that my husband has helped them. If you are "genuinely trying to get insight from those that have been through this before, those with more knowledge" then I should be hearing from you soon. NJW