Flops Randomly *terminating* Many Pilots !beware!

[CaveoFalco]

Guess I'm imagining things from the NJ gas 200/barrel thread on here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultra Grump
I said this back in 2005 about the nature of business and it being in our (NJA's) best interest to drive Flex, CS, and FO out of business. Stand by for the bleeding hearts to whine about how it's bad to do that because pilots would lose their jobs. Boo hoo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CastofThousands
Now NetJets will need to aggressively go after XO Jet.

...and imagining the SEVERAL organizers that claimed a year ago we'd have a contract as good as NJs one minute, and going there 30 seconds later. Don't give me your circular talk / turnaround/ diversionary/ management stooge henchmen BS, ...get a new script, not in the mood

Your early on anti-union and anti 1108 rhetoric is as causal as anything. Instead of waiting a contract to arrive on a silver platter courtesy of 1108 had you gone out and done something about it, things might have been different. IBT 1108 NJA went from nothing to lots in about a year. How long have you been at it? I sat next to one of your pilots once on an airline flight about 9 months ago. He told me with straight face that "FLOPS were going to get what NJA has because I have met Bob Tyler and he is a really good guy and will give it to us". Guess he needs some educating huh?

Your comments from Ultra Grump and Cast of Thousands are out of context and cannot be interpreted as IBT 1108 leaddrship policy - nice try though. Like I said, you have no idea what the leadership of IBT 1108 says, does, or is committed to going forward. Same with NJASAP

Calling me a management stooge pretty funny. Nice diversion from reality. Frankly, I could not care less what mood you are in - it is not relevant to anything.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Ummm...another non reader I see.

 

[CALRepublic]

Voice of reason.

First, I want to wish you and all FLOPS pilots the BEST of luck, one of my dearest friends in the world just got fired. One of the top unions guys, his name is irrelevant.

But don't blame NetJets for your company's failures, your managers are a bunch of f***kups. If NJ gets a chance to kill off FLOPS, our CEO will probably do it, and if things were the opposite, I'm 110% sure your CEO would do the same. This is a COMPETITIVE business....

 

[skyismyoffice]

VOR

Truly sorry to hear about what's going on at FLOPs. Just so you know, there is already a long thread on the NJASAP site about this and many offers of monetary support to our brothers at FLOPs. Quite a few guys are ready to don their uniforms and grab some picket signs for a show of strength at Cayahoga.

I'm sorry you feel you were duped by the NJA pilot group. We are still IBT. And even if we weren't, you can expect help from this quarter.

Hang in there. And direct your anger at those who deserve it, the management stooges who think that they can act like this without consequences.

Thanks for the kind support, but what most of us need is a good job. Got anyone who can help get me another interview with NJA?

 

[netjetwife]

Guess I'm imagining things from the NJ gas 200/barrel thread on here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultra Grump
I said this back in 2005 about the nature of business and it being in our (NJA's) best interest to drive Flex, CS, and FO out of business. Stand by for the bleeding hearts to whine about how it's bad to do that because pilots would lose their jobs. Boo hoo. I have no doubt that I'm one of the "bleeding hearts" UG referred to. I missed that post. Had I read it then, I would have objected and told the board that UG isn't a Union leader and doesn't speak for them. His opinion is his own and is contrary to leadership posts on the NJ board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CastofThousands
Now NetJets will need to aggressively go after XO Jet. Here's the other half of that quote that was made in an economic discussion referring to NJA's ability to compete with a company that has made no secret about wanting to take away NJA business: "Look for NetJets to make a move such as no ferry fees from UAE to UK." Caveo is right that the quote was taken out of context. It had nothing at all to do with Union pilots helping one another and is in no way related to the spurious accusation made by Voice.
....

In regards to UG's misguided opinion. It would be bad for the pilots to work for a company that faced no competition in its industry. Such dominance often breeds an arrogance that results in a take-it-or-leave-it attitude toward salaries. The posts I read (and the conversations I have) with NJ Union leaders and volunteers discussing industry competition focuses on the positive aspect of providing excellent service that results in brand loyalty. The NJ pilots I know want to be proud of their efforts--not ashamed. NJ 1108 and NJASAP leaders concentrate on Union building and improving their company--not destroying the career of fellow pilots.

 

[skyismyoffice]

Voice of reason.

First, I want to wish you and all FLOPS pilots the BEST of luck, one of my dearest friends in the world just got fired. One of the top unions guys, his name is irrelevant.

But don't blame NetJets for your company's failures, your managers are a bunch of f***kups. If NJ gets a chance to kill off FLOPS, our CEO will probably do it, and if things were the opposite, I'm 110% sure your CEO would do the same. This is a COMPETITIVE business....

If it wasn't for the support of NJ we would have NEVER gotten this far. This is by far the sentiment of most FLOPs pilots.

NJ doesn't have to 'kill off ' FLOPs, our management is doing it all by themselves.

 

[Hogprint]

All right VOR, simmer down. I know you want to lash out right now, hell I would too.

NJA has a history of riding in and interviewing/hiring furloughed pilots (Midway, Indy, and a couple of others), so go mix a stiff one, blow off some steam, and remember the vast majority of us support you.

Give this time to play out. Like someone said above, it may be for the best in the end?

 

[cougar12]

Flops mngmt sinks low

I think this is an attempt to reel in the pilots from flying legally. They want pilots to fly unsafe airplanes for 15 hrs a day while trying to get rest in crappy hotels.
The sad thing is, it Will probably work on quite a few pilots. Most off the pilots fired will be forgotten If the union is unable to help them. I am not sure they can.

 

[buckeyes95]

VOR, hate to break the news to you, but FO's is not competition for NJA. FO is to damn small. Nobody wants to see anyone lose their job. Don't blame NJA for the mistakes made at FO. I've been at both places, and FO never had the solidarity that was needed. Best of luck to everyone at FO.

 

[Ultra Grump]

VOR - First, I get the impression that you really like to see your words in type. Fully half of the posts in this thread are from you, and at least once, you quoted yourself for no good reason. You've got issues, bud.

I wonder if our "brothers" at NJ will offer their 'altruistic' helping hand now to those fired....or is their job done now that Flops is all but dead? ...

What, exactly, would you like us to do? People are sending money and offering to suit up and walk informational picket lines with you. What more do you want?

Now that we'll be gone, NJA mgt can go back to setting the scene for taking everything away in the next negotiation, and everyone will be back to square one.

Sorry bro, but if you're gone, so is the anchor dragging down salaries in the fractional industry. EVERYONE pays more than Options. Your argument doesn't wash.

You can keep throwing my quote up there, out of context all you want. It doesn't change the basic fact that all businesses are in competition with others in their industry. In competition, by definition there will be winners and losers. The winners survive, the losers shrivel up and die. Which one is Flight Options, do you think?

It amazes me that you seem to think you know the inner thoughts and desires of the NJA union leadership (which I've never claimed nor pretended to be), yet you don't seem to have a clue what's going on in your own house.



NJW - "misguided?" Seriously? So we should do our best to keep lousy operators with crappy pay in business, to what end? Simply to keep pilots employed? BS. It is unfortunate that the FO management couldn't manage their way out of a wet paper sack, but that's not my problem. MY problem is doing the best job I can for MY company so that MY company remains the leader, and hopefully drives some of the competition out of business. If it happens to be the bottom-feeder of the industry, then that's for the better for the rest of us.

It sucks that people are losing their jobs. The real travesty here is that they're doing it out of seniority at a union shop.

 

[dime line]

there's nothing wrong with posting their names;

MS = Michael Scheeringa
KR = Ken Ricci
Bob R = Bob Reinhold


Whoever is behind this is the lowest of the low.

Oh lets not forget

BB = Bill Bildger

His hands are not clean on this

 

[m4j2t]

How can FO terminate so many without intervention from the IBT1108. It is a Union Shop correct? Have these pilots been paying dues? Sorry to those that have been fired...

 

[gunfyter]

What would stop them from doing so?

Get your copy of "Confessions of a Union Buster".

It all just depends whether they think they will win the grievances and or lawsuit.

And I believe they have fired pilots for union activity in the past and had to pay settlement monies to a few.

But there must be more to it than that. Why the 130 non-pilots?

 

[mabelkitty]

They have to call it 'performance' based. Otherwise, they violated the WARN law - requiring 60 days paid notice before lay-offs.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Don't Hold your breath

Thanks for the kind support, but what most of us need is a good job. Got anyone who can help get me another interview with NJA?

The replies you received (none) speak volumes. Sure...our "brothers" ('rich' as they are by their own gloating all over this board for the past year), are "sure" to come running with jobs, help with Cobra, lawyer assistance, etc. Good luck with that. Oh, yeah, they'll don a uniform at CGF...that'll help.

Instead, the focus will be to turn this into an anti Voice of Reason thread to divert you from what you really want to hear from your "brothers" at NJ.

Our guys are struggling to do damage control, and words mean nothing to them...they need IMMEDIATE ACTION. People have lost their livelihoods with no notice. Someone posted a great post to Airline Pilot Central's Frac board (screen name something with 727 in it) about his experiences and a good way to proceed. http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/showthread.php?t=26649&page=2 (10:14pm post If they can't do it, call IBT HQ in DC and call the press!" B727DRVR )

Telling people they need to get their own lawyers is laughable. These people have paid dues to a UNION SHOP and been terminated randomly. Contract or no contract, these actions (along with many others) are in violation of the RLA...yet have been allowed to continue. Where are all the IBT lawyers? The HIGHLY paid consultants?

It's all a "rah rah yay team" 'brotherhood' until reality sets in and talk is cheap when guys have no way to support themselves and/or their families after years of supporting the union.

If you're really "brothers" REAL help is needed, and NOW.

I suggest anyone with the ability to work ANYWHERE else, and hasn't been fired (yet) QUIT with NO NOTICE (it won't help you anyway, they term EVERYONE immediately to eliminate benefits). ANYWHERE is better.

Think about it.

I am sad for our coworkers, but too many of us (myself included) have known we need to get the f out, but kept sticking it out. This will likely be the best thing that ever happened to us, because we will ALL get better jobs, and as dark as it seems now, we will be RELIEVED when we realize the how good it feels to have that monkey OFF our backs. This will FORCE us to do what we have been avoiding.

Regardless of whether a brother "knight" will ride in to help...don't wait for it, get out there and FIND that job that will liberate you from the oppression of this place. Down the pike if help comes, so be it...in the meantime, you can and will do better, and won't be tagged along by ANYONE dragging ANY carrot.

The FAA needs to position someone new to watch the current operation like HAWKS, esp now.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

But there must be more to it than that. Why the 130 non-pilots?

They are killing 2 birds with one stone...the pilot group, and Cuyahoga co

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=112073&highlight=cuyahoga+airport

"let's see how they feel when we up their unemployment" is likely the theme there.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

B-19 has been strangely silent (I don't see any posts with his screen name and the ignore msg).

Is he fired too, or too busy leading the firing? Anyone seen MS the past few days? Would like to know who the great Oz will end up being, and what other nightmares are in store before I flee

 

[Voice Of Reason]

They have to call it 'performance' based. Otherwise, they violated the WARN law - requiring 60 days paid notice before lay-offs.

So do they have any legitimately signed performance warning in all those files? They can't base it on "productivity" reports which involve matters completely out of a pilot's control, esp in the context of raggidy old airplanes.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Oh yeah...and apply for unemployment IMMEDIATELY (online at your state/local website or FIRST THING Tues)...do NOT delay. Be sure to document the company's response to the labor dept to see if there is any deviation from them terming you.

 

[CA1900]

The replies you received (none) speak volumes.

I haven't had any success getting friends of mine that I've flown with jobs here. How exactly do I help bring an Options guy on?

Sure...our "brothers" ('rich' as they are by their own gloating all over this board for the past year), are "sure" to come running with jobs...

I'm not an employer. I can't give you a job.

...help with Cobra, lawyer assistance...

I've already sent a check to the assistance fund to help get the guys through this. (It's money that would otherwise go towards the mountain of debt I'm living under thanks to the low pay at my last job.) If that help is unwanted, then feel free to send it back.

I'll reiterate what UG said: What, exactly, would you like us as individual pilots to do?